Are Hoosiers that much better?

[Newbie]

It seems that most in this forum use either Hoosier or Toya RA-1's. Hoosers are faster but last only 2 races, while RA-1's last 6 races but are "2 seconds" slower (are those shaved RA-1's or full tread depth?).

What about Avon, Hankook, Khumo, or Michelin Sport Cup's? The local PCA guys are pretty high on the Michelin's because they are "fast and last a long time".

So, are Hoosiers that much better?

Steve Smyczek
'87 RX-7
MC-ITS #17X

[JeffYoung]

Too car and situation dependent to answer definitively. I think the heavier the car, the additional grip provided by the Hoosier ecomes more important. Not many, if any, front running S cars on Toyos.

But in a Miata, or a B or C car..might not be so different, and a lot of Miata drivers prefer Toyos.

Only answer is to try them out on your car and see what you like best. In other words, spend $$$$...unfortunately.

[C. Ludwig]

Well, I ponied up the cash and did a back to back test this past weekend at IRP. New Kumho V710s on Saturday and new R3S04s on Sunday. The Hoosiers were around 1.5s faster with no other changes to the car. Not only that but they felt soooo much better at the limit. I'm done looking elsewhere. Hoosiers for life.

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Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv

[joeg]

If you stay at it long enough and money is not a consideration, you will reach the same conclusion about tires as Chris.

Hoosiers are simply faster...period.

The Spec Miata guys running the Toyos or Kumhos are doing so out of a spirit of comraderie (or regional rule); I paddock with many of them and the fastest has told me if he ran his Hoosiers, he would be much faster.

He is already fast on his Toyos.

Michelins are only available in the larger sizes as are the new slick Kumhos.

Hoosier services all sizes.

Cheers.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I know nobody listens to me on this forum but...

GOODYEARS. Try them. Currently our team car (Leverone) owns 5 track records in the Northeast on the GSCS. Our testing shows that they are the best.

A few facts:

RWD ITS RX-7
4.88 or 5.12 rear
225/50/15

Take a look at what is being run on the same type of car at the runoffs. Larger RWD cars tend to run Goodyears (AS, T1, etc) and we are faster on them. Most people have never considered them and we run what is the best in our opinion.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[Ron Earp]

Any Z drivers trying the Goodyears, although the RX7 seems close enough for a good comparison. Jeff seems to think them worth a look on our Z and I wouldn't mind trying them out. We're using Toyos now and they simply run out of grip in certain situations.

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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
White Jensen-Healey ITS
Silver "Skull" 260Z ITS

[joeg]

Andy--We have not forgotten GOODYEARS. They do not appear to carry all the sizes, however, even though they are a mighty good tire.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Absolutely right Joe, but for Steve's RX-7, there are most certainly an option...

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[Chris Wire]

Originally posted by JeffYoung:
Too car and situation dependent to answer definitively. I think the heavier the car, the additional grip provided by the Hoosier ecomes more important. Not many, if any, front running S cars on Toyos.


I know it's not widespread, and maybe the exception not the rule, but I'll give you one example - Irish Mike.

Mike's Merc 190E 2.3 is one of the heaviest ITS cars out there and he has always run the Toyos as far as I can remember. Coincidentally, he just won the ECR at Daytona over the weekend. Rob May set a new lap record (sub :16 - awesome!) in an RX7 on Hoosiers, but hey, we're out to win right? And Mike got the win.

I think tires are like some other high expense items like Motec, and the like. If the driver/suspension/motor combination is not optimized, there really isn't a true need for them.

Would you put a Motec on a junkyard motor? Would you build a killer race engine your first year of racing? Would you spring for data acquisition before you were convinced you were maximizing your package?

Depending on the size of tire and how often you race, the savings from Hoosier to Toyo/Kumho can be tremendous, and can pay for a little extra seat time if your effort needs a little more from the driver than it does from the tires.


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Chris Wire
Team Wire Racing
ITS Mazda RX7 #35
[email protected]

[ddewhurst]

***the savings from Hoosier to Toyo/Kumho can be tremendous, and can pay for a little extra seat time if your effort needs a little more from the driver than it does from the tires.***

Steve, the above words are words of wisdom. I have run the same 4 Toyo for 3 years (20/24 races) & will start this year on them. That may say a couple things but I have fun racing with other cars. If my only intent was to spend money I would have Hoosiers.

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David

ps: ***I know nobody listens to me on this forum but...***

Andy, not true.......... http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif

[mustanghammer]

Anybody have any experience with the 215/50x13 Yokohama A032R? They are discounted on the Tirerack web site and I was wondering if they would be a good tire to have for track time - like a Toyo only a smaller diameter.

I bought new Hoosiers (225/50x13) a couple of weeks ago and they are really good. They are faster than the Kumho ECSTA V700's and will probably last about as long. That said, I need a cheap, reliable tire that will allow me to run races and get points.

Thoughts?



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Scott Peterson
KC Region
IT7 #17

[lateapex911]

The Toyos last forever, and never chunk badly...they seem like the best "cheap" solution to me...

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Newbie]

Hey Andy,

What model of Goodyear are you recommending, and how many races do you get out of them?

Steve Smyczek
'87 RX-7
MC-ITS #17X

[Ron Earp]

Andy,

Who sells Goodyears, and, are they available in 14" sizes? I was told that they did not produce them in 14" sizes any longer, anyone know the story on this?

Thanks,
Ron

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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
White Jensen-Healey ITS
Silver "Skull" 260Z ITS

[Chris Wire]

Originally posted by rlearp:
Who sells Goodyears, and, are they available in 14" sizes? I was told that they did not produce them in 14" sizes any longer, anyone know the story on this?

http://www.racegoodyear.com/products/racect32.html

I don't see a listing for 14" and only two sizes for 15s. You can find the distributors on that site as well. If I remember, they are priced right at or just a tad higher than the Hoosiers.



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Chris Wire
Team Wire Racing
ITS Mazda RX7 #35
[email protected]

[Ron Earp]

Thanks Chris, looks to be the case. We'll have to go with Hoosiers or Toyos I suppose.

R

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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
White Jensen-Healey ITS
Silver "Skull" 260Z ITS

[Eagle7]

I think I'm going to try Goodyears this year - especially after Hoosier stiffed us with the Champ Series awards (so far, at least).
Just talked to the Goodyear guy at the track. He didn't have my tire in the truck, but gave me a price list. Guess I'll have them shipped and let the Hoosier guy mount them at the track.


Eagle GS-CS (1)
* 205/60-13 - $164
* 195/60-14 - $164
* 225/60-14 - $179
* 225/50-15 - $179 (Hoosier is $188)

He said they don't need the initial heat cycling and long rest like the Hoosiers. Scuff them in qualifying then race them.

Since they were designed for SS cars, they have asymetric sidewalls that work best at lower camber angles. He thought 2 deg vs the 3 deg I use with Hoosiers.

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Marty Doane
ITS RX-7 #13
CenDiv WMR

[This message has been edited by Eagle7 (edited May 14, 2005).]

[Eagle7]

Goodyear has their web site messed up, so the link in the prior message takes you to the Eagle RS page, instead of GS-CS. The RS is a new tire that is not yet available in IT sizes, and as Chris said, looks like it will eventually have two 15" sizes (205/50 & 225/45), and nothing smaller.

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Marty Doane
ITS RX-7 #13
CenDiv WMR

[Ron Earp]

Marty,

Who did you call on those? I wish to order a set of Goodyears, those 225/60/14s would work.

Ron

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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
White Jensen-Healey ITS
Silver "Skull" 260Z ITS

[Eagle7]

http://www.racegoodyear.com/distributors.html


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Marty Doane
ITS RX-7 #13
CenDiv WMR

[bldn10]

Based in part on Andy's recommendation I decided to try a set of Goodyears. Now I know why you don't see them that much. I e-mailed one dealer who advertises in SportsCar - no response. I e-mailed Comp Tire and I was referred to a dealer. Called them and they did not know what I was talking about. No response when I pointed that out. E-mailed other Comp Tire branches and got "not delivered" returns. Finally called Fla. and was referred to Mich., who turn out to be the ones that service Memphis. They don't have any tires and don't know why - "you can check the truck at the track and see if they have any." I've never had so much trouble trying to give someone my business - screw it.

FWIW after a set of Avons, I'd say they are somewhere between Hoosiers and Toyos.

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Bill Denton
87/89 ITS RX-7
02 Audi TT225QC
95 Tahoe
Memphis

[Ron Earp]

I had no trouble getting a set from the outfit in Florida listed on the website. Very helpful had them in 2 days. Did you try them?

The tires look good, but, we had to go to 60 series tires from 50 series tires which I don't like so much. We'll have them at CMP this weekend and if they last much longer than Hoosier but stick better than Toyos then we might be on to something.

I or Jeff will report back, whichever one of us survives the weekend.

R

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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
White Jensen-Healey ITS
Silver "Skull" 260Z ITS

[Newbie]

Just for the heck of it, I went with Avons. I'll be able to compare them to second hand hoosiers. I'm saving my pennies so the next set will be new Hoosiers.

Of course, I'm new so I may not notice the difference!

[22timber]

For those running the Hoosier, do you run the 225/45/15 or the 225/50/15?

Mark
ITS #23

[MaxEnergy]

Avon makes a new version for this year, last year's was not good, I ran them. They last forever but do not stick. I understand they are currently sold out at tirerack.

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Jamie Kekeisen
86 ITS RX-7 NER
92 325IS under construction

[Eagle7]

I ordered the Goodyears last week from Competition Tire Midwest. They said they had to order them, they'd be in by the end of the week, and I'd have them early this week. I called back Tuesday to confirm that they shipped them, and they said "oh, they didn't come in, maybe this week". They checked and no, they wouldn't be coming this week either. I canceled the order. My Hoosiers will be on the truck at the track tomorrow.

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Marty Doane
ITS RX-7 #13
CenDiv WMR