Newbie has some questions

[RSanchez17]

Just registed for SCCA school and purchased a 1995 Miata 1.8 liter that was used in ITS until about 2001 last entry in Log book. Last owner was auto crossing the car. He had adjustible Koni shocks and coil overs on the car. Also has bolt on strut rod brace up front. Can I still use these n the car and get the car tech for ITS again? Also what Camber/Caster/Toe setting should I use n this car for road racing. Thanks for you help in advance.

[ralph mcconnell]

you need to talk to mike @ ISC Racing.net. He has an ITA miata that is quick. He should be able to give you the infor that you need.

[RacerBowie]

The car sounds fine as it sits. You don't "need" the strut tower brace, but as long as it only attaches to the strut towers and not to the firewall it is legal.

Konis and coilovers are the way to go!

Alignment: zero toe all the way around is the fastest. If you are a new driver and not comfortable with the rear being a touch twitchy, toe the rear in 1/8".

Camber: Start off at -2.5 front and -2.0 rear and play with it depending on pyrometer readings, wear, balance, etc.

Hope this helps!

Bowie
ITA '93 Miata

[Andy Bettencourt]

Does anyone else think the 128hp 1.8 Miata loks and smells like an ITA car?

Write some letters.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[benspeed]

No doubt the car is ITA material. ITS will provide great experience, but around race 4 or 5 it won't be that much fun being lapped.

[RacerBowie]

Refresh us as to where to send these letters. This could be the best news I have heard all day, and will be the impetus for me to write my first ever "letter to the powers that be".

Bowie

[ITAMiata]

Hell no the 1.8 doesn't belong in ITA, because it would eat my 1.6 alive.

Bill
ITA MIata #33

[RacerBowie]

My letter is sent.

I think the 1.8 miata is a good option for ITA, but not a class-killer. on a tight track, the car should be about where the 1.6 is, which is at, or close to, the front. On a longer track where the cars get to stretch their legs, it would be able to stay with the integras, nx2000s, etc.

Maybe put it at 2300lbs and see what happens? I think it would be an absolute dog at 2400. Suspension, braking, aero are all the same as the 1.6, but that little bit of extra torque could bring things right into line.

Bowie

[dickita15]

is there any reason that it would be a problem to list the 1.6 and the 1.8 on the same spec line.

dick

[ITAMiata]

The 2205 minimum weight for the 1.6 has been unrealistic for me. The least I've weighed in the car is 2274 which would mean a 1.8 weighing 2300 wouldn't be much of a disadvantage, if any.

I'd like to run my E36 M3 in ITS, but I doubt the 325 guys would be really interested in it.

Bill
ITA Miata #33

[RacerBowie]

I would like to see all Miatas from '90-'97 listed on the same line, but I don't really expect it. The changes to the chassis over the years are all updateable, so you can easily make a '90 the same as a '97. Miatas are all on the same line in CSP for autocross, for what it is worth. ($0.00)

Weight: The 2205 limit is reachable. My car is a '93, and weighs 2226 with me in it, and I weighed 192 at the time, without my suit on. When I reach the 180lb mark WITH driver's suit, the car should be right at minimum (got a couple of other changes going on in the process, for those who notice the math doesn't add up), and the undercoating is all still there. That said, the SM guys are reporting that Miatas don't seem to all be built the same. Some guys can get '92s and '93s under 2200 with driver, and some '90s weigh 2300.

As to getting weight off yours, what intake do you have? What exhaust? Does yours have the original aluminum hood, or one of the steel replacements? (10ish lbs) What wheels? What thickness cage tubing? Ever had the windshield replaced? Get the cheapest one you can find. Etc.

Bowie

[Andy Bettencourt]

My initial thought was that the two cars would be on different lines...the 1.8 at around 2400lbs...anyone build one at that weight?

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[RacerBowie]

At 2400, I would be on the fence. I don't think the car will be able to be as fast as the 1.6 with 200lbs extra weight. I think it would also be MUCH less fun to drive.

At 2300, I would most likely build one, but at 2400, I don't know that I would tie up the resources.

Bowie

[Andy Bettencourt]

Bowie,

I kind of like that response...makes me think it would be a decent choice but not an overdog.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[RacerBowie]

I figured you would; I was actually loathe to post it without further explanation, but work was busy at that moment.

The 1.6 Miata, as we have determined, is competitive at handling tracks and can get pretty close at horsepower tracks, but not quite get over the top there. What seems to be the issue is a combination of two things: Torque off the corners, and speed during the second half of the straightaways.

The reason the car is able to get close is its phenominal handling and consistency over the course of the race distance, where it is still strong at the end while the other cars have degraded.

As the driver of one of the top 3 or 4 prepared 1.6 ITA Miatas in the country, I feel that it is a car that can compete on an even basis with many of the cars in ITA. These would be the "no excuses" CRXs, most of the 240sxs, and the "Almost Developed" Integras. It doesn't seem to be able to touch the "pinnacle" of the class, which is the Developed Integras. We don't know how the Neons, NX2000s, etc are going to do yet.

I am fortunate enough to race with one of the better-prepped Integras in country on a regular basis, driven by a very good driver, and we have determined the following at Road Atlanta: (This is done ASSuming that I am a good driver. I feel I have earned that assumption, but you may disagree)

My car is a touch faster in turns 1-5. Exiting 5, he torques away from me. I catch up a tiny bit in 6 and 7, and he drives out of the draft on the back straight. He gains about double the distance I can make up in the turns on the back straight each lap, even though I am trying to draft him.

I feel that a 1.8 at 2400 would be in a similar situation for about 5 laps, then things would get worse. The tires would go off a bit, the brakes would be taking a pounding, etc. Over the next 10-15 laps of the race, the car would degrade further, taking the fun out of driving it and putting the driver in a defensive position instead of attacking. This late race attacking is what makes the Miata a winner at the twisty tracks, not outright speed.

I guess what I am trying to say, is what is the point of classifying it if it is going to be worse off than the 1.6, less fun to drive, and harder on equipment? If the 1.8 were at an equal or similar weight to the 1.6 (2200-2300lbs) I feel it could be right there with the top cars in the class. Not ahead of them, and probably not as fast as them for the first 2/3 of a race, but fast at the ends and giving them a late-race run for their money.

I, of course, would prefer the 1.6 and 1.8 to be on the same line in the rulebook so I didn't have to build a new tub, but if I thought it had a good chance, I would drop the coin to build the newer one.

That is my opinion, worth what you paid for it.

Bowie

[Andy Bettencourt]

Bowie,

Good stuff. I would debate the fall-off at 2400 (same as SM) but we have to work within our 'process'. Anything newly clasified needs to be put through in order to make sense.

I think the best answer would be to request that the CRB 're-run' the Integra, 240SX and CRX through the process and see what happens then!

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[RacerBowie]

I guess I will just have to wait and see what comes of the request then!

Will add even more to ITA being the coolest class in club racing!

Have a good memorial day weekend everyone!

Bowie