starting questions

[reisertracing]

Having a hard time firing up 985 Mazda RX-7 IT-7, charged battery but hard to turn over and fire, what do you recommend as a start up procedure?
Found a wire lead from left front coil cracked, could this be a problem. Car fires, just doesn't want to start. Changed fuel filter, plugs, . any suggestions?

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Johhny R.

[Marcus Miller]

Is it slow to turn over, or just won't fire?
details on the engine? (used? mileage, etc?)

Does it seem like tis flooding? (plugs wet? odor of gas? Have you checked for Spark and fuel at the engine?
We start mine cold with a spray bottle of gasoline as encouragement. 4 or 5 spritzes and it fires right up.

Marcus

[reisertracing]

It turns over, just won't fire, changed plugs, can hear full pumps, 2 days ago it fired and ran about 2 minutes then stalled.
IT HAS GAS!, checked fuel cell.
car is 1985 RX-7, mileage fair for car, motor good shape.

[Speed Raycer]

Have you tried the ATF trick?

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Scott Rhea
It's not what you build...
it's how you build it
http://www.izzyscustomcages.com/images/IzysLgoSm.jpg (http://www.izzyscustomcages.com)
Izzy's Custom Cages (http://www.izzyscustomcages.com)

[reisertracing]

ATF trick? Please enlighten me!

[Speed Raycer]

The fact that it ran for about 2 minutes, then died is interesting. Was it idleing fine then died or was it sputtering?

First, pull the plugs and disable the coils. Spin the motor over to clear out any fuel to make sure it's not flooded (you might want to cover your framerail with rags). While your spinning the motor over, listen to the sound that the apex seals are making. It should be a consistant "pish" sound.

The ATF treatment is kind of a last resort. It makes a ton of smoke and will foul out your plugs (so don't use any plugs from Mazdaspeed http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif)

If all else has failed and you're sure its timed right, has spark and getting fuel, pour 1 cap full down each primary. What it does is to help form a compression seal for the apex seals, helps lube the seals as well as break up some of the carbon deposits that might be causeing your firing problems due to lack of compression.

Some of the diehard rotorheads use motor oil as it forms a better compression seal since it's thicker than ATF.

Again, last resort and don't do it in your garage unless you've got a VERY good exhaust fan. Be ready for the neighbors to call the fire department. It'll send out a plume of white smoke for about 5 minutes.

[JeffYoung]

Been a while since I had my 82 GXL 12a, but that sounds like rotor flood to me. When I bought the car, I was told don't ever run it for just a minute or two and shut it down, the rotors will "flood." What happens is that gas doesn't burn and pools in the rotor housings, destroying compression (akin to borewash on a piston engine). TUrning it over and over just makes it worse.

What you have to do is described above. Pull the plugs and dry them or better yet get new ones. Turn the motor over and pump out the gas. Let the car sit overnight, reinstall plugs and try again. If that doesn't work, try the ATF or motor oil trick to get the apex seals to reseal and get compression back.

Good luck. This happened to me twice in 3 yeas of ownership. Both times came after shuttig the car down after moving it in the driveway, adn both required the above procedure and anovernight sit to correct.

[reisertracing]

Primarys?you mean into the spark plug holes? or what?
Thanks a million!

[Daryl DeArman]

Primaries are the two smaller barrels in the carb, the secondaries are the two larger ones.

When you remove the plugs to crank out all of the fuel make certain that you pull the fuse for the fuel pump. You don't want to keep pumping fuel in there. Get everything out once that is accomplished then you can activate the fuel pump again.

[Daryl DeArman]

Primaries are the two smaller barrels in the carb, the secondaries are the two larger ones. Unless of course you are running an 85 Fuel injected motor....

When you remove the plugs to crank out all of the fuel make certain that you pull the fuse for the fuel pump. You don't want to keep pumping fuel in there. Get everything out once that is accomplished then you can activate the fuel pump again.

If it is FI I am pretty confident it is because of flooding.

[reisertracing]

Okay, where is the fuse for the fuel pump? I have the plastic fuses to left of steering collum under the dash, some 10amp, 20 and which one goes to the fule pump?

[dyoungre]

I have used 2-stroke oil instead of the ATF with good results. Make sure you put the oil into the LOWER sparkplug hole, not the top, as the top hole has a much smaller hole going into the combustion chamber. I use a syringe to push it in, then bar the engine over at least 3 revolutions. I did this to an engine that had sat since '98, and it fired right up. It had a secondary benefit, too - no mosquitos that night!

I've also had similar dying/startup trouble with bad distributor caps/rotors. If you are going through plugs and wires, I recommend the cap goes too.

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Dave Youngren
NER ITA RX7 #61

[Speed Raycer]

Originally posted by reisertracing:
Okay, where is the fuse for the fuel pump? I have the plastic fuses to left of steering collum under the dash, some 10amp, 20 and which one goes to the fule pump?

Not sure where the fuse is... but if you're not getting power to the pump, it's probably the pump relay... pretty common failure. Run a direct wire from the battery just for testing purposes. Otherwise you'll spend a couple of hours trying to track down the relay http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

[Mike Spencer]

Originally posted by Speed Raycer:
The fact that it ran for about 2 minutes, then died is interesting. Was it idleing fine then died or was it sputtering?...

FWIW, I too would start with the "ATF Trick", but if that doesn't work my next step would be to look at the carb. I know for a fact that my accelerator pump has a cracked diaphram and behaves in a similar fashion. If the car sits longer than overnight I have to prime it (as in the "4 or 5 spritzes"). Once the car is warmed up, it's fine. But until then if you breathe on the throttle it stalls.

Good luck!

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Mike Spencer
NC Region
ITA/7 RX-7 #60
1990 RX-7 Convertible (street car)

[Daryl DeArman]

I don't own or wrench on an Rx7 any longer and my memeory isn't that good. You will have to look in your FSM or owner's manual, or the back of the fuse block cover, or wait for someone who knows which one it is to reply. If, you still can't find it, unplug the wiring harness connector at the fuel pump.

[reisertracing]

Pulled plugs, disconnected ignitions, disconnected fuel pump turned it over and plan to put new plugs in in the AM. Treid the ATF trick and no smoke.
Will try new battery and look at carb if new plugs and over night sitting doesn't work.
Changed rotor/distributor cap also. Check spark to ground and it sparks.

Thanks for the suggestions, if I could find chris ludwig, he lives 5 min away, I would see if he could come down and take a look.

BTW, anyone going to the "MAZDA ROTARY REVOlution" in INDY this weekend? There is a track day at IRP Sunday. Drag races saturday night and looks of dealers and aftermarket stuff set up.
Johhny

[benspeed]

All suggestions are on the money - particularly the AFT deal. Getting a good battery is also a key deal to starting. It really needs to crank some juice to fire. My battery has a slow drain on it so I have to disconnect it each time. If I forget, I have a bitch of a time starting the car unless I charge the battery for 24 hours.

[benspeed]

PS - if your car floods regularly you might want to add a fuel swith. When you shut the car down, shut off fuel and let it die. Then you help avoid repeat flooding.

[reisertracing]

with the ATF trick, may have done it wrong, do you leave the plugs in? the coils connected, and fuel pump connected? what is connected and what isn't. Got good spark from trailing plugs. using waste fuel plug and have gas getting into both primaries and fuel windows front and rear half full, may be timing too, any suggestions on timing check ?