Fiesta Heads

[grjones1]

I am posting this discussion because the issue of FF heads for relacement on ITC Fiestas will soon be readdressed by the CB and perhaps we need to clear the air for those of us who would like to see acceptance.

From my experience and I've looked at, and had machine shops test, at least a dozen federal heads in the last 10 years and all were cracked. Two ways to repair: one costly method of rewelding and machining with no guarantee they would not recrack, and a porcelain coating that lasts a while, but eventually lets go again. We all know the coating is now illegal.

With the acceptance of the aluminum heads for FF (not IT of course), there is a large number of FF cast iron heads available relatively inexpensively on the market. The ports and valve sizes are identical to the federal heads, only the casting (less porosity) and undrilled air injection bosses (which by the rules are plugged anyway) differ.

For the sake of keeping uncracked headed Fiestas in IT, we need to assail SCCA to have the FF heads accepted as legal alternative parts.

Any takers?

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited October 03, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited October 03, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited October 03, 2003).]

[Russ Myers]

Count me in. I've got four Fed. heads, all cracked. I would like to see the Comp board do something. I wouldn't even mind approving the aluminum head, you can get those real easy.

Russ Myers

[grjones1]

Originally posted by Russ Myers:
Count me in. I've got four Fed. heads, all cracked. I would like to see the Comp board do something. I wouldn't even mind approving the aluminum head, you can get those real easy.

Russ Myers

Thanks Russ. Send off an email to your friendly Competition Board with stories of cracked Fiesta heads. I'd like to see the aluminum heads too, but I think that's beyond hope. Plus there are commercial interests at play here. It would give the FF people a place to dump their old iron heads.

It's good to have support.

G. Robert Jones
ITC22
WDC Region
[email protected]
540-972-1996

[MarkL]

Aren't the FF heads ported and therefore illegal for IT ?

[grjones1]

Originally posted by MarkL:
Aren't the FF heads ported and therefore illegal for IT ?

By "ported" if you mean enlarged, the answer is definitely no! They have the same size ports. Identical in other ways such as releived for better flow to my knowledge: no. But others are claiming they have better flow: yet to be proven one way or the other. And if they are releived it achieves no more advantage than the 1" rule allows, i.e. you can remove material 1" from the mounting surfaces legally. (There's hardly an interior surface on the Fiesta head that's further than 1" from a mounting surface.)

Good question Marc and it will be the bone of contention. But from my experience there is no performance difference between the federal head and the FF head other than that the FF head does not crack.

By the way just for clarification: Do not confuse the "big valve" or XR2 head with the FF head- not the same thing. I'm certain others are confusing the two.

GRJ



[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited October 07, 2003).]

[Ted_fiesta]

I recently bought a F production fiesta, it came with several spare heads. The FF head is OK in production class, so is it different, has anybody flow tested both heads? Anyhow the head on my car is FF, the spares are stock ford, I assume they are not cracked.
If the stock heads are prone to cracking then I don't consider the stock heads to be spares, does anybody want my spare heads? I think I have 3 or 4? Some complete some bare.
Perfer somebody come to the Philadelphia area and inspect/make offer. Otherwise they would have to be shipped. Either way if they are cracked you get your money back, but not the shipping. They are heavy to ship....
Also have a set of wheels that I don't really like, gold honey comb.
Anybody know where I can get more ATS wheels, they have 4 large holes, I think they were in some of the pictures in some of the BAT catalogs.

TED Heinritz

[Mike Graves]

Forgive my ignorance, but where exactly do the US Fiesta heads crack? I'm not an IT racer, but I have an '80 Fiesta "S" model that I just started autocrossing last summer.
-Mike

[grjones1]

Originally posted by Mike Graves:
Forgive my ignorance, but where exactly do the US Fiesta heads crack? I'm not an IT racer, but I have an '80 Fiesta "S" model that I just started autocrossing last summer.
-Mike
Mike,

The porosity cracks that we have found on two occasions have occured twice on the topside of the head between the valve spring seats of valves 7 and 8, that is towards the front of the engine and of course beneath the valve cover. We have also found cracks on the surface between exhaust ports 3 and 4 and in various places internally along the water jackets. Also the bosses for the exhaust header lugs or bolts (whichever you use) have a tendency to crack along their tops and of course the stud or bolt threads will strip out.
In the case of the water jacket cracks, we used a porcelain coating to repair the problem and it worked for a good while but now in IT that less expensive fix is illegal ("no internal coating")
Either the casting of these heads was originally flawed or the extra heat the federal head was subjected to with the required air injection for emissions control caused them to become brittle. For whatever reason they are not the most dependable item you can use in competition.

By the way, there's no difference between an "S", Ghia, or Standard Fiesta motor. The "S" gave you a rear sway bar, maybe heavier road springs, bigger tires, a tachometer, side stripes, and black paint around the windows.

G.Robert Jones


[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited November 19, 2003).]

[Mike Graves]

Thanks for the info.
My Fiesta's motor has been upgraded with an XR2 carb, Bosch electronic distributor, and a tri-Y header. I recently bought a couple of European XR2 intake manifolds, but have not had the time to install one. My Fiesta also has Bilstein shocks and struts, heavier lowering springs, and 22mm swaybar. Here's a pic. Yes, you either love or hate the color... :^) http://forum.thefiesta.co.uk/uploads/post-10-1058390530.jpg

[FiestaFrank]

Yes the cracking is due to the addition of the air injector passages. In simple terms, you try to keep a constant material thickness whenever developing an automotive part, especially when it heat cycles. All materials grow and shrink when the get hot and cool and this growth can be exactly calculated by a certain factor (ie a 1" part grows but a 2" part grows twice as much). If a part has uneven wall thickness the expansion difference between the varying thicknesses can cause extreme stress (the part "must" grow, it cannot be avoided). The european head had even casting thicknesses (good) but when they drilled the passages for the air injectors it caused a few areas where the wall thickness was relative small. The resultant stresses cause cracks to form around the middle 2 exhaust valves.

[grjones1]

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Thanks for clarifying the problem Frank.
G

[Quickshoe]

I know this is an old thread but I just came across it and have $.02 to add.

The FF heads can be ported. Here are the FF rules regarding the heads:

FCS.D.2.c "Cylinder head. Ports may be reshaped by the removal of metal as long as the port diameter at the manifold face of the head does not exceed the following dimensions: Inlet 1.50" Exhaust 1.16" "

Clarification on edit--FF rules cont'd:

"The use of the Pierce aluminum cylinder head is permitted."



[This message has been edited by Quickshoe (edited March 04, 2004).]

[fiestadude]

Quikshoe:

I am getting in late on this as well, but are you saying that an Alluminum head on a Fiesta?

Let me know if I have read this wrong.

Thanks,



------------------
JJ
#62 ITC

[Quickshoe]

No. I was stating the FF rules. Sorry it wasn't clear.

Before you guys (IT racers) went shopping for FF heads I wanted you to know that the ports might be reshaped.

[grjones1]

Originally posted by Quickshoe:
No. I was stating the FF rules. Sorry it wasn't clear.

Before you guys (IT racers) went shopping for FF heads I wanted you to know that the ports might be reshaped.

The FF guys can port according to their rules like the IT guys can port i inch from a mounting surface. But we are talking about the head as it comes from the manufacturer. It's referred to as a FF head in this country, but I beleive it is simply a European head made for European Fords. It comes "unported" with the same size ports as a stock Fiesta.
I understand that if we buy it from an individual it may have been ported for that indvidual's prior use, but that's true for any used head for any car.
Frank straighten me out on this if I have it wrong.
GRJ

[grjones1]

Originally posted by Quickshoe:
No. I was stating the FF rules. Sorry it wasn't clear.

Before you guys (IT racers) went shopping for FF heads I wanted you to know that the ports might be reshaped.

But IT can port also to 1-inch from the mounting surface. And the fact that a used FF head might be illegal according to what the previous owner may have done to it is true for any motor.
Appreciate the thought, but the fact that the FF guys can port their heads more than we can does not preclude use of a "FF" head which comes from the manufacturer with the same size ports as a Fiesta head.

I'm being overly sensitive because obviously I want us to be able to use a decent head and I feel obligated to answer all arguments.

GRJ

[Quickshoe]

In the context of a "FF" head being a new head, no problem. I just wanted to throw it out there before everyone got "killer deals" on used FF heads. We can't port match 1" in like you can in IT, but we can do whatever we want between .000001 in and the backside of the valve.

Just a friendly heads up, not trying to start any arguments.


[This message has been edited by Quickshoe (edited March 07, 2004).]

[grjones1]

Originally posted by Quickshoe:
In the context of a "FF" head being a new head, no problem. I just wanted to throw it out there before everyone got "killer deals" on used FF heads. We can't port match 1" in like you can in IT, but we can do whatever we want between .000001 in and the backside of the valve.

Just a friendly heads up, not trying to start any arguments.


[This message has been edited by Quickshoe (edited March 07, 2004).]
No argument intended. Thanks for your concern.
GRJ