Spec RX-7 vs. Spec Miata

[Skid]

I run in a spec RX-7 class that allows street-porting but no carb mods. We don't have Spec Miata in our area but it will no doubt emerge.

I am curious if SM's run closer to each other than do Spec/Pro RX-7's. This hypothesis stems purely from the fact that carbs and timing make for the biggest HP variation in RX-7's and since these factors don't really apply in SM then these cars should be more equal.

Also, is a SM more forgiving than an RX-7? I.e. does driver skill/experience get highlighted more in an RX-7?

Any observations from the crossover folk who have built and/or raced both?

p.s. please excuse the fact that this is not a pure IT question but this is the best place on the web to get both informed RX-7 and Miata racers to answer.

[Quickshoe]

Originally posted by Skid:
Also, is a SM more forgiving than an RX-7? I.e. does driver skill/experience get highlighted more in an RX-7?


Skid,

This is the only question I feel qualified to answer. A Miata is much more forgiving than an 1st gen RX7. Of all the cars I have driven at speed, (either personally raced, or owned by others of which I've TT'd or driven while instructing) The Rx7 IS the least forgiving of the bunch.

[ddewhurst]

Skid, in what region is Spec-7 street porting legal ?

Your question I can not respond to because all I have driven is the Spec-.

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Have Fun ;)
David Dewhurst
CenDiv Milwaukee Region
Spec-7 #14

[ITSRX7]

I would go with Spec Miata because there is at least a VISIBLE path to ITA if you want to. In your area, a ported motor leaves you with one option...and what if the RX-7 people actually get their acts together Nationally? I gurantee porting will be the first one to get whacked, leaving you with a car and no class.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[lateapex911]

Good answers all, I would second the handling point. Geez...the Miata is an absolute mind reader! Great steering, nimble, and above all, forgiving. I couldn't stop laughing and smiling the last time I got out of one after 20 laps!

Short money on big fun.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Crack Monkey]

Looking at the MARRS results, where both classes are well represented, both have similar levels of competitiveness. The top tier cars are pretty close, the middle isn't too far back, and the last third is all over the place.

With a Spec RX-7, the timing, carb, and plug adjustments are pretty well known - at least in the DC region - where several of the tinkerers in the group published their tuning tricks for all to see.

[Skid]

To answer the question, I race in western Canada, based in Calgary, so ITA and RX-7 National level issues arne't germane. Our local class will remain street-ported no matter what.

Don't read too much into the query, I'm just curious if the SM's qualify/race tighter than typical Spec/Pro Rx-7's. In RX-7's, I see others and myself move a few places up or down the pack with an exhaust change or a carb change and wonder if the car-to-car variation in SM is smaller.

At the end of the day, I guess I'm wondering whether to embrace or resist the Borg when they inevitably come to town.

[bcarter]

Hey Skid,

Let's just hope spec miata doesn't show up too here soon, I can't afford to start another car, and we are just getting the RX-7 to finally work. I do agree about the edginess of the cars though, as we've all been in or near the swamp.

Even small set-up changes in suspension can make a big difference, in any class, no matter how "spec" it is, and you are always going to find a freak like me who is willing to sell his first born in order to get more time to work on the car.

Be nice to have a car that didn't want to get it's ass end out front all the time though...

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G. Brooke Carter
# 10 Challenge Car
Calgary, Alberta

[Rob May]

It's easy, get a Miata. They are cheaper to run, and a blast to drive! Check out www.specmiata.com (http://www.specmiata.com) for more details.

[bcarter]

How cheaper? Seems to me that we all get lots of parts from the JY, and I haven't seen too many Miatas there?

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G. Brooke Carter
# 10 Challenge Car
Calgary, Alberta

[Tweak]

Driving a Spec Miata and racing against FB RX-7's, I can say the RX-7 is faster in a straight line but I catch them in the corners.

The Miata does benefit from a suspension design that is light years ahead, but the power of the rotary is undeniable. Now if we only had Spec Rotary Miata... http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

[Skid]

How do the cars compare for regular maintenance? Are the Miata's front rotors integral with the hubs -- i.e. do you need to get into the same bearing mess with a rotor change as you do on the RX-7?

[7racing]

I raced a 1st gen ITA RX7 and now a Spec Miata.

Cost, they are close, depending on the rules for your Spec-7 class (sounds like a lot more for motors, though). The Miata is a LOT EASIER to drive, especially coming from the RX7.

Maintenance is less on the SM car, as the parts are newer and designed better. It's easier on brakes, hubs, etc. Plus, it's a stock motor, just add gas and go.

Competitively, I think the SM crowd is a little closer together (at least in my area). There are so many options on what to do in Spec-7 (actually, I'm basing that on IT7), that there are a lot of different handling characteristics. Kind of like the exhaust change costing you time, since everything is spec'd, there is no difference (theoretically). SM lets the best drivers head to the front, almost regardless of car prep. It costs more to start up (than IT for instance), but the maintenance costs are less.

Hope that helps.

Jeremy

[emerilnut]

[quote]Originally posted by 7racing:
SM lets the best drivers head to the front, almost regardless of car prep.

I would beg to disagree with this statement. Just like in any class, the better prepped cars will win no matter the quality of the driver. And SM has started to get some questionable activities as of late (ie the ARRC this past year) There was one car that qualified like 1.5 seconds slower than the pole-sitting ITA car. And these cars are supposed to be running Showroom Stock type motors?

When I was deciding what to build, I chose to run ITA because the car prep would be cheaper. "But" they said, "you'll never be competitive because of those CRX's." Well, we just got a 3rd place in a sprint, and another fellow ITA miata just got a 4th in an enduro. He would've been in 10th had he run SM.

But there are benefits to running SM (although running a POORLY spec'ed suspension is a BIG downside). Fields are getting bigger and bigger, and there'll always be someone to race with. No matter if you're pack leader, or pack follower.

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*** KimChi Racing ***
Stan Mitchem
Atlanta Region
#11 ITA Miata

[bcarter]

Quote: "I would beg to disagree with this statement. Just like in any class, the better prepped cars will win no matter the quality of the driver. "

Whoa there.... not so !!! I speak from experience, having a fast car, and having been beaten by a better driver in a slower car. We even had a guy in a stock 12a beating guys with streetports.

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G. Brooke Carter
# 10 Challenge Car
Calgary, Alberta

[This message has been edited by bcarter (edited March 09, 2003).]

[emerilnut]

Originally posted by bcarter:
Quote: Whoa there.... not so !!! I speak from experience, having a fast car, and having been beaten by a better driver in a slower car.

Yeah, you're right. My bad. It's just that in SM, I've seen so many times (and I've watched intently, believe me) that the higher $, higher hp cars take the win. And they're not particularly spectacular drivers. They're just able to walk away from the field in the straights.



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*** KimChi Racing ***
Stan Mitchem
Atlanta Region
#11 ITA Miata

[Quickshoe]

Stan,

Glad you reversed yourself on that one!

It has been my experience that the slower the car and the faster the track the more important the car potential is. Like 40 SM's on the oval at Daytona.

While the faster the car and more technical the track the larger factor the driver becomes.

I'd beat Schuey at RA if I got to drive a competitve ITS and he had to drive a ITC car. I would not race my nice, older lady neighbor, Beatrice on the Daytona oval if I had to spot her 20HP in otherwise identical SM's. The skill level required to drive 120mph around a huge oval, foot to the wood every lap is nil.

[7racing]

Originally posted by emerilnut:
that the higher $, higher hp cars take the win.

True, as a junkyard motor SM car, I can vouche for a few better motors beating me on the straights. However, the setup is important, and if you can keep up the corner speed/exit speed, you will be OK. I don't think the high-end HP cars have that much more (but enough...).

By less prep, I meant the driver's who aren't taking the car/motor apart after every couple of races. My car gets a wrench on the suspension parts, gas and go. I can do that with the car still on the trailer. And, yes, I do win with this car. I would love to get a high hp motor, though.

Jeremy

[Allen Brown]

As everything evolves in the Spec-Class world, I can see the Miata coming in. If a true stock engine, not a slightly modified. The racing will turn even more into the driver inputs than which variation of Street port works the best. Especially since Calgary's front straight is over 1/2 mile long, and HP is key. (except the very few drivers that perform very well with 5 or 8 hp less)

The term "Street Port" is very vague. There are many variations of street porting templates, resulting in significant HP variations. (w/o taking the tuning into account)

If Spec Miata comes in...Great. There's several options still available to the RX-7.

Let's work on getting higher car counts instead of trying to discourage others in bringing out the Spec Miata.

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Allen Brown
#36 IT1
[email protected]

[bcarter]

Allen, altho we are straying off topic a bit, I agree, we have to work on car count, all classes. We seem to have a small "leak" that reduces count almost anually, which is why I hesitate to consider yet another class, with only a few cars.

It is simply cheaper to put an RX-7 on the track in our existing "spec" class, than putting together a Miata, just from source car price alone, and the "leak" is usually money related.

Besides, as you well know, learning to race in an RX-7 gives you lots of opportunity to learn car control....

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G. Brooke Carter
# 10 Challenge Car
Calgary, Alberta