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tbtapper
07-29-2004, 11:19 AM
Not looking for any "secrets" from anyone just trying to get some base lines.

Just started ITs with a very nicely preped RX7.

Car runs great seems to be very competitive in over all speed. (too bad I'm not up to speed, Yet!) Don't know too much technically about the rotary so I have some questions.

Questions are this: On the 13b motors what sort of rpm shift points are folks running?

What sort of water/oil temps are folks looking to maintain??

Opinions on ratios on premixing (no oil injector) and opinions on lube. (Mo1, dino ... )

Any specific areas to watch out for like transmissions, rearends, brake rotors etc.

For me this is a hobby. Basically an "odd" way to relax.

I'm realistic about being competitive with folks that have raced for years and work in collateral industries.

I want the car to last reasonably long given the use. But I don't want to always be the backmarker either.

So any baselines that you experienced racers are willing to give me would be really appreciated.

Thanks

tbtapper
RX7 no.9 ITs

Mike Spencer
07-29-2004, 12:06 PM
You won't get any "secrets" from me, since I'm new at this too and don't have any! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

I'm sure others will chime in with more specific info, but I can offer a few basics.

First, you probably won't be a backmarker (after a little seat-time) no matter what. ITS typically runs with other slower classes and the RX-7 is a strong car in that class (the E-36 BMW notwithstanding).

I shift my 12A at about 8-grand. It will spin higher, but the "nut behind the wheel" is still the weakest link and I don't feel the additional RPMs are worth it (speed vs. wear). Others more knowledgable will probably have other opinions. I'm just being "safe".

re: Pre-mixing. Do NOT use synthetic. It leaves residue you don't want. A good quality dino oil is best. (opinions re: which is best vary WIDELY)

As far as "weak" areas, Mazda transmissions have a bad reputation. They need to be shifted with your wrist, rather than your forearm. I honestly don't know about 2nd gens, but rear-end ratios in 1st gens are generally high 4's or even low 5's. (Running a stock rear-end ratio COULD cause you to have slower times)

Speaking of ratios, the 2nd Gen came with 3 (I believe) different 5th gear ratios. The numerically highest is best (something like .81 as opposed to .78), although depending on the track you may not ever get INTO 5th.

One final thought. Overheating a rotary will KILL IT! I would shut down halfway through the last lap if the engine temps started climbing. Trying to "nurse it home" to pick up a $10 plaque (to me) isn't worth the price of a new engine.

I'm obviously biased, but I think you picked a great car. I hope you enjoy it!


------------------
Mike Spencer
NC Region
ITA/7 RX-7 (finally)
1990 RX-7 Convertible (street car)

dyoungre
07-29-2004, 01:06 PM
I'm most familiar with the 12A (from a racing standpoint). Temperatures: Oil max should be about 200, and water around 185. You actually start losing power much above.

------------------
Dave Youngren
NER ITA RX7 #61

Mike Guenther
07-29-2004, 02:11 PM
Tapper, here's all my secrets;
*My shift light comes on at 7800 and I shift somewhere between 7800 - 8100, rarely over that.
*Water temp is usually 190 - 200*F
Oil is between 220 - 240*F when I come off the track.
*The 4:88 is a common rear and the 5:12 is desirable at many tracks - I'm still looking for a 5:12.
*I heard that synthetic lube works better at a pre-mix than non-synthetic because it doesn't get broken down in the gas and gives better lubrication at higher temps. I use regular oil Valvolene VR1, 20w50, in the crank case with the lube metering pump plus a pre-mix of Amsoil synthetic. Haven't had any build up problems I know of.
*The transmission IS the weak link. I have one rebuilt about once a year by Mike VanSteenburg at www.iscracing.net (http://www.iscracing.net)
*Be safe and have fun -
Mike

ddewhurst
07-29-2004, 06:59 PM
Mike G., I am in the process of converting from Spec-7 to ITA/7. Went out this past weekend & the trans is stuck between 3rd & 4th. At this point I have new header/exhaust, radiators, carb & rearend. Shifted in Spec-7 at approx 6,800 rpm. Shifted this past weekend at 7,800 (pulls great up till 7,800) & the thing stuck while going to 4th & wouldn't go into any gear.

How many races do you do with the Mike Van rebuilt tranmission before rebuild ?

Thanks http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David

Mike Guenther
07-30-2004, 12:13 PM
Dew, I usually race about 8 weekends per year. When I was in IT-7 I always kept a spare transmission ready because once they start going it can become worthless fast. At my race school I accidently down shifted into reverse in the race at the end of the first day. I lost 5th but finished the school. VanSteenburg rebuilt that tranny and also made the shifter feel a lot more accurate. He modified the forks to make it a bit stronger. With the second gen I shift at higher RPMs than with the first gen. I have only had the 2nd gen for a bit more that a year but have had the tranny rebuilt once already. It is giving me a slight grind now whenever I down shift into third, so I know it will crap out sometime soon. I'm trrying to be patient with my downshifts to make it last awhile. Typically I have been getting a year between rebuilds.

Mike Spencer
07-30-2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Mike Guenther:
...*I heard that synthetic lube works better at a pre-mix than non-synthetic because it doesn't get broken down in the gas and gives better lubrication at higher temps. I use regular oil Valvolene VR1, 20w50, in the crank case with the lube metering pump plus a pre-mix of Amsoil synthetic. Haven't had any build up problems I know of.

Mike -

No temper tantrums, just genuine confusion. I have heard that using synth in pre-mix is a big No-No for YEARS! Is this a new product you speak of?

BTW, one of the places I've seen information about this is; http://www.bacomatic.org/~dw/tech/tech.htm


------------------
Mike Spencer
NC Region
ITA/7 RX-7 (finally)
1990 RX-7 Convertible (street car)

Mike Guenther
07-30-2004, 04:27 PM
Mike, I was told by Carl Sloan of SAS Racing, www.sasracing.com (http://www.sasracing.com) , when I bought a newly rebuilt first gen motor, that the petroleum oils completely break down in the gas if you premix. They have some chance to lubricate when injected into the gas just prior to ignition, but pre-mixed they are completely dissolved and diluted in the gas. The synthetics don't dissolve as completely in the gas and therefore have better lubrication capability when used in a premix. It made sense to me. Since I was giving him over $4 grand for the motor, I thought I better take his advise and follow his instructions. Carl has a lot of experience with Mazda motors in every class and he would know if there were problems with build up, sludge or whatever when he opens up the motors he builds. I've been doing it the way he told me ever since. Now I have a 2nd gen with injectors and I still pre-mix with synthetic. No problems yet.

Mike Guenther
07-30-2004, 04:44 PM
One other thing about synthetics. I had a great 1977 Pontiac Firebird that I drove very hard for over 250,000 miles on Texaco Haveline 10W40. With about 30,000 miles on it I let a shop talk me into trying a Mobile synthetic on an oil change. I drove it about 50 miles and it was tapping so bad it was scary. I dumped that rather expensive synthetic oil and put in the Haveline. I sold the car with over 250,000 miles and it still ran like a champ. A complete chassis rebuild, new A/C and a couple of custom paint jobs, but only one tune-up and spark plug change and no engine trouble ever in over 20 years that I had that car. Needless to say, I'm no fan of synthetics in the crank case. I use Haveline 5w20 in my V10 Excursion. 80,000 miles in the last two years. I used to use only Haveline in my race cars also, but Carl Sloan said he preferred Valvoline VR1, so I've been using that in the race car for the last few years.

cpa7man
08-01-2004, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by Mike Guenther:
Tapper, here's all my secrets;
*My shift light comes on at 7800 and I shift somewhere between 7800 - 8100, rarely over that.
*Water temp is usually 190 - 200*F
Oil is between 220 - 240*F when I come off the track.
*The 4:88 is a common rear and the 5:12 is desirable at many tracks - I'm still looking for a 5:12.
*I heard that synthetic lube works better at a pre-mix than non-synthetic because it doesn't get broken down in the gas and gives better lubrication at higher temps. I use regular oil Valvolene VR1, 20w50, in the crank case with the lube metering pump plus a pre-mix of Amsoil synthetic. Haven't had any build up problems I know of.
*The transmission IS the weak link. I have one rebuilt about once a year by Mike VanSteenburg at www.iscracing.net (http://www.iscracing.net)
*Be safe and have fun -
Mike

Mike hit it on the nose.
My water temps saw 210 4th of July weekend, oil temps 220 or so.
I run AMSOIL 2-cycle as well(premix 1oz. per galloon of fuel). This past few races I put AMSOIL 20/50 racing in the crankcase. I think it ran better on the Valvoline VR-1 that I was using.
I'm having some shift issues as well. Missing 2-3 shift more frequently.

Good luck the ITS RX-7's are fast. Most races they lap me at least once.




------------------
Paul Pineider
ITA 05 (Soudiv)

Festus E. Simkins
08-02-2004, 10:16 AM
Well, here's another opinion. Mine is a 12A that is a factory authorized rebuild, i.e., iron apex seals. I typically shift at 7500 to 8000 rpm. It has seen over 9000 rmp a few times. Mechanical overrev, i.e., 5th to 2nd gear. And once in the heat of battle I forgot to shift. I was wondering why I lost power. When I looked I was at 9300 rpm. Engine lived but it really got my attention. I premix 1 oz to 1 gal of 87 octane gas. I use Yamalube "R" synthetic. I have been running the motor since 1996. It has seen 225 Degrees F for an entire race. I really get worried if it gets to 220. Usually run between 195 and 210. I run 10w40 Castrol dino oil. I change every 3rd weekend. I have been using the same transmission that came out of a 100,000 mile car since 1996. It needs a rebuld. It is hard to find the 5th to 4th downshif or 5th to 3rd down shif if you get in a hurry. If you shift it easy no problem. Try and shift real fast and you get "hang up."

I have talked to acouple of guys that have race built motors with carbon or ceramic seals. They are routinely twisting 9300 rpm and running 512 gears. I really don't know their rebuild schedule.

That's all I know.

Drive well.

tbtapper
08-02-2004, 02:59 PM
Thanks for the replys. Always interesting opinions when lube comes into the discussion.

I don't know what type of seals I have. I have found the builder. Just waiting for a call back.

My engine seems willing to pull well past 8k but I'm guessing I'm into diminishing returns and much quicker trips to the rotary doctor.

I'm a little unclear on the premix scenario. Seems like some folks are premixing AND running the factory injection setup.

Would this not put more oild than neessary into the combustion chamber. I premix oil with the gas at 1oz. to a gallon.

This seems pretty common but I do NOT have a functional factory injector system. If I'm way underlubing let me know.

Guess I'll stick with Mo1. Always used their products in everything I own with apparently good success.

Mike Spencer
08-02-2004, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by tbtapper:
...I'm a little unclear on the premix scenario. Seems like some folks are premixing AND running the factory injection setup.

Would this not put more oild than neessary into the combustion chamber. I premix oil with the gas at 1oz. to a gallon.

This seems pretty common but I do NOT have a functional factory injector system. If I'm way underlubing let me know.

Guess I'll stick with Mo1. Always used their products in everything I own with apparently good success.

Again, I'm a newbie and am just doing things the way the car's previous owner had done it. If this flys in the face of current practice, I would LOVE to hear about it! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

I use both. This makes sense to me because I have heard/read in the past that the amount of oil required (whether injection, pre-mix or both) goes up with RPM. If this is true, one COULD surmise that the factory settings on the oil injectors would be for "typical" RPM range (like 3-4,000). Not the 7-8,000 we see.

As always, your mileage may vary...


------------------
Mike Spencer
NC Region
ITA/7 RX-7 (finally)
1990 RX-7 Convertible (street car)

Quickshoe
08-02-2004, 06:34 PM
I always used 1oz to a gallon premix only. No injection. Yes the stock injection does adjust for throttle position.

The premix will keep the oil/fuel ratio constant.

I utilized Blendzall. Never had any lube issues with it in all my years of racing air-cooled 2 strokes or rotaries...so must be pretty good.
With any castor bean based oil it will separate from the fuel when it is allowed to sit for long periods, the separation process appears to be expedited by cold weather. So, I always mixed it 5 gallons at a time and put it in the tank prior to running a session.

I did utilize Maxima 927 when I could not find Blendzall and was happy with it as well.

If you premix only you should be cool with Synthetic in the "crank"case.

I would use the best non-synthetic 2 stroke oil at 1oz to 1 gal. Synthetic in the crankcase with no oil injection.

------------------
Daryl DeArman

C. Ludwig
08-02-2004, 06:42 PM
Daryl, you've never found bean oils to leave deposits? The rap I always heard on them in my two-stroke days was they lube well but gunk up exhaust power valves and manifolds. But hey, they smell SOOO sweet! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

I premix only. Throw back to my two-stroke days also. Though rotary injection pump failures are fairly uncommon I just don't trust injection pumps at all. Pre-mix and you know it's in there. Pre-mix @ 100:1 with Redline synthetic two-stroke oil. Mobil 1 in the crankcase.

------------------
Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv

08-02-2004, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Mike Guenther:
One other thing about synthetics. I had a great 1977 Pontiac Firebird that I drove very hard for over 250,000 miles on Texaco Haveline 10W40. With about 30,000 miles on it I let a shop talk me into trying a Mobile synthetic on an oil change. I drove it about 50 miles and it was tapping so bad it was scary. I dumped that rather expensive synthetic oil and put in the Haveline. I sold the car with over 250,000 miles and it still ran like a champ. A complete chassis rebuild, new A/C and a couple of custom paint jobs, but only one tune-up and spark plug change and no engine trouble ever in over 20 years that I had that car. Needless to say, I'm no fan of synthetics in the crank case. I use Haveline 5w20 in my V10 Excursion. 80,000 miles in the last two years. I used to use only Haveline in my race cars also, but Carl Sloan said he preferred Valvoline VR1, so I've been using that in the race car for the last few years.

I lost a rotary after switching to synthetic, and lost another after swithing from castrol 20/50 to 10/30. there were other factors but I thought it was worth mentioning/

Quickshoe
08-02-2004, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by C. Ludwig:
The rap I always heard on them in my two-stroke days was they lube well but gunk up exhaust power valves and manifolds. But hey, they smell SOOO sweet! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif


I didn't have any problems and that was at 6.5oz/gal which is a lot of oil. An important distinction--my 2 stroke racing was done in Piston Port classes, no reeds or power valves to gunk up. Carb rebuilds were a matter of routine maintenance anyway. Pumper diaphrams get tired pretty quick at 14,000+ pulses per minute.

Didn't have any issues in the 12A, perhaps injectors and operable 5th and 6th port actuators might be a legit concern.

------------------
Daryl DeArman

Boswoj
08-02-2004, 09:25 PM
Wow - lots of opinions and not much tech on this one! Synthetics are wonderful examples of modern technology, but also highly misunderstood. There are TONS of info on the internet written by people with Phd's in various engineering disciplines - it is really wothwhile to take the time to read them. For those of you on the short (attention span) bus, the synopsis is this:

In low load, non-critical applications synthetics and mineral oils perform very similarly. Mineral oils are refined from crude oils stocks and carry their natural molecular structure (plus refinement and additives)into the finished product. Synthetics have "engineered" molecules intended to produce a specific end result. It is when oils start reaching toward the outside edges of thsir operating parameters that the differences really start to show. Synthetics are designed to have more stable viscosities throughout their operating temperature range. They resist temperature related chemical change better. They "cling" or wet the surface to be protected better. I some cases, much lighter synthetics can equal the performance of heavier mineral oils, which allows less "churning" or parasitic drag in a gearbox or rear end. In some cases synthetics have superior heat transfer characteristics which allow vital parts to run cooler. Good quality mineral oil is still an effective and affordable lubricant for many applications. My personal feeling is that the one thing that will kill a rotary quickest is HEAT. Since synthetics generally cool better, help create less heat in the first place by having better friction characteristics, and resist vaporization, viscosity change, and breakdown better than dino oil at upper limit temps - I'm going to continue taking that extra bit of insurance for my expensive race motor. I am in no way connected to ANY oil selling or even touting one oil over another (and the short bus jokes were meant to be humorous - not piss anyone off!). Just for the record, I use either Mobil One for regular racing duty, or Amsoil for the hot week-ends, and I premix 4 oz to 5 gallons of Amsoil pre-mix oil with no injector pump.

Good Luck - hope to see you all Racin'

Boswoj

PS - not all synthetics are created equal either! Some are fantastic and well worth the extra dollars. Others are purported to not equal the best mineral oils so DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

[This message has been edited by Boswoj (edited August 02, 2004).]

Tak
08-02-2004, 10:38 PM
Oil experiences.
I shared a house with two 125cc two stroke motorcycle racers (they opened the engines every 3-4 hours). Over two seasons they tried every premix they could find. Conclusions: Redline racing two stroke oil left the fewest deposits. My two season old racing rotary (complete ground up race build) with Mo1 in the crank and redline racing 2-stroke premix (with a functional stock injector--it's illegal to defeat it in IT FYI) had virtually zero deposits in the combustion chambers and seals, and no damage to the bearings after losing a water line and thoroughly overheating the engine. All the rubber bits were toasted and all the seal springs lost tension, but the bearings showed no wear. No indication of scuffing between rotor or side housings; no indication of rotor gear damage either.

Tak
#29 ITA
SFR SCCA

mrbill
08-04-2004, 06:50 PM
test

mrbill
08-04-2004, 07:25 PM
Hello there, almost forgot about this site..

-I ran a IT7 in fla region 95-00, hope this helps....

heres are the random thoughts I can remember:

heat kills,

but I ran valvoline RACING 20/50 and saw 210 all day long, and often 220, 260 on oil temp, change it each weekend. motors ran good.

ran 3oz amsoil 2 cycle oil per 5 gal fuel,

ran super blue brake fluid, w/ 2 ducts, small aimed at rotor, plus center duct.
hawk blue front brakes, blacks rear, used street rotors worked best, and 'aged' brake rotors (sat in back yard) worked ok. Normally cracked a rotor a weekend.

tri link rear end worked best, (better than pan hard), the cheaters got diffent gears (out of miata, and rwd 626) 3rd, 5th. - best, (also in 2nd gen),

lollypop disallowed intake porting, exaust helps a little.

waterpumps tend to cavitate, so we pulled thermostat, and added washer to restrict water flow. run large alt pully, (some would disconnect for qualifying or even sprint race)

hoosiers last 2 weekends but are slower than toyos 2nd weekend. kuhmos about par w/ toyos.

exaust: racing beat header 2 pipes all way back behind axle for collector. dynomax muffler. (never extend muffler past bumper) strenghten bumpers/fenders w/ foam in can.

I ran tokio adj shocks w/ 400lb springs, ackerman kit worked well, 79 carb was best, and we closed up waterjacked.

ISC source for many parts, including brake ducts, oil lines.

trans are weak. 3rd gear mostly went,

Air filters were free, so the bottoms were coated w/ heat shields, as were the carb insulator (and extensions).

lastly keeping the driver cool is worth 2 seconds a lap, after the first 10 min, (at least in florida), camelback, cool suit, airducts, are cheap horsepower.

try to think of racing as a hobby, not a blood sport. resist the red mist... no sense killing yourself or anyone else for a ten dollar bowling trophy.. eh?

lateapex911
08-05-2004, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by mrbill:
lollypop disallowed intake porting, exaust helps a little.


Help me understand this point...are you saying that exhaust porting in IT7 is a good (and acceptable) way to acheive bettter horsepower?



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

CaptainWho
08-06-2004, 12:24 AM
From what I've read, it's a good way, but I don't believe that it's an acceptable way in an IT car. Of course, my interpretation of the GCR and ITCS has been wrong before.

------------------
Doug "Lefty" Franklin
NutDriver Racing (http://www.nutdriver.org)

bcarter
08-06-2004, 12:48 AM
We run in Canada under different rules, we run streetports, but a rotary is a rotary.

I shift usually around 7500 - 8000, but the red fog sometimes takes me into 8500+.

I was running in the 195 - 210 degree range, but just had a new 3 row rad built, and this last weekend never got over 185. The weather was not too hot, but the car almost ran too cool. Neat, as I agree "heat kills". I also blow out the rad with my air hose after every race weekend to clear out the crap.

I put 4 oz. oil in 25 liters of fuel, el cheapo low octane, and run the OMP.(I just don't trust it, and we run higher rpm than stock) I figure the cheapest insurance you can buy is oil. I use Amsol 2 cycle for the premix, and Pennzoil for the pan. I change the engine oil after each race weekend...see above re: insurance. My plugs are exactly the right colour , with no build up.

Transmissions are crap. We have to run stock, and they fall apart. I just changed out the tail bushing, the yoke, the rear seal, a bunch of bearings, the shift forks, clips and a bunch of bits. They seem to fail mostly at the rear end, and end up spewing oil. Get a few spare junkyard tranys, as they change out in 45 minutes. Rear seals are easy to change, and change them often.

Duct your front brakes if allowed. I was going through rotors every second weekend, and bearings as well. I put in the MazdaSpeed duct fittings, with 3" quality tubing, and some eavestrough funnels thingys for the front air dam from Home Depot. I also re-grease the front bearings after every race. This year I am still on the same rotors and bearings. Keep the brakes and rotors cool, and bearings greased.

Racing beat header, Magnaflow muffler, 2 x 2 1/8" pipes back to a "Y" into the muffler, with two 8" flex units in the pipes just behind the flange to allow some flex. I had a problem with the pipes breaking.

A good tach, and some gauges, all non-stock, and a steel gas pedal, with a magnet in my right shoe. ( ha ha )

------------------
G. Brooke Carter
Wheat Buckley Racing
# 10 Challenge Car
2003 Class Champion
Calgary, Alberta
http://www.guyons.com/pictures/photos_cars/06_30_rx7_brook2_150.jpg

[This message has been edited by bcarter (edited August 06, 2004).]

Mike Guenther
08-06-2004, 08:51 AM
I have read here about the "Florida Engines" and I'm sure they're all "South Florida Engines" Particularly IT-7.
Who is mrbill?

pgipson
08-08-2004, 01:15 PM
The GCR I have says (in 12.D.2.a) for Rotary engines (only):

Any porting or polishing is prohibited.

Seems pretty clear, and the rule was enforced pretty well when I was involved with IT racing in the SE 15+ years ago.

lateapex911
08-08-2004, 05:59 PM
Well, I know what the GCR says, and I know of the performance potential, I was just interested in what Mrbill thought was kosher or non kosher, and what he ran on his car....

...his response was deafening in it's silence...

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited August 08, 2004).]

Marmot
08-08-2004, 10:26 PM
I'm in the process of building an ITS RX-7 and made the mistake of assuming that removing the OMP was okay since it didn't affect performance. I had a copy of the rulebook but didn't confirm this until after removing the whole OMP system and installing a blocking off plate. Wrote it off as a learning experience and spent a weekend putting the system back in. As much as it pained me, I bought all new lines...oil and vacuum so I could rebuild the system right.

That being said...whats the deal? The rules are supposed to be geared towards making racing affordable. Switching rotaries from oil injection to pre-mix is a cheap way of increasing reliability without effecting performance so why isn't it allowed? Not pissed, just trying to understand.

Quickshoe
08-08-2004, 10:38 PM
As far as reliability goes, just premix as well. Adjust the OMP so it introduces as little 'crank'case oil as possible. When it is working you won't be adding too much additional oil into the fuel and if it fails you'll be protected.

------------------
Daryl DeArman

Mike Guenther
08-15-2004, 02:23 PM
...his response was deafening in it's silence...
Jake Gulick

Hey Jake,
"Oh no....Mr.Bill..." its probably one of those "South Florida" engines with the speed secrets.

mrbill
08-18-2004, 01:19 PM
test2

mrbill
08-18-2004, 01:55 PM
Here I am, you can email me at [email protected].

I dont race any more since I sold my car to a richard matthews in scr... (which I think he totaled the 1st season... (ran out of talent))

I ran #35 white, ita / it7, in fla region from 95-00. -check race results for sarrc/fla region/cfr..

In no way do I recommend cheating, and porting is cheating, in rotories.

Fla had a lot of good rotory speed shops , ISC, Speedsource, sas, rototech, petit, etc...

Fla also had some pretty fast cars, and lots of door banging... I think we had faster cars because of what I saw from out of region cars comming down for sarrc points. granted it was unfamilar track, but... well look at the sarrc points from back then...

One thing we had down here, was access to island parts, sometimes the mixing and matching was legal, (liberal interpertation of rules), and sometimes is was cheating.


regardless, I never protested anyone, (or been protested) even though I knew some of my friends were questionable.

Pick any of the top cars,(95-00) and I had a good idea what they were doing.

I mentioned what some guys do, so you can be prepared.... FYI only!

the gearbox was the best way to cheat when I got out. hard to detect. At the sarrc in daytona, we often saw cars on blocks, while a tech was rotating drive shaft and counting axle revolutions.

also in 1979 the rx7 had larger stock ports (exaust), which were legal before the loly pop came out.

So now you know what to protest... ok?.

Regardless, I'm not running scca anylonger. (they need the 13/13 rule...imho.)

I do run some pca/pboc/nasa/chin/safe drivers ed's as time permits

I just thought I would add my .02, as I would have liked this knowledge when I started...

-I could never understand why '00 green', could run with the front ITS cars... and I couldnt touch him...

well the lolypop fixed that, and shortly there after I was able to beat him... without buying hoosiers each weekend...like his budget allowed...

-ps: the 2nd gen cars had great brakes, but had problems cooling, and needed heatexchangers to run in fla. they need the spare tire in back for wt, and the 5.12 was the hot gear.

pick up a grassroots motorsports back issue on 2nd gen mazda, about 5 yrs ago, the #70 speed source car (white at the time), was on the cover, and they discussed all the models, pros and cons.

thats it I'm done... I wont be back often, I was just surfing, and re-discovered this site again...

lastly: I was considering SM, but I'm hearing the door banging is worse than ever, and 'liberal interpertations of the rules' is going on... same as always... too bad a SRF is so expensive...

-all the best.... mrbill.

mrbill
08-18-2004, 03:50 PM
lets see if my old car photo will post...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/ftl...lracing-rx7.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/ftldiver/mrbillracing-rx7.jpg)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/ftl...iver/lonnme.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/ftldiver/lonnme.jpg)

mrbill
08-18-2004, 05:37 PM
Before someone gets excited, I didnt mean 'best way to cheat' was something you should do... What I should have said was, hard to detect, and was very effective.

ps: I like the locked rear end, vs the l/s and I had trouble with the ceramic puck style clutch, but loved the centerforce dual friction. 20 adv both plugs, EGTs to tune carb/mtr. & I should have bought the ss header.... ended up buying 2 from rbeat...

ps: never, ever come to race in fla in the summer if you're from up north... you'll just melt... or drown. lol


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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/ftl...lracing-rx7.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/ftldiver/mrbillracing-rx7.jpg)

lateapex911
08-18-2004, 08:35 PM
thanks for clearing that up mrbill.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]