ITA - IT7 - ITB at the ARRC

[Andy Bettencourt]

Rick Thompson wrote:


For Jake's Sake:
....I hope Brian Dobson shows up in IT7. He will be the one to beat. Then "maybe" Jake will get the idea of what a "FAST" RX7 is.
....And Jake, while your there, ask him and Sam Henderson what they think about the move you want to make.

___Rick Thompson #99 IT7


The top 3 ITA cars just qualified at an AVERAGE lap time of 1:43.352.

The top 3 IT7 cars averaged a 1:47.697.

TQ's? Stretch at a 1:43.087 in ITA
Dobson at a 1:47.469 in IT7

So there is your wish. OVER a 4 second delta. ITB TQ? 1:48.911.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITS RX-7 and ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[Boswoj]

Wow -

Now it really IS starting to sound like some 6" wheels and a small amount of weight would make a 1st gen a natural ITB fit!

[tdw6974]

Originally posted by Boswoj:
Wow -

Now it really IS starting to sound like some 6" wheels and a small amount of weight would make a 1st gen a natural ITB fit! The move is fine but I hope we can Keep the 7" wheels.

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">The move is fine but I hope we can Keep the 7\" wheels.</font>

*That* won't happen, I'll betcha. There's just no way that I see the ITAC and CRB approving equipment adjustmetns specific to a particular car.

If you want ITB, you'll have to take it with 6" wheels. At that point you can start campaigning for 7" wheels for the entire class. - GA

[gran racing]

Isn't buying 6" wheels worth the price to move to B? And of course a little extra money going towards led. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

------------------
Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[tdw6974]

http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif Must be you guys don't have budget monitors(wife) Lets see 10 Panasports @ 180.00 12 Diamonds @70.00 might be able to sneek in the garage a few at time unless the UPS guy rats me out. Heck the weight is free $7.00 a pop at the Church harvest suppers we got that solved although the last scales we where on said we had about 150 lbs. to spare http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/eek.gif

[Hotshoe]

Andy:

.....You guys like to use only the results where the RX7 is at a disadvantage. Like you choose to ignore the fact that Road Atlanta is a TORQUE oriented track.
.....I gave you results showing how an RX7 stacks up in the SEDiv. And further more I invited you to come to CMP sometime with your ITS car and I will show you myself.
.....Do as you wish, but, I'm convinced that a person with tunnel vision should not be in a decision making capacity. So I shall consider the source (as you did with David) and choose C.

Name is not important ... pertinent facts to be ignored, Use only what suits your purpose.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Rick,

Come on. Maybe we should define each track so that we can take all your data in the proper context. Torque track, HP track, Momentum track, etc. That would help everyone understand your conclusions better.

The ITS RX-7 is down 30+ WHP and 100ft/lbs to the E36 BMW but the times aren't ANYwhere near the delta you have in ITA/IT7. Why would you say that is?

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITS RX-7 and ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[gran racing]

$2,640(+) just in wheels? WOW! I'll have to have your budget monitor talk to mine. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

Try thinking about it a bit differently though. You shouldn't have too much of a problem selling the wheels on eBay. Then you buy some panasports for dry tires and the diamond for rains. You certainly don't need 22 wheels. (Yes, I'm sure there are advantages)

Also think about the money you spend on your car to get faster. I'd rather spend money on wheels and then be able to compete for a win in ITB versus spending money on many other things and still have no shot if the fast ITA cars show up.


------------------
Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[ddewhurst]

ARRC IT7 qualifyinfg results

1st 1:47.469

2nd 1:47.808

3rd 1:47.815

4th 1:49.147

5th 1:49.180

6th 1:49.444

7th 1:49.472

8th 1:49.856

Andy, would you like to take a run at explaining the difference of 2.4 seconds between the time of the 1st place qualifying time & the 8th place qualifying time. Hell ya, I know the 1st place qualifying time was completed by a car not from the NorthEast. Therefore it must be _ _ _ _ _ _ _.

Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...1st place qualifying time [in IT7} was completed by a car not from the NorthEast. Therefore it must be _ _ _ </font>

Uh, a first-gen RX-7? What do I win?

[Andy Bettencourt]

David,

What the HECK are you getting at???? I have NO IDEA what you are asking me or the point you are TRYING to make.

Serra (Northeast Integra) won ITA with a new track record from what I understand.

Can you explain the difference in the top ITA times vs. the top IT7 times? I can...4 seconds!!!

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITS RX-7 and ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[ddewhurst]

Andy, when you fall off your soap box I hope you don't hurt yourself. Brian qualified 1st & Jake qualified 8th 2.4 seconds back. How come the fastest IT7 1st gen RX-7 from the NorthEast is 2.4 seconds slower than the fastest IT7 car in qualifying ?

I can not ask you (Andy) my question any other way than I have above within this post.

Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
How come the fastest IT7 1st gen RX-7 from the NorthEast is 2.4 seconds slower than the fastest IT7 car in qualifying ?

David

Um....cuz he's faster??? duh... http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/rolleyes.gif

David, don't make me waste time to go back and quote myself...I've stated MANY, many, times that I didn't base my comments on my own results. I have provided empirical data a zillion times regarding the relative merits of the 7 versus the ITA leaders.

Do you really think that ANY legal RX-7 will be at the front after 20 laps with Serra or Stretch?? On paper it's doubtful, and the results are in synch.

Let's look at it another way.... a driver at the track for only the second time put 4 seconds a lap on guys who have a ton of miles there...



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[ddewhurst]

Jake, I didn't say anything about the 7 & ITA. I asked a simple question of Andy about 2.4 seconds because people were tooting their honrs about the legality of fast cars if they were not from the NorthEast.

NUFF said on this subject http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David

[dickita15]

I am really not sure where this northeast is evil thing started. correct me if i am wrong but my recolection of how we got to this point in the thread was. our observations were that rx7's were not in the same league as the fast ITA cars. then we looked for data from other areas. The SE data is important because there is a vibrant IT7 class people have kept developing their cars. There is not a lot of insentive to spend a lot on rx7's up here with all the fast acura's. we went to the ARRC last year in part to measure ourselves against the competitive SE cars. my conclusion was that the state of prep of rx7's is very good in the SE, but they were still no match for good ITA cars. Then Rick T sent results showing very strong performance, but none where he raced against top notch ITA cars.
so why are we evil
dick patullo

[Tom Donnelly]

Dick,

Y'all aren't evil. Y'all are just yankees! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif
We're still a little riled about y'all buring Atlanta.

Tom

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
Jake, I didn't say anything about the 7 & ITA. I asked a simple question of Andy about 2.4 seconds because people were tooting their honrs about the legality of fast cars if they were not from the NorthEast.

NUFF said on this subject http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David

Ahhhhhh.....NOW I get it! I guess I need to be a better mind reader.... or a better "between the lines reader"!

Here's the jist of it ...
The (other) thread was looking for opinions relevent to the move of the 1st gen RX-7 from A to B as I asserted that it wasn't competitive in A. I gave empirical data to show the gross inequalities.

You wanted to know my times, results etc...I gave them to you but stated they were not entirely relevent.

Rick T commented that the car was fine in A, and he was beating A and S cars where he was. We attempted to put the results he pointed us to, and others, in perspective...who was he beating...etc. Comments were made that the he had never raced at Atlanta at the ARRCs, and therefore, it is inescapable that the confidence in the cars legality would be lower that if he had survived an ARRC semi teardown. That is NOT saying that the car is anything BUT 100 % legal...it is only saying that it is not a known data point...

We were able to look at a lot of results and see that while Rick is "the man" in SE IT7, he is closely followed (and beaten by, occasionaly) a few others. As some of the others DO come to Atlanta, we can draw reasonable conclusions on how Rick would fare...

And the result?? Same as before....he would be off the ITA pace.

(As a side note....even I passed a few CRXs in qualifying....doesn't mean I should be in their class though....)

Now a couple points.....

The IT7s were well driven by guys who clearly know the track, and they are certainly not short on power. I have homework to do in that area, to be sure.

Perhaps RA isn't particularly favorable to the RX-7....but it is a classic road course...of which there are many more. It is in no way unique. Actually, it is fairly standard compared to many of the classic road courses nationwide. I am not sure if torque is the only item needed there though...that straight is reaaaallllly long.

Second...lets not put TOO much faith in the thinking that any car that survives the tech shed at the ARRCs is legal. The post race inspection techniques are well known, and anyone who fails is a fool. But the inspection is by no means complete, and therefore it can not be used to claim a cars absoulute legality.

However, it's the best we've got.



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[ITSRX7]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
Andy, when you fall off your soap box I hope you don't hurt yourself. Brian qualified 1st & Jake qualified 8th 2.4 seconds back. How come the fastest IT7 1st gen RX-7 from the NorthEast is 2.4 seconds slower than the fastest IT7 car in qualifying ?

I can not ask you (Andy) my question any other way than I have above within this post.

Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David

Actually David, that IS the ifrst time you asked the question. When the next one pops up, just ask it.

Jake said it better above but I will slow it down. Nobody ever said Jake was the fasted RX-7 in the country - nor did anyone say that they were using his results EXCLUSIVELY to base their opinions.

The issue at hand is whether the RX-7 is more suited for IA or ITB. Looking at these limited results, what would your opinion be? Yes David, that is a question for you.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[RSTPerformance]

ARRC IT7 qualifyinfg results

1st 1:47.469
2nd 1:47.808
3rd 1:47.815
4th 1:49.147
5th 1:49.180
6th 1:49.444
7th 1:49.472
8th 1:49.856




FYI ITB results Qualifying
1st 1:48.91 Audi
2nd 1:48.93 Audi
3rd 1:49.6 VW
4th 1:49.8 Volvo
5th 1:50's VW

With those numbers the RX7's would have dominated in ITB. I am not a scientist but do whatever it takes to slow the car down about 2 seconds (on this track) and you have a good fit. It would be eisier to slow the car down than to make it go 5 seconds faster!

Stephen

[ddewhurst]

***Looking at these limited results, what would your opinion be? Yes David, that is a question for you.***

Andy, looking at your limited results you may not be making the decision that the majority of 1st gen RX-7 owners/drivers want.

My judgement would be that maybe you should share the info on the number of letters you have received relative to what Divisions/Regions want the 1st gen RX-7 reclassed to ITB.

My conclusion without organizing the data from this site is that you folks in the NortEast should do just as you please (but don't impact the entire country) in the NortEast. I don't see a lot of letters from other Divisions asking for the 1st gen RX-7 to be reclassed to ITB.

I am happy racing within the CenDiv & MidWest Divisions with my partially converted 1st gen from Spec-7 to ITA. I can race ITA or IT7 depending on which event I enter. Winning is not everything & some of us know we can not win under certain situations. Chances are I could not beat Jake at the race track. Does that mean I should stay home.

Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David

[dickita15]

Originally posted by Tom Donnelly:
Dick,
Y'all aren't evil. Y'all are just yankees! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif
We're still a little riled about y'all buring Atlanta.
Tom

that part I get. a friend of mine who moved north from NC said that untill he was 12 years old he thought yankee was half a word.
dick http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

[Greg Amy]

I am flabbergasted and confused by a driver writing so vehemantly AGAINST getting his car classified to a lower class...

Just don't understand. Where's the advantage? Do you place a stigma on being in ITB? Are you just worried about having to buy 6" wheels? Do you just like getting your butt whooped?

Don't understand...<shrug>

[ITSRX7]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
***Looking at these limited results, what would your opinion be? Yes David, that is a question for you.***

Andy, looking at your limited results you may not be making the decision that the majority of 1st gen RX-7 owners/drivers want.

My judgement would be that maybe you should share the info on the number of letters you have received relative to what Divisions/Regions want the 1st gen RX-7 reclassed to ITB.

My conclusion without organizing the data from this site is that you folks in the NortEast should do just as you please (but don't impact the entire country) in the NortEast. I don't see a lot of letters from other Divisions asking for the 1st gen RX-7 to be reclassed to ITB.

I am happy racing within the CenDiv & MidWest Divisions with my partially converted 1st gen from Spec-7 to ITA. I can race ITA or IT7 depending on which event I enter. Winning is not everything & some of us know we can not win under certain situations. Chances are I could not beat Jake at the race track. Does that mean I should stay home.

Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David


That's funny, I've read your post three times and I don't see a direct answer to the question.

Oh ya, if you aren't on the CRB or ITAC, I'm not sure HOW you would see the letters.

David, given what you know about the cars, do you think it's more suited as an ITA car currently or as an ITB car with weight and 6" wheels? Simple question really.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[JeffYoung]

Greg, to answer your question, I think some of it is "car pride." Rick enjoys running in A, just like I like running my slow S car in S. To be told your car is too slow for the class it is in hurts a bit, whether this thinking is rational or not is a different story. I certainly take pride in racing an old "S" car and have no desire to see it moved down to A even though I get smoked by E36s and 2nd Gen RX7s.

Second, and this is not to be understated. We have a REALLY good ITS-ITA-IT7 run group down here at all the SEDiv tracks I go to (Barber, CMP, Roebling, VIR and Lowe's). The group of drivers is a good bunch, and we seem to for the most part all enjoy racing with each other.

Moving the 7 to ITB would break up our group, and some of the friendly, competitive battles that have gone on over the years would end.

Guys, I know there is empirical data from other places (although I tend to agree with Rick that the disparity at Road Atlanta is an anomaly) showing that the 7 would be a good fit in B. I just wish that before you guys started considering that, you came down to the SEDiv and watched an ITS/ITA/IT7 race at VIR, Roebling or CMP. I will tell you that the 7 does NOT look overmatched.

Do appreciate the depth of thinking, results gathering and consideration going on here though. If the 7 goes to B, it definitely will be a well thought out choice.

[gran racing]

Jeff, I hear what you are saying about building relationships / battles with drivers in the other groups you run with. I have a certain MR2 that I have developed an ongoing battle with in ITA (and good friendship as well). Yes, I will miss our many qualifying times within .05 of a second of each other. He always tells me that I’d rather finish in 10th place and be in front of him versus 2nd only losing to him. Of course I’ll miss this now that I’m going to ITB. (I’ve gotten over this and continue doing my happy dance!)

As far as your pride issue…I have to say I feel totally opposite from you here. I’m really looking forward to racing in ITB with cars that are much closely matched to mine. Getting beat by cars that start with 30 more hp and have a very close weight or CRXs that have similar HP but weigh a lot less compared to my car isn’t much fun. What I am looking forward to is having the opportunity to prove my driving ability against similar cars. This is where I would think pride really come in. Maybe it’ll just prove that I’m a sub par driver or an average driver. But I also have a shot of showing that I’m a very good driver. I can’t imagine you not having more fun having a chance to be a front runner in a class.

I do appreciate you explaining your feelings why you don’t want the RX7 moved to a “lower” class. You are the first person I’ve heard express any reasons why they don’t want their car moved to B. Of course it still puzzles me just a bit.

------------------
Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[JeffYoung]

Dave, thanks for the post. I share your sentiments exactly on the run group issue -- having a good group to race iwth is what club racing is all about.

To clarify, I run a slow (its driver more than anything) S car, a TR8. I run in Ricky's run group, though and can attest to the fact that he and others in 7 are plenty fast for the group.

My feelings on moving down are that my car is an S car, and I like running with the "fastest" group. Vain I guess, but that's where I am with it.

In any event, thanks for the post. Come down south sometime and run with us. I've never raced against a Prelude.

[ddewhurst]

Andy posted

***Looking at these limited results, what would your opinion be? Yes David, that is a question for you.***

David posted

***My conclusion without organizing the data from this site is that you folks in the NortEast should do just as you please (but don't impact the entire country) in the NortEast. I don't see a lot of letters from other Divisions asking for the 1st gen RX-7 to be reclassed to ITB.***

If you can't figure this out maybe you have problems understanding what people are saying in some of the letters you receive. Post the number of letters & Division location of those who desire a change to ITB & those who do not wish to be reclassed to ITB. That should be a quite simple task.

O-Shit, this is the secrete car club of America & you are not allowed to share secrete information.

Andy, what YOU & the other ITAC folks do is your business just like what the CRB does is their business. It seems that any input you receive that is not on base with your info or thoughts is considered a flyer & you throw the info out or tell the writter he/she is wrong. Change the 1sy gen RX-7 to whatever cxlass makes the folks in the NorthEast happy. I wll race my 1st gen RX-7 & I WILL NOT race the car in ITB............

Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
Andy, what YOU & the other ITAC folks do is your business just like what the CRB does is their business. It seems that any input you receive that is not on base with your info or thoughts is considered a flyer & you throw the info out or tell the writter he/she is wrong.

What a complete crock of $#!@....

EVERY letter that comes through the ITAC passes to us from the CRB, and EVERY letter that passes through the CRB gets printed in Fastrack each month once it's been processed. WHAT is so secret about that?

You can go back and look over the past two or three years and count up any number of letters you wish. If you do, you'll notice several previous letters asking that the RX-7 (and the MR-2 for that matter), be moved to ITB.

At the current time, our agenda has 5 letters on the books requesting that the RX-7 be reclassified to ITB,
[list]IT 04-054 - 1 request, Glen Region
[list]

All asking that the car be moved. We've not received a letter to my recollection opposing this idea, but then, it's never gone out for membership input, so the general membership doesn't really have a reason to write opposing it.

That's more letters than we recieve on most subjects, including crank pulleys, shock rules, etc...

Additionally, we get informatition from other sources as well, which includes from the various tracks we attend across the country. Not all information we gather has to come in the form of an official letter when it concerns trying to understand a situation.

There is no "secret" going on here, everything is published as it is decided on, and the communication with the membership has never been better...

Seems there are a few here that will never be satisfied with anything short of setting up the meetings in their living room or inviting them to personally participate in the con-calls...

This matter, like all others, is receiving a HIGH level of attention, because people are interested in making the RIGHT decision. Ultimately, that decision may not be the one that is right for some of you, but it will be made in what those making it believe is in the best interests of IT and the Club.

If you see it differently than that, well, that's an issue you'll have to just deal with.



------------------
Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://home.comcast.net/~djjordan/Web/DJ_AV1.jpg

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
Andy posted


***My conclusion without organizing the data from this site is that you folks in the NortEast should do just as you please (but don't impact the entire country) in the NortEast. I don't see a lot of letters from other Divisions asking for the 1st gen RX-7 to be reclassed to ITB.***

If you can't figure this out maybe you have problems understanding what people are saying in some of the letters you receive. ...... Change the 1sy gen RX-7 to whatever cxlass makes the folks in the NorthEast happy. I wll race my 1st gen RX-7 & I WILL NOT race the car in ITB............

Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David



David, if every letter they got was as cryptic as your comments can be, they would probably be more than a little confused....but it is entertaining..I'll say that! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

Andys question was:

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\"> \"David, given what you know about the cars, do you think it's more suited as an ITA car currently or as an ITB car with weight and 6\" wheels? Simple question really.\" </font>

As best as I can read it, your answer is that you will NOT race your car in ITB.

So, am I to infer that you think that the car belongs, due to it's attributes, in ITA??



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[lateapex911]

The original post by Andy compared the RX-7 to ITA and ITB at the ARRCs...

I find the ITB class interesting..I have a bit of good knowledge of the ITB pole and outside pole sitters, and I think that we have only seen a glimpse of the Audis potential. For those who don't know them, the brothers Blethen (Raymond and Steven) are young guys who work hard on their cars but are more than a little budget challenged. These cars have never seen a part that has been within a mile of machine shop, and a "new" part to these guys are ones that are "new" to that particular car! "Used" is the mantra...

I worry what those UPS trucks could do given proper resources ....a good balance and blueprinted motor, a new cam with full lobes, a nicely done head, and so on.

And don't think that they are just cars that excel on the straights...the cool Canadians have sluggfests with the Audis at places like NHIS, which is decidedly not a long straightaway course.

So, what I'm saying is that the bar in ITB is potentially higher than what we've seen so far. I wouldn't be surprised to see them run 1:47s at Road Atlanta.

If it happens, will they get a PCA??

Given that the RX-7 guys from the SE are the cream of the crop, what would a race between them, (on 6" rims), and the Audis (with a good motor) look like? It looks pretty close to me.


------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[JeffYoung]

Jake, good points.

[mustanghammer]

Change the 1sy gen RX-7 to whatever cxlass makes the folks in the NorthEast happy. I wll race my 1st gen RX-7 & I WILL NOT race the car in ITB............

David,

What is your problem? Do you think that we can pick up more chicks with an ITA car than we can with ITB car? Are your friends more imppressed by 7" wide wheels?

First off I am from the MIDWEST division and I want the 1st gen RX7 moved to B. So this isn't a North East issue. Because I am in the Midwest I would have to race against Chris Albin in ITB. So don't accuse me of looking for easy wins or wanting to an over-dog. I have been on track with Chris alot and I know him best by his tail lights.

Currently we have IT7 in MiDiv and it is fun class. All of the RX7 guys I have raced with in the Midwest are first class on and off the track. I really appreciate the work put in by Mike Trier and others to make this class happen. However, there is no way that we can expect IT7 to grow like SM or even increase in the numbers necessary to sustain the class over the next 5 years. I am in this for the long haul, I don't see IT as a stepping stone to production and I want competition.

A move to ITB means that the variety of cars I can race with goes up. It also means that as some cars fall from favor new ones will take their place. You could argue that this is what is happening in ITA right now. But at present there doesn't seem to be a real way to compete with old and new ITA cars as it stands now.

Others have suggested that the RX7 can be competitive in ITA. They point to race tracks were they beat ITA cars. In the Midwest we can do that too - St Louis is an excellent RX7 track. However, Mid America Motorplex, Heartland Park, Hallet, and Memphis are not RX7 friendly. Of the tracks I listed which ones are more like the classic road course? No, it isn't St Louis.

While 2005 will mark only my third year in club racing and IT I have been around this sport for along time. I have worked for good quality RX7 drivers like Charlie Clark and I have seen them attempt to keep up with CRX's with very well developed cars on this division's tracks. Trust me it didn't happen then and it ain't happening now.

Thanks Jake for getting this issue out.

Letter is forth coming. Get it done.



------------------
Scott Peterson
KC Region
IT7 #17

[ITSRX7]

New ITA track record set at the ARRC:

1:43.368

New IT7 track record set at the ARRC:

1:47.110

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[lateapex911]

Interesting...

Anthony told me after the race that he saw a 1:42.8 on his Stack data aq.

Weren't there some "issues" with T&S??

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[ITS5GB]

I'm currently building an IT7/ITB? car right now. I'm planning on having it ready for next season. What are the odds? Should I order 6" or 7" wheels.
I have run a GSL-SE the last few years in ITS. I must say that at my home track(Waterford Hills)it still is pretty competetive(podium finishes in 12 to 16 car fields). In fact, I regularly duke it out with an E36 that went to the ARRC and Q10th, F15th. Does that mean I could take it to the ARRC and expect the same? I think not.I still love racing my little first gen ITS car and look forward to getting the 12a finished. If you look at results from CenDiv and Waterford(where IT7 and ITB are in the same run group, and the two classes are very well mixed), I would conclude that ITB is the place to be. Just my 2 cents from a relative rookie(3yrs).
Greg Blastic
*just another 40 something guy trying to have some fun*