Removing interior panels

[Marcus Miller]

Hello all,
Can I legally remove the two interior panels covering the taillight housings? (First gen ITA car)
I think its covered by D.9.F or D.9.G in the ITCS, but I'm not sure....

thanks!
Marcus

[Dick Elliott]

MARCUS! I've removed those panels on every car since 84 and no one said a word. Go for it. When are you going to race the new RX-7? Take a look at www.russmarshall.com (http://www.russmarshall.com) and look at where his panhard bar is. Couldn't be any lower. Off track would be a big no-no. Never had any problems with the KC boys, so don't sweat it. When are you going to update your web site with pictures of the new car? DICK.

[ddewhurst]

Opp's http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by ddewhurst (edited July 23, 2005).]

[ddewhurst]

Question by Marcus..........

***I think its covered by D.9.F or D.9.G in the ITCS, but I'm not sure....***

Response by Dick.............

***I've removed those panels on every car since 84 and no one said a word. Go for it.***

Real rule response by David....

As you suggested Marcus. Part of Rule 9.F. reads: "All other interior trim panels, except the dashboard may be removed." Please see trim in the GCR glossary. Yes you may according to the rule/glossary remove your stated trim panels.

Building by monkey see, monkey do method is not the sound legal method of building a race car. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

I am very curious how many races the Russ Marshal car did before the Panhard /frame went South. Where is Russ from ? The Southeast ?

His car is toasted from Drivers side towards the passengers side. My toasted 1st gen from July 10th at the Farm is toasted the opposite way Passenger towards the drivers side. Anyone have a clue what the cost was if it was paided for ?

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David

[Marcus Miller]

Thanks Guys!

Dick, I'm not sure! I've got to do some work to fix the front air dam, and go through the whole car. It also looks like it leaking copious amounts of oil. Depending on where the leak is, I'm hoping to have it ready for a test day in the beginning of September.

I've seen Russ' site, that is insanely low!
IIRC he is in the south east.
I thin kin one of Rus's writeup on his crash he mentioned how much it was.

Marcus

[Marcus Miller]

and some pictures of it, alongside my P7:
http://gcrall.miller-motorsports.com/image...asp?fldr=RX%2D7 (http://gcrall.miller-motorsports.com/images/Default.asp?fldr=RX%2D7)


Marcus

[Dick Elliott]

MARCUS! I've seen your new car run and it was very fast at the time. I see its got a knee bar. Hope your small. I see your Pro7 car has the dash bar up high. Good place if your like me and carry your own lead weights. Car was a front runner when I saw it. Should work for you very well. LOL, DICK.

[Marcus Miller]

Really? That's phenonmenal! Anything else you can tell me about it?

Full disclosure time:
I bought it off the Itforums classifeds page from John Reisert (user:"reisertracing" here on the IT forums). The transaction was smooth and painless on my end, thanks john!)

What I know about that car:
I know the late Jay Shadoan owned it, and it was a class champion at some point in its life.
I know Charlie Clark built it, or had a hand in building it.
Its obviously been crashed at least once in its life, hard. (The driver's side floor pan is bowed pretty good.)

Parts:
It has what looks like it has an ISC (could be kcraceware) 3rd link and what looks like a GC panhard rod. Tokico fronts and bilstein rears. Long dual primary exhuast, merging over the axle with an unknown brand of header.
It has a dual coil ignition that bypassses the dist cap on the leading. I'm still trying to figure out if this is legal (help?).
Safety devices cage, with some scary looking front footers. Maybe I'm worried about nothing, but I'm not sure how it would pass tech.
It has an ATL fuel cell - I'm not sure on the tech issues regarding cells (Isn't there a 5 year limit on foam? or is the entire cell?)
unknown spring rate, but its very stiff. much more stiffly sprung /damped (in the rear mostly) than my p7 car.

And that's it.

I'm aiming to have it done for the NASA 25 hours of Thunderhill, but it's going to be close. My bank account is not unlimited...

Marcus

[Marcus Miller]

Dick, I forgot about the knee bar.

I carry my own lead weight! I love the high bar in the P7. I'd like ot move to a high bar style on the ITA car when my new cage is built, but the dash and such has already been cut for the low style.

Marcus

[ddewhurst]

***It has a dual coil ignition that bypassses the dist cap on the leading. I'm still trying to figure out if this is legal (help?).***

14.1.4.D.1.e.: Any ignition system which utilizes the original distributor for *spark timing* and *distribution* is permitted. Internal distributor components and distributor cap may be subsitiuted.

Do you adjust your *lead timing* with the distributor ?

Is your *spark distribution through the distributor cap with the plug wires attached to the cap* ?

If you answer YES to both these questions you are legal to the rule in my humble understanding of the rule. Many people don't touch this rule/conversation with a 10 foot pole.

I hope others post their understanding of the ruel. We all know of people who distribute this rule.

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David



[This message has been edited by ddewhurst (edited July 24, 2005).]

[Marcus Miller]

Leading timing (I believe) is still adjusted via the distributor; I am still trying to figure out how it works...

The trailing wire spark are still dristibuted via the cap. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif


Marcus

[Dick Elliott]

Crash couldn't be much worse than Russ's, and it got fixed. Cell life is only a recommendation by ATL. Pull the foam out and look at it. You'll know when it needs replacement. It'll start falling apart sooner or later. If it has dual pick ups, use both of them into a Moroso "Y" fuel block. Always did this and never had a problem sucking air in the turns. DICK.


Originally posted by Marcus Miller:


Its obviously been crashed at least once in its life, hard. (The driver's side floor pan is bowed pretty good.
It has an ATL fuel cell - I'm not sure on the tech issues regarding cells (Isn't there a 5 year limit on foam? or is the entire cell?)


Marcus[/B]

[benracin]

I've got a question about the black car in the photos and I need a little rule clarification. In the photo you have the knee bar going across the dash which has had the lower middle part of the dash cut off and removed. Is this legal because of the bar, or is it not legal because, although the bar is there it's only legal to modify it, not get rid of it?

Let's just say I know a guy who knows a guy who's really looking for a way to not go and buy a whole new dash. I know I've seen cars both ways several times so someone has got to have an argument for both. Sort of like this photo, but not really, I do have gauges in that part of the dash, so there is the argument about modifying the dash for gauges.

[Speed Raycer]

Marcus... It's called Direct Fire Ignition. There's plenty of info on it over at www.mazspeed.com (http://www.mazspeed.com) in the forums and the legality has been hashed through a little here on IT.com a couple of years back...

------------------
Scott Rhea
It's not what you build...
it's how you build it
http://www.izzyscustomcages.com/images/IzysLgoSm.jpg (http://www.izzyscustomcages.com)
Izzy's Custom Cages (http://www.izzyscustomcages.com)

[Dick Elliott]

Direct fire uses 3 coils doesn't it? Marcus said his car has dual coils. Sure sounds like direct fire though. Don't think 3 coils is legal. Maby the third one is hid under the dash with the NO2 bottle. DICK.

[theenico]

I put the fuel cell in that black car in the fall of 2000. jay was a nice guy and a heck of a driver.

------------------
Nico Prelogar

[Dick Elliott]

MARCUS! Ever talked to these guys? www.rx3mist.com/ (http://www.rx3mist.com/) 150+ in a stock body RX-3 in the 1/4. There out in your area.DICK.

[Dick Elliott]

I had an ATL cell in my GT-2 RX-7 that was almost 20 years old and it never leak'd a single drop. Ever winter, I would remove the foam, flush out the cell with a ton or so of water, wipe it out, let it dry all winter, put it back together and race. Worked for me (ATL told me to do it that way) DICK.


Originally posted by theenico:
I put the fuel cell in that black car in the fall of 2000. jay was a nice guy and a heck of a driver.

[ddewhurst]

***Don't think 3 coils is legal.***

14.1.4.D.1.e.: *Any ignition system* which utilizes the original distributor for spark timing and distribution is permitted.

Check the GCR glossary for the defination of *ignition system* & IMHU any number of coils may be used.

Have Fun ; )
David

[ddewhurst]

***In the photo you have the knee bar going across the dash which has had the lower middle part of the dash cut off and removed. Is this legal because of the bar, or is it not legal because, although the bar is there it's only legal to modify it, not get rid of it?***

Ben, I'll do a little guess work on the high roll cage cross bar at the dash. The car is a 1984 or 1985 & by rule we are required to leave the lower portion of the DASH that continues around the shift levrer. If ya order a dash the part around the shift lever is one piece with the dash.

Marcus, is the car with the lower roll cage cross bar at the dash one from the years 1981 through 1983 ?

Now a question to Marcus, Scott or anyone else with FACTUAL knowledge. Is the lower stuff that attaches around the shift lever on a 1979/1981 through 1983 a continous part of the dash or is the part that attaches around the shift lever a seperate panel from the dash ? I know for FACT that the part that is around the shift lever on 1984 & 1985 cars is a continious part of the dash.

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David

[benracin]

Please say it's an 83!

[benracin]

Actually, I just checked the parts PDF and I can say that, from what I've seen, on an 81-83 (didn't check other years) that part is two seperate parts. So if Marcus's car is like mine ('83), he's in the clear!

Yeah baby.

[steve s]

that setup of the distributor does not utilize the dis. for distributing the high voltage power to the plugs.
it's illegal .

------------------
steve saney
it-7 /it-a #34

[Speed Raycer]

Hmmm... anyone have a definition of how a distributor "distributes" especially when the cap and rotor are free? > http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

[ddewhurst]

14.1.4.D.1.e.: Any ignition system which utilizes the original distributor for *spark timing* and *distribution* is permitted. Internal distributor components and distributor cap may be subsitiuted.

The rule spec's you adjust your *lead timing* with the distributor ?

The rule spec's *spark distribution through the distributor cap with the plug wires attached to the cap* ?

GCR Glossary defination of Distributor Cap: "An ignition system distrubitor component which contains the *high voltage distribution contacts* and *means for securing the high voltage wires*." IMHU high voltage wires equals coil & plug wires which SHALL be connected to the distrubitor cap. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David

Ben, ol buddy I'm trying to support your effort so that you spend munimal $$$ to make/keep your car legal. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif

[Marcus Miller]

Originally posted by Speed Raycer:
Marcus... It's called Direct Fire Ignition. There's plenty of info on it over at www.mazspeed.com (http://www.mazspeed.com) in the forums and the legality has been hashed through a little here on IT.com a couple of years back...


Thanks Scott,

I saw the legality discussions in my search, but never anything concrete (They were nearly identical to this convrsation unless I missed a thread)

[Marcus Miller]

Originally posted by Dick Elliott:
Crash couldn't be much worse than Russ's, and it got fixed. Cell life is only a recommendation by ATL. Pull the foam out and look at it. You'll know when it needs replacement. It'll start falling apart sooner or later. If it has dual pick ups, use both of them into a Moroso "Y" fuel block. Always did this and never had a problem sucking air in the turns. DICK.


Thanks Dick, I have yet to crawl around under the rear of the car. It looks like it has dual Fuel pumps and the cell should have dual pickups. Nico might actually be able to tell us more http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

Marcus

[Marcus Miller]

Originally posted by Dick Elliott:
Direct fire uses 3 coils doesn't it? Marcus said his car has dual coils. Sure sounds like direct fire though. Don't think 3 coils is legal. Maby the third one is hid under the dash with the NO2 bottle. DICK.
Sorry, It has three total, dual leading, single trailing.

Marcus

[Marcus Miller]

Originally posted by theenico:
I put the fuel cell in that black car in the fall of 2000. jay was a nice guy and a heck of a driver.



Very cool! I understand he was very well regarded. I'm tryign ot build a history for the car, (log book should be here soon) If you have anything else you cna tel lme about it, please shoot me an email marcus-at-marcusmiller.net, or marcus-at-miller-motorsports.com

Marcus

[Marcus Miller]

Originally posted by Dick Elliott:
MARCUS! Ever talked to these guys? www.rx3mist.com/ (http://www.rx3mist.com/) 150+ in a stock body RX-3 in the 1/4. There out in your area.DICK.

Nope, I missed sevenstock8, I think I was racing that weekend....

Would be intereting to see... I'dalso love to see how they stopped it.

Marcus

[Marcus Miller]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
***In the photo you have the knee bar going across the dash which has had the lower middle part of the dash cut off and removed. Is this legal because of the bar, or is it not legal because, although the bar is there it's only legal to modify it, not get rid of it?***

Ben, I'll do a little guess work on the high roll cage cross bar at the dash. The car is a 1984 or 1985 & by rule we are required to leave the lower portion of the DASH that continues around the shift levrer. If ya order a dash the part around the shift lever is one piece with the dash.

Marcus, is the car with the lower roll cage cross bar at the dash one from the years 1981 through 1983 ?


I wish, both cars are 85's, I built my pro7 with the same understanding/ thought process. Its one peice, therefore illegal to remove.
The ITA car was received in that shape. It won't be much work to add the lower portion back on. It might be ugly, but...

I have a sapre 82 chassis; the dash is two pieces.
A shot of a stock 82 dash, you can see the beltline: http://images.miller-motorsports.com/002/P9190245.JPG

Marcus
MArcus

[Dick Elliott]

It direct fire all right, if it has three coils. Never seen any proof that direct fire is any better on a dyno.



Originally posted by Marcus Miller:

Sorry, It has three total, dual leading, single trailing.

Marcus

[Tak]

Yes, 83 and earlier dashes are 2 pieces. Question for group--the rule page lists 79 to 85 rx-7. Ergo cogito zoom, the 79-83 dash can be installed as an assembly in an 84-85 chassis? Ditto other items like 3rd members, strut assemblies, distributers, drive shafts, etc, etc.

Tak
#29 ITA Rx7, SFR SCCA

[steve s]

the dash does not bolt up directly you'll have to make a bracket for the outer bolts at the windshield ,i think evverything else should fit .struts 3rd member etc.

------------------
steve saney
it-7 /it-a #34

[ddewhurst]

Posted by Tak:

***Ergo cogito zoom, the 79-83 dash can be installed as an assembly in an 84-85 chassis?***

Posted by Steve:

***the dash does not bolt up directly you'll have to make a bracket for the outer bolts at the windshield***

Something tells me this is not within the rules to make new brakets to mount the 81/83 dash into the 84/85.

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David

ps: The rearend link attachment to the chassis & the vin number tell the story. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif

[Speed Raycer]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
GCR Glossary defination of Distributor Cap: "An ignition system distrubitor component which contains the *high voltage distribution contacts* and *means for securing the high voltage wires*." IMHU high voltage wires equals coil & plug wires which SHALL be connected to the distrubitor cap. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

[Devils Advocate:] Well, my distributor cap still contains the distribution contacts AND the means for securing the spark plug wires. If the cap is free, then I can use a cap w/o the distribution contacts and plug wires, which means that I can use no cap/rotor at all correct?[/DA]


(I really would like to see a difinitive answer come up at some point)

Scott

[ddewhurst]

Scott, please read rule 1.2.4....... http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David

[Marcus Miller]

To further derail my own thread with more rules questions...
Can anyone ID this air cleaner?
http://gcrall.miller-motorsports.com/images/RX-7/_IGP2319.JPG

Is it legal? I sem to remember a clause about substacks...


and I'm pretty sure this is not legal:
http://gcrall.miller-motorsports.com/images/RX-7/_IGP2312.JPG

My GCR is a couple hundred miles awy, but IIRC it says (paraphrased) no holes in things that didn't have holes to direct air tothe air cleaner.

thanks!!
Marcus

[lateapex911]

IMHO, the air cleaner is fu=ine, it's free, and while there is the "no prohibitid function" rule, it would be a stretch to invoke that here.


THere IS a hole there, IIRC BUT it is plugged! So no joy on the second pic.

And those feet in the above pic should be improved, whether they pass or not.

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Marcus Miller]

Thanks Jake!

Surprisingly, no more rules questions from me today http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

Its time to reassemble the front bumper/splitter and then take a peek at the rear end of the car.

Marcus

[lateapex911]

Oh! IIRC, that air cleaner is a Mazda Comp (now Mazdaspeed) part. Not sure if it still sold. Reputed to add an hp or two.

If all the HP or twos I have actually added up, I might have Acura level HP!



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]