Hawk Blues on the rear of the ITA 7

[benracin]

Hey folks. I by mistake ordered some Hawk Blues for the rear of my car. I've actually never had to replace the brakes on the rear of the car in the year I've had it. That might be the result of some bad calipers I just replaced. Anyhoo, I'm a little worried about putting the Blues on the rear. Will they grip to much and lock up the rear? I know some people put Blacks on the back end of the car. Although I may not be there yet, I want to be a really good breaker. Road America will be the first track I'll be trying things out at. What do you folks think? If I should avoid putting them on the rears, anyone want to buy a new set of hawk blues? http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Ben
ITA 33, Land 'o' Lakes

[lateapex911]

I run blues front, blacks rear, and I have a proportioning valve, lever click style, which is usually set at about 1 click from full.

(disclaimer...your spring/shock/ sway bar/ etc. setup, as well as your braking style will affect things...this is just my setup!)

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Mike Cox]

I run Blues all the way around without a brake bias and have no problems. Jake is a better driver than me because he can adjust his bias, I'll just screw it up and spin out...............lol (or give myself another heart attack)

As far buying the hawk blues from you....

I'll start the bidding at $5.00.

Mike Cox

[its66]

He's bbaaacccckkkkkkkkkk..

Hey Mikey.

I'll bid $25, and they won't even fit my car.

Jim

[Hotshoe]

Ben:
Put them on. I run Hawk Blue pads front and back. Always a top three in ITA. Not sure what the guys up north are doing wrong....They seem to think an RX7 needs to move to ITB. I have been driving one for eleven years now and know that with a little more work I could go faster. But I would have to change more than I really want to. I like my car the way it is, Loose and predictable with throttle oversteer.

Oh, I'm in at $30.00 if you decide to sell, Sorry Mike

[moto62]

Originally posted by Hotshoe:
.... Not sure what the guys up north are doing wrong....They seem to think an RX7 needs to move to ITB..

Come on up north and I'll show you first hand what it's like to be passed by an Acura going two to three secs a lap faster on a 1.5 mile track. Heh! Heh! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif
Ray
P.S.Ben- No bids will be submitted at this time as I, along with a few others, will suggest you put the blues in and go like hell man!

[This message has been edited by moto62 (edited June 16, 2004).]

[lateapex911]

Hey, Hot...interesting comment. Have you driven Road Atlanta? If so, what were your times?

Part of the commetns are based on physics. After talking to lots of rotary gurus, the best output is in the 120 to 130 range at the wheels. And torque, well, lets not even discuss that! Now the CRX is in the mid to upper 120s at the wheels. But it races at a weight thats more than 200 pounds lighter. No big old live axle banging around out back either.

Assuming both cars are driven by highly skilled drivers, its easy to see how a CRX will corner better, brake better, and accelerate better. Physics is physics.

(And yes, I am fully aware that there is more to the picture than just those elements, but the numbers are grossly out of whack...240 pounds is a ten percent lighter car. AS Ray says, 'that's HUGE, dude!')

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[ddewhurst]

Ben, first off lets talk about the Hawk blue rears. I'll take the things for $31.00 just to get them off your hands. Don't know what I'll do with them. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif Sorry for the cheap $1.00 over bid Daryl but ain't that why (CHEAP)we race the 1st gen. Ben, will ya be at the Farm for the July 10th double ? All the parts for conversion to ITA/7 should be off the garage floor by then. I can't hurry the process & get stomped by a veteran of ITA/7.

The first gen will receive a bone for 2005. Don't know what size the bone is. The bone is not ITB. Maybe we with 1st gens should start making a bunch of paper/noise so that the bone is substantial.

Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David

[benracin]

Well thanks for the bids folks, but $31, although a nice amount of money, is still a ways less then a new set of blacks. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif Can't you cheap skates do better? Just kidding. I appreciate the offers.

I guess I'll just put them on the back and go with it! Road America baby! Anyone else going?

I'd like to be able to see an rx7 take it to the CRX's around here. My car has a ways to go before it's making good power, but getting lapped like I'm an ITC car from those guys is just a little painful.

And I'll bid $31.50! Take that David! And I'm planning on being at the farm in July so I'll see you there! My car is in pieces too and I managed a nice smoking dash last night from my latest re-wiring so I'm in the hurry up offense in order to make it to RA in 2 weeks. You should put it in high gear and make it as well. See ya.

Ben.

I run blacks in the back with a wilwood prop valve three turns down from the top, but i'll bid 35.00 on the pads. I seem to remember paying over 75.00 last summer.

[Hotshoe]

Jake:
I have only been to Road Atlanta twice. And after having to deal with "Fletch" I probably will not be going back.

My first race that I ran was over five years ago and I only turned a 1:48.181 . Which I feel like I left about 1.5 on the table. Considering we were running with the GT1 cars it was very hard to get a clean lap. I only got to run twelve laps of a fifteen lap race. I got lapped three times. Hard to concentrate when you have to keep looking in the mirror for Trans Am Cars!

My second shot was three years ago and the race was run in the rain. So I did not get a chance to work on my lines through the corners.

I do not understand why Road Atlanta has to set the mark. Why not VIR? I compete against SARRC and MARRS cars there once a year and seem to hold my own against the Hondas and Nissans.

Better yet, lets go to Carolina Motorsports Park. My last race there I was side by side with the first place ITS car at the finish.

I do not consider a fast lap run during a race to be a benchmark of a cars performance. To me it is how consistent the car can be driven at its limit over the coarse of the race. Sure any one can fly for one lap but, can they do it for the whole race? That is where I usually capitalize on my cars performance.

[Mike Cox]

OK. OK I'll go in for $36.79. That's all the money I have left in the world.

I need some sympathy, (and spare parts for the car) the kids needs new shoes and my engine rebuild was very expensive.

$70,000.00 for an engine rebuild but I now have the heart and the "blood flow" of a 16 year old.

I don't even have to support Mark Martin's sponser anymore.

so take that hotshoe and Jim



[This message has been edited by Mike Cox (edited June 16, 2004).]

[Hotshoe]

Hey Mike:

Glad to hear that you are recovering well. 70 large for a new oil pump? Better come with a good warranty. Did they give you some steel braided lines? Maybe even a cooler? To keep that swelling of pride cooled down. LOL

I'll up my bid to $40.99

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by Hotshoe:
Jake:
My first race that I ran was over five years ago and I only turned a 1:48.181 . Which I feel like I left about 1.5 on the table.

I do not understand why Road Atlanta has to set the mark.


.... Sure any one can fly for one lap but, can they do it for the whole race? That is where I usually capitalize on my cars performance.




Sorry to hijack the thread, but it's all over the place anyway...

If your 48.2 was under the current configuration, it is a very respectable time. (under the IT7 pole time the ARRCs last year)
If you could go even a second faster, you would have been under the fast race laps by a half second.

Why Road Atlanta? Well, I knew you were close to there, and its the best we can do for common ground. A lot of known fast guys run there, so it has some value as a comparison tool.

Relative to the ITA cars, you would be, at your projected fast time, about 3 seconds a lap off the pace, and they did indeed run that pace for the entire race.

And the fast ITS guys were 3 more seconds ahead of that.....

What I'm getting at is the analysis of race results is very important.

There was a thread in the "specific models" section, where a guy wth an MR2 had decided he needed to do a little work on his car as he wasn't winning consistently...some seconds and thirds were creeping into his results! A few posts later we learn that hes racing against average fields of 3-4 guys! A trip up north will have him running 15th if he's lucky! (very lucky!)

So, it's all about comparing well driven cars on equal turf as much as possible.



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[JeffYoung]

Truth to that Jake, and to be fair to the guys up North, it does seem like ITA in the NEDiv is (a) large and (B) fast. Perhaps not as true down here, we sometimes have 4-5 car ITA fields at VIR.

But the same is true for RX7s, as there are maybe more well-built, well-driven 12a RX7s in the SEDiv. I watched the Sunday race at CMP (I had brake problems that kept me out) and Rick was, as he says, side by side with an ITS RX7 at the checkers (an ITA Miata won).

So, CMP is not a horsepower track you say? Well, at VIR the IT7 class record is I think a second or so UNDER the ITA record and there are three-four guys who are usually as quick or faster than most A cars.

So, for us in the SEDiv, or at least the North Carolina Region, talk of the RX7 to ITB sounds (and not trying to be rude here) silly. These cars race with S and A cars just fine down here, and in fact win more than they lose (against A cars).

[lateapex911]

Interesting stuff, Jeff. I have looked at results, and I've seen some eye opening things. I've already messed this thread up. can you shoot me a private email? I'd love to understand this better.

Or call if you like 203 521 1530...


------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[benracin]

Maybe we should just start a new thread, "what do them folks got/do, that we don't got/do?" I'm interested in what makes these cars tick as well. Of course, that might be giving away top secret knowledge.

[Mike Cox]

Ben,

All you have to do is ask any of us and we'll give you all the advice you need on what makes these cars tick. I've known these guys for a long time and they will help you with anything they can.

HOWEVER:

I would only trust about 10 % of what they say as the truth.

AND:

if you really want to know how to make these cars go really fast, you would be a pal and just send me those brake pads and I'll tell you all my speed secrets. (and most of "hotshoe's" too)


Mike

[Hotshoe]

Mike:

What 10% of that are we supposed to believe? Shouldn't you (1st) be fast, to be considered having (2nd) speed secrets? LOL

I couldn't help it........."Set it by the curb and tape a trash bag to it".....I'm still laughing about that one.

Your turn.........

[miketrier]

I had always run blues on the rear until 2 years ago and got a set of blacks. I didn't like them at all-made the rears grab. I didn't change rotors at the same time. Put in the old blues and it worked fine and has since with a new set of blues. I don't have any idea why the blacks made the rears lock. Yes, I changed the proportioning valve, both ways, nothing helped other than going back to blues.
I bid $50. I'll take delivery at Blackhawk July 10.
#99 ITA/7

[This message has been edited by miketrier (edited June 20, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by miketrier (edited June 20, 2004).]

[benracin]

I think this is all pretty funny. I mentioned at the top that I was just going to put them on and go with it and yep, the brake pads got put on the car just this weekend. But lets keep the bidding going! If it gets high enough, I'll buy a new pair and just sell them to you guys! I'll up the bid to $52.50!

And Mike, you can take delivery of these brake pads at Blawkhawk when I out brake you going into turn 1!! Yee haw!

(never met you in person I think Mike, hope you don't mind a little fun racin' trash talk. It's one of my better racing skills, you can ask Planet6racing.)

Ben.

[Mike Cox]

Hotshoe,
I can't believe you would treat me this way. I have a heart attack and my wife left me for an ITS driver (at least he wasn't a SM driver), the kids forgot Father's day. and then you do this to me?

Guess we need to meet at a track soon and have a beer and tell more lies.

Ben, we all trash talk (just ask ITS66), he's the worst of all of us. Plus he can't drive. But then again he works for Budwieser so we tolerate him.

Mike

[ddewhurst]

Let's see now Ben. So far just from this site post there are 3 ITA/7 cars. Hey, but don't worry about my car cause it's just in it's infancy stage. If Mike Picko shows ya'll have all ya can handle my friend & that ain't trash talk. Steve Hays didn't show last year & he is also a hand full. Shall I go on ???????????? Remember the dark green HORNET 4 door that paddocs with ya.

Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David

ps: There's less parts on the garage floor today. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/tongue.gif That's trashing my man....

[ddewhurst]

Mike, is that Budwieser stuff you talk of the same as lizard deposit ?

[its66]

My therapist says I shouldn't let things like this bother me anymore.

ITS66

[Mike Cox]

Your wife paid me to say things that bother you since she just took out a larger life insurance policy on you. Plus, she and I have been having secret meetings while you're on the track. I sure like being in a different race group than you now.

M

[benracin]

UPDATE: Brakes were awesome! I may have been down on power at some points around the track, but under the brakes I made up 3-4 positions each race. Of course fuel problems would later let those positions back around me, but I got them at some point! Managed a 4th with a car that would run out of gas going into the kink at RA. Made for much fun. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

For those cars that were around the yellow and blue RX7 at Road America this weekend, really nice racing with you.

Ben
LOL #33 ITA RX7