2nd Gen ITS Shocks

[paulydee]

Hey Gang,

After reading C.Ludwig's comments on shocks int he hybrid thread I figured I would take a poll of sorts. I am currently running KYB/AGX shocks in my `91. I had planned on upgrading them befroe the start of the 2004 season.

What is the general consensus about shocks applications? I don't plan on spending over a grnad per corner so the Dynamic Suspension type of setup is out of the question. I was thinking of the Koni's, but Chris mentioned the Bilstiens. What are the advantages/disadvantages of one vs. the other?



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Paul D'Angelo
73 ITS CENDIV
Indy Region
http://www.iridiumracing.com
http://www.iridiumracing.com/Header3.jpg

[C. Ludwig]

Mine were free. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

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Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv

[ITSRX7]

We run the Koni's. Grab them from Ground Control and have them valved for your spring rates. Mastguys run 500lb springs and under (front) so a revalve isn't neccessary. Leverone (fastest RX-7 at the ARRC) runs higher and gets valving specific to his spring rate range.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region #188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com
http://www.flatout-motorsports.com/images/200_06_checkered.jpg

[Eagle7]

I'm new at this, so I don't have advice, only some limited personal experience. My car was built 5 years ago - I bought it last fall. It came to me with Koni Sports (8641-1200 front and 8041-1111 rear). They are continuously adjustable (no clicks) rebound only. One problem I've had is the adjustment changing during a session - don't know why yet. I have the stock front sway bar, and was trying to get the car less tail-happy by adjusting the front to near full firm and the rear to near full soft. I found after my last track event that one of the front shocks is totally shot - no damping at all. I have no idea if it's worn out or is defective or damaged. The rebuild cost is nearly as much as a new shock, so I plan to buy new replacements for both fronts this winter. Unless somebody changes my mind it'll be Koni Sport's again.

I understand that you need to be careful that your shocks can handle your spring rate. I run 400# front springs, and Koni said I am "about" at the limit.

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Marty Doane
ITS RX7 #13
CenDiv WMR

[Cheers!]

Has anyone seen the new bilstein P30s offered through mazdaspeedmotorsports.com and their coilover sleeve for it?

[Dave Burchfield]

Saw the new Bilstein set up earlier this morning. The struts appear to be the same Mazdaspeed units as the ones they market for the Koni Sports. The quality of those housings is very good, and they go together quite nicely.

db

[Cheers!]

Dave,

I can't seem to find the sleeves and shocks for the rear, there is little detail on these things. I called Mazdaspeed, i got was please hold, and held for several mins burning up long distance so i hung up.

It does not mention what types of springs it uses nor does it mention if there is a kit for the rear.

[Dave Burchfield]

The rears don't take a sleeve. They are a shock alone. The rear Koni that is generelly used it the one spec'd for the Porsche 916. They come with the spring perch already attached.

Hope this helps.

db

[Cheers!]

dave,

thanks for the reply, that means the spring perch for the rears are non adjustable?

-Jason

[Dave Burchfield]

The ring that the threaded collar sits on is part of the body of the shock, thus, the shock in that configuration is legal in IT.

db

[Cheers!]

Ok so now the question becomes, why is this setup so much better then the traditional ground control with konis or tokkico or KYB AGXs?

sorry for all the questions

[Dave Burchfield]

I think it all boils down to personal preference and what is easiest for you. Some of us have the luxury to walk in to the Koni NA facility and get what we want. Others have similar situations with other manufacturers. Whatever fits the individual budget and is fastest.......

[paulydee]

Whatever fits the individual budget
and is fastest.......[/B]

That was pretty much my original question, which is fastest for the money?

Koni or Bilsteins?



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Paul D'Angelo
73 ITS CENDIV
Indy Region
http://www.iridiumracing.com
http://www.iridiumracing.com/Header3.jpg

[Cheers!]

all i have is my credit card

[Dave Burchfield]

Pauly,

I would think that they are pretty comparable, not only in speed but price. I don't think you would go wrong with either.

db

[lateapex911]

Any thoughts on the Advance Design shocks from Ground Control??

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[jhill]

If you will allow a shameless advertisement/plug here I'd like to offer that I have a set of JRZ Shocks set-up for a Gen 2 ITS Mazda if anyone is interested. These are proven re-valved shocks that work exceptionally well.

Will be putting them on the Classifieds site in the next few days - NEWLY Rebuilt in 2003 to the new IT Shock specs less remote reservoirs (but let's not start another thread on that again)- 6 races in 2003 -

New with reservoirs they were $4500 - Spent $2000 in early 2003 on the retrofitting - Now will sell for $2000 with perches (no springs) and will share any set-up info as necessary. Will send direct contact info to anyone interested.

End advertisement . . .

Jeff Hill

[Dave Burchfield]

Pauly,

I went to the Bilstein booth at PRI today, and asked about the set-up for our cars. Everyone there looked at me like I was from another planet, opened the book and showed me the catalogue with the non-adjustable street performance shocks, and said that was all they had.

I thought that was very interesting. I didn't press the issue.

db

[C. Ludwig]

I wish I would of know you were going. I had a ticket but stayed home to work on Project Street Miata mainly because I didn't want to go by myself again. The guy that gave us the hookup with Bilstein was supposed to be there. If you want Bilsteins Mazdaspeed or ISC can do the job for ya.

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Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv

[Cheers!]

the company that makes the mazdaspeed bilstein coilover sleeves are http://www.awrracing.com

i called mazdaspeed and the tech people weren't there so i got refered to http://www.awrracing.com who makes the stuff for mazdaspeed. I didn't call awrracing.com yet to ask for specifics. I think i may just go with k2rd coilover sleeves with KYB AGX with their pillow ball mounts, then with Mazdatrix Caster Camber plates, Mazdatrix independant camber adjustment for the back.

[C. Ludwig]

There's nothing wrong with the Mazdatrix stuff but it's much cheaper from Mazdaspeed. Also, look for a top mount caster/camber plate. I have the Mazdatrix pieces and will probably convert to a top mount just for the added travel. Speedsource, think ISC, K2RD maybe have them.

The Bilsteins I have on my came from the factory. A friend of mine who has a USAC Silver Crown car is factory backed by Bilstein. The guy that heads their USAC program is an ex-IT racer and when my car was mentioned he offered to set us up. Bilstein built the rear shocks and the front inserts. The front inserts are from some kind of Porsche application. The rears I'm unsure of. Bilstein recommended ISC for the front mounts. They're basically a stock mount, cut open, and threaded at the top with a very nice billet cap that holds the cartridge. The Mazdaspeed pieces are heavier (stronger)and look nicer in the pics but these are quite adequate.

All I know of the contact at Bilstein is his first name...Jim. If anyone else wants the info I'll talk to my buddy and get the full story.

When they built the shocks they asked for a bunch of info. Corner weights, spring weights, driver's style, etc. I haven't gotten to drive them much but they are huge improvement over the off the shelf Konis and Tokicos I had before. Shaved something like 1.5 seconds off our laps at M-O. The front travel is much less than what I had before. The ride height needed to be lowered quite a bit. Don't have my notes here but it was something on the order of 1". The car is now nearing the minimum height reg which I've heard is not good for the suspension geometry...but it is faster, easier to drive at the limit and most importantly and what I'm happiest about is that it's more consistent over a whole session.

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Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv

[Eagle7]

Chris, are your Bilsteins adjustable? Also, what do you have for front sway bar?

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Marty Doane
ITS RX7 #13
CenDiv WMR

[Cheers!]

Chris,

Are there any size difference with the bilstein setup over the ground control koni setup? ISC racing told me i will need to run ITS style offsets for my wheels. But if they use 2.5 inch OD springs then they should have the same clearance as the traditional ground control koni setup.

[C. Ludwig]

Bilsteins are non-adjustable. Front sway bar is Suspension Technique set on soft. If I did it again I'd start with a speedway style bar. More tuning options and I'd suspect more room for brake ducting.

The Bilsteins, dimension wise, are identical in the front to the Tokicos I had before. With 40mm offset wheels Hoosier 225s rub on the lower perches with either shock. I run a 1/4" spacer on 37 and 40mm offset wheels.

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Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv