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Jiveslug
01-30-2003, 09:47 PM
Ok, heres one. As I get closer to crunch time, Im ruling out certain cars and more or less have myself down to 4. 2 of them are outside shots and the Mustang is the leader right now. HOWEVER, I cant ignore that I can find lots of cheap, good condition EGTs out here. SO, I was wondering what everyone thought was the best ITB Ford. I know the Mustang can be quick, but what about the EGT? Which car is best for performance potential, reliability, and cost/maintenance? Id really like to get some good opinions here. Thanks again everyone!

Ryan

jericker
01-31-2003, 12:05 AM
Ryan, I have to put my two cents worth in here although I'm sure you will get far more technical and thus better opinions. I have an ITB EGT which will begin its 6th season. I have spent countless thousands of dollars on parts which didn't work because there is no after market sources for anything. I have trialed and errored countless times, but keep trying. I now have a car that is worth about $25,000 to me and about $1,000 to everyone else. I have begged and groveled to get race shops to make things for me. I have had countless hours under the car measuring while trying to explain something to somebody on the phone. I have sent parts back only to have them returned and billed anyway. All that said and done, I love my EGT and it now is as fast as most of the ITB cars out there. I have had virtually no DNF's and the two I had last year involved a cut right front tire which sidelined me at turn 11 Mid Ohio and a broken coil wire exiting the keyhole at Mid Ohio. The cars are very reliable and almost indestructable (black EGT rest in piece!). I finished second in CenDiv points last year (sounds better than it was) and have done even more development over the winter and am ready to go for the championship this year. I feel like I have paved a path for anybody else who wants to build an EGT and I'll be happy to share any and all information that I can with anybody. I'd love to see somebody build an EGT even better than mine and lord knows I'm not a very good driver so somebody who can drive may be even more competetive than me. I think a much easier choice of cars is the Mustang. Even easier than that would be to get a VW Golf. Both of these cars have ample aftermarket support and both are very competetive cars. I'm sure you know that you can pick up any catalog like Summit Racing and get any 2.3L motor stuff you need. Many places like Racer Walsh have bunches of specialty parts that they have developed through the years too. I hope this is some of the kinds of information your looking for. Like I said, if you decide to do a EGT, I have a bunch of stuff that I've done to my car and would share anything with anybody. Good Luck.

Joe Craven
01-31-2003, 04:22 AM
Best ITB Ford?

If you mean, fastest ITB Fords, I'd have to give my vote to either the 71 Capri or 71 Pinto. They are very light at 2230 to 2300 lbs respectively and they have the 2.0L motor which can be massaged to put out 140HP in IT trim.

lateapex911
01-31-2003, 05:13 AM
Originally posted by Joe Craven:
Best ITB Ford?

If you mean, fastest ITB Fords, I'd have to give my vote to either the 71 Capri or 71 Pinto. They are very light at 2230 to 2300 lbs respectively and they have the 2.0L motor which can be massaged to put out 140HP in IT trim.

Is that 140 rear wheel HP? Or crank? And what do you guys think the Volvos put out? And how about the hp of the new A3 VW comimg to town?



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

joeg
01-31-2003, 10:05 AM
Jive--Heed Jon's advice!!

I run an ITC version of the EGT and development is the word.

It is not as "popular" a car as the Mustang and this means a lot.

I think the CVH engine is a lot better in design than the 2.3, but they are both reliable powerplants.

A Capri is a good car, but very old. Old cars are tough projects in a class that is not "anything goes". You will still need some OEM parts--good luck in finding them for a 20 year old car, let alone a 30+ year old car.

A Pinto, while not as old as a Capri, is not quite up to Mustang in terms of refinement.

Frankly, I don't know what is the "best" ITB Ford is. Just consider all the Pros and Cons.

Cheers.

Jiveslug
01-31-2003, 02:19 PM
Yeah, thats more or less what I figured Joeg. Im feeling that the Mustang is the front runner for me because of the factors that Mr. Rieker mentions. I have a bit of a familiarity with the FOX cars and am looking for something relatively simple to run for my first car. ALTHO, Mr. Craven, (too many Joes here...) I saw that you had mentioned on another thread that someone you know is selling an ITB Pinto. Is that still the case?? If I could get a great deal on a pre-built car, this may all be a moot point. hehe. And in regards to what I mean as the "best" ITB Ford, Im looking for more of a balanced package. A car that is the best blend of simplicity, speed, and cost.

Ryan

Joe Craven
01-31-2003, 11:42 PM
Ryan, the Pinto I referred to is a later model Pinto which has to weigh 2490 pounds and it has the carburated 2.3. Pinto parts are probably getting hard to get and compared to the earlier models, the car is heavier and the motor makes less hp. Of course, it has more mid range torque but I've never seen one that breathed well at high rpm so my Capri just dust them down the straights.

The Mustang is a nice car but it has to weigh a porky 2640 pounds. It is a credit to Marcello that he performed so well with what appears to be a definite underdog.

The parts availability for Capri's is actually quite good. There are at least 3 companies that I know of in the US that specialize in Capri parts and one of them used to race Capri's and they stock rear end gears, limited slips, sway bars, bushings, Koni shocks etc. In addition, the car has a cult following in the UK and Europe so many parts are still manufactured for them there.

http://www.teamblitz.com
http://www.capri-engineering.com/
There is another business in Denver Co that is specializing in NOS and Vanir Technology parts for these cars.

If you need motor parts, there is Racer Walsh, Esslinger, BAT who have parts for the 2.0 . The motor was used until very recently in the Sports 2000.
http://www.batinc.net

I just sold my '73 ITB Capri to a guy in Phoenix Ariz. http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rscapri2600/lst...TBcapri&.view=t (http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rscapri2600/lst?.dir=/73ITBcapri&.view=t)

This car is about 5 minutes for my house and for sale in the classifieds of this website
www.gogogear.com/capri.htm (http://www.gogogear.com/capri.htm)
He's asking $2500 and it is pretty and almost ready to race.

Here is my current Capri if you are interested - however it is not for sale.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rscapri2600/lst...B+Capri&.view=t (http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rscapri2600/lst?.dir=/1971+ITB+Capri&.view=t)

Looking at the cars and estimating flywheel hp.
year car weight estimate hp
(flywheel)
71 Pinto 2230 140
71 Capri 2300 145
77 Pinto 2490 130
80 Mustang 2640 150

Of course, I've left off the Escort, Bobcat, Mustang II so perhaps others can chime in.

SilverHorseRacing
02-01-2003, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by Joe Craven:
The Mustang is a nice car but it has to weigh a porky 2640 pounds. It is a credit to Marcello that he performed so well with what appears to be a definite underdog.


Thanks Joe, but I'm telling everyone here, the new car is going to prove that the Mustang isn't the "underdog" I've always thought it was.(I know you meant that as a compliment, thanks http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif ) It's not that we're spending gobs of $$ either, it's just that I'm starting with a clean sheet using all the data that #88 gave us through the years, and the combo should be good. Now if only we could get the damn thing assembled! I really have to say that any car you pick can be close to the front, given enough development, time, and driver talent. I like Mustangs, and even though I know going in I have a weight issue, I just work the strengths of the car, and drive the wheels off of it to compensate. Funny part was, we always did well in endurance races, where a lot of the "high strung" race cars would give up the ghost way before the end...leaving us and the other survivors to finish well. Anyway, just do your homework, spend your $ wisely, and get the maximum seat time you can afford, even at the expense of go-fast parts. You'll be surprised how much faster the car goes just by tightening the "nut behind the wheel". HTH

BTW- New pictures are up on my website, not anything earth shattering yet, but you can see the construction getting underway. Enjoy!

------------------
-Marcello Canitano
www.SilverHorseRacing.com (http://www.SilverHorseRacing.com)

[This message has been edited by SilverHorseRacing (edited January 31, 2003).]

manny
02-01-2003, 09:30 AM
just my .02. marcello is correct, the mustang is'nt the fastest one out there but you build what you like and you work it.i do race a mustang also and i love it.half the fun is developing the car and most important is SEAT TIME.i have seen marcello go from a rear of the pack car to a top 5 runner, i too will be there(i hope). hey marcello are you going to paint the car red n white like on your wedsite? see you at sebring.

joeg
02-01-2003, 11:00 AM
Joe--I go through the same "parts hunts" for an ITC Escort, and it is at least 10 years newer than the Capri.

Lots of stuff in England; little OEM left here in the States and even the NOS houses are getting light on parts. (I know because I buy them up!)

Shipping from the UK is a killer, even though the merchants are all great to deal with.(Burtons, Tweeks,AVO UK, etc.--BAT abandoned the Escort last year).

Overall, while I enjoy it (as clearly do you) and have the finances to go on parts hunts, it is not something I would recommend to someone getting into the sport.

Cheers

wayno
02-02-2003, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by Joe Craven:
Ryan, the Pinto I referred to is a later model Pinto which has to weigh 2490 pounds and it has the carburated 2.3. Pinto parts are probably getting hard to get and compared to the earlier models, the car is heavier and the motor makes less hp. Of course, it has more mid range torque but I've never seen one that breathed well at high rpm so my Capri just dust them down the straights.

The Mustang is a nice car but it has to weigh a porky 2640 pounds. It is a credit to Marcello that he performed so well with what appears to be a definite underdog.

The parts availability for Capri's is actually quite good. There are at least 3 companies that I know of in the US that specialize in Capri parts and one of them used to race Capri's and they stock rear end gears, limited slips, sway bars, bushings, Koni shocks etc. In addition, the car has a cult following in the UK and Europe so many parts are still manufactured for them there.

http://www.teamblitz.com
http://www.capri-engineering.com/
There is another business in Denver Co that is specializing in NOS and Vanir Technology parts for these cars.

If you need motor parts, there is Racer Walsh, Esslinger, BAT who have parts for the 2.0 . The motor was used until very recently in the Sports 2000.
http://www.batinc.net

I just sold my '73 ITB Capri to a guy in Phoenix Ariz. http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rscapri2600/lst...TBcapri&.view=t (http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rscapri2600/lst?.dir=/73ITBcapri&.view=t)

This car is about 5 minutes for my house and for sale in the classifieds of this website
www.gogogear.com/capri.htm (http://www.gogogear.com/capri.htm)
He's asking $2500 and it is pretty and almost ready to race.

Here is my current Capri if you are interested - however it is not for sale.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rscapri2600/lst...B+Capri&.view=t (http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rscapri2600/lst?.dir=/1971+ITB+Capri&.view=t)

Looking at the cars and estimating flywheel hp.
year car weight estimate hp
(flywheel)
71 Pinto 2230 140
71 Capri 2300 145
77 Pinto 2490 130
80 Mustang 2640 150

Of course, I've left off the Escort, Bobcat, Mustang II so perhaps others can chime in.



Joe, Could you put me in touchwith the guy in Phoenix that bought your '73 ITB Capri? I'm currently running a '73 ITA version and sure would like to talk to him. Thanks. My email is [email protected]

------------------
Wayne Briggs
CenDiv
ITA Capri

MarkL
02-03-2003, 02:32 PM
I will sell my 1980 Mercury Bobcat to anyone who will actually race it, since it looks like I'm NEVER going racing again! (Gee, thanks, Honey.)

I have some minor spare parts and an extra engine. It will probably need a new cage or at least some updates, since the regs have changed.

I'm in the Detroit area.

jericker
02-04-2003, 01:16 AM
MarkL, can you send some more information on your Mercury Bobcat to [email protected] I might be interested in seeing what it looks like.

Joe Craven
02-04-2003, 03:03 AM
jericker,
Good to hear of your EGT progress. I wonder when the last time a Ford has won an ITB championship. I'm going for the '03 ITB championship in Norpac. Hopefully, you and I can do well and get our Ford's some respect.

Jake, my hp estimate is at the crank. I'll be taking my car to the dyno when I get a chance so I can report some real numbers. I just bought one of those dash G Analyst type of things so I should have a fairly good idea after this weekend. I hear that the Volvos put out about 160/170 HP. Since they have to weigh 2640lbs, that gives a weight/hp ratio of 2640/165 or
16 lbs/hp
If my Capri puts out about 145hp, I'd have
2300/145 or
16 lbs/hp so power output is similar. The Volvo has a better suspension and brakes so theoretically, it may be ultimately faster. The Mustang probably will outhandle and out brake the Capri too, but it is saddled with a slight weight/power penalty.

Ryan, if you are really interested in the Pinto, I'll get you in contact with the owner. It has ran 2.02s at Sears Point in the past, which is about 2 seconds off the record so it can go fast in the right hands.

I completely agree about racing what you like. I love the Capri, and I'll do the best I can given it's strengths and weaknesses. Victory is made all that more sweeter. BTW, I also race a VW GTI 1st gen and it's a sweet ride that handles and brakes well. I understand where 10 years of development went when I switch from the rear drive leaf spring Capri into the front drive 4 wheel independent suspension of the GTI.

Joe Craven
71 ITB Capri all the way in '03

Racescort
02-04-2003, 09:47 AM
Check this buy and sell area. There is a Mustang and trailer for sale. http://www.waterfordhills.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=8

------------------
Doug
ITB Escort
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by Racescort (edited February 04, 2003).]

baileydl
02-05-2003, 11:57 PM
Well, I'll throw my two cents in naturally for the Mustang. Just look at the production numbers! Odds are on your side to find a donor 87-93 Mustang any day of the week--and for less than a $500 in many cases.

With a Mustang as your base, you'll spend 2x more money on replacing tires every season than you will replacing your car's parts. And that's if you have a DNF every weekend. At least, that's my theory.

I'll let you know how it works out for me after my first season. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

Sincerely,

Don

Dick Elliott
02-06-2003, 09:39 PM
Here's one for you. How about a 74 Pinto with a 2000 engine.Only year for 2000 and 2300 engines. Big brakes / widest track in IT-B / Tons of parts at (Ford Pinto. Com) / all parts are still cheap / body parts interchange all the way to 78. Try it-you'll like it. Cheap racing at its best.