2nd Gen ECU - Programmable air/fuel

[benspeed]

Has anybody gone to the effort of getting their ECU customized for fuel/air programability? (Legal)

I've heard that SpeedSource offers a Motec product for $3500ish. Is there any alternatives to that? Looking to make more legal power if possible.

Thanks,

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BenSpeed
#33 ITS RX7
BigSpeed Racing
[email protected]
NNJR

[C. Ludwig]

A Haltech E6 series EMS is compact enough to be disassembled and installed inside the Mazda ECU. The arguement I've heard and tend to go along with it that you would still need to use the factory plugs on the side of the ECU and the factory harness to interface with sensors, injectors and coils. The intricate soldering this would require, while not off the charts difficult IMO, would be disheartening to some. A used E6K can be had for $500+ on up to a NIB E6X for around $1100. Even if you took it to a professional electronics shop with the required schematics and payed them way too much to do the soldering you're way ahead of the $3500 Motec price. Having said that the Haltech is cerainly not the end all be all of the EMS world and the Motec (any model) is certainly more powerful and will offer more features. But, again IMO, a Haltech (or any of the other entry level EMSs) offer all the features and progamability you'll ever need. And having worked with several systems I can say that they work and are easy to tune.

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Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv

[This message has been edited by C. Ludwig (edited October 14, 2004).]

[benspeed]

Thanks Chris - good info. Hope to race you someday!

Any other cool ideas out there?

Cheers,



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BenSpeed
#33 ITS RX7
BigSpeed Racing
[email protected]
NNJR

[C. Ludwig]

Autronics' box comes in an encloser that looks very, VERY similar to a stock RX-7 box. Somehow I have not been able to find their website today. It's another powerful EMS that has the advantage of looking stock...though it's not.


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Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv

[C. Ludwig]

http://www.autronic.com/page_files/sm2_kit.htm

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Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv

[bldn10]

Ben, I loaned out my GCR - are you sure that programable A/F is legal? Wouldn't that involve a new wire from the ECU to a knob?

I don't know for sure but I would think that the MoTeC from SpeedSource would include a value-added benefit in that they would give it an initial setup specifically for a 2nd. gen. RX-7. Even if your own car differed in some respects, I bet those guys could get closer than the average driver could on his own, unless you are going to pay for dyno time. Indeed, dyno time should probably be assumed as part of the cost of any such conversion.

Who from up there is coming to the ARRC?

[benspeed]

Here's the GCR ITS rules on the ECU:

6. Fuel injected cars may alter or replace the
engine management computer, or ECU,
provided that all modifications are done within
the original OEM ECU housing. Only the stock
(unmodified) OEM ECU connection to the
wiring harness may be used. The allowance
to modify the ECU in no way permits the
addition of wiring, sensors, or piggybacked
computers outside of the OEM ECU housing.
The stock (unmodified) wiring harness must be
used. Adjustable fuel pressure regulators are
permitted.

I think is OK to redo the electronics inside, but that's it. This rule is a little bogus because I might be able to get some real performance gains, but dropping this kind of money goes against the grain of IT racing. Not sure I'm going to do it if it's a $3500 deal, but if I can get another 15 legal HP for around $1000, I will do it.
As part of this I'll probably drop another $500-1000 on dyno tuning-since I'll be able to acutally tune.

Anybody do this mod willing to share what their dyno gains were? Gotta see what I can do to keep after those bimmers.

Nick - you running anything like this?

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BenSpeed
#33 ITS RX7
BigSpeed Racing
[email protected]
NNJR

[benspeed]

Chris - thanks for the lead on the Autronic product. I spoke to a distributor in NY and they sell the unit for $1900 and will completely install and dyno tune for another $1000. They claim that the company was a split off from Motec years back and that the products are very similar. I've also got a call in to SpeedSource - let ya know what they say. They need to see if it will fit in the OEM case - but you're right-the Autronic case looks VERY similar.

Heard some marginal/poor feedback on the Haltech products - you get what you pay for...

Cheers,

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BenSpeed
#33 ITS RX7
BigSpeed Racing
[email protected]
NNJR

[benspeed]

I spoke to SpeedSource - very knowledgable folks. They cautioned me that only as a last effort once all other aspects of the car are perfect should I consider doing the Motec upgrade. Also, they indicated that the skill in tuning properly has been hard for other shops to replicate and that sending the car to them has always been the way that people realized the gains. They have not had good results mailing the box and then having others install and tune. Intstalled and tuned at their shop is $4000. (not including shipping your car)

Looks like I'll be passing on this - too much $$ for the 5-15 hp gain. Maybe I'll drink a Red Bull before the next race and hope a little mental clarity gets me that .5 of a second! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

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BenSpeed
#33 ITS RX7
BigSpeed Racing
[email protected]
NNJR

[ITSRX7]

I suggest also staying at a Holiday Inn Express.

To add validity to Sylvain and his folks - as well as James and his at Bimmerworld...anyone can buy the hardware. The key to this stuff is having someone who KNOWS the engines inside and out being able to TUNE the ECU to make it work. Otherwise it's just a big waste. I know the biggest gains Syl can find are UNDER the curve - and those are the most valuable.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[benspeed]

Andy - I'll try anything that's legal - does the Red Roof in Loudon count? http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

I also spoke with Mike at ISC - they haven't had any real favorable luck doing this. They did confirm that the SpeedSource unit is the best value out there, but again - only as a last resort for a few mid-range ponies and torque.

Cheers!