View Full Version : early flywheel w/83-85 rotors?
Rx7Carl
10-10-2002, 10:21 AM
If I use an earlier (lighter) flywheel (with corresponding counterweight), with 83-85 (lightest) rotors do I have to have the engine rebalanced? Someone told me that I'll eat up bearings and ruin motors if I dont have it balanced. This would be on a 12A setup for IT7 if that makes a difference
[This message has been edited by Rx7Carl (edited October 10, 2002).]
RacinRich
10-10-2002, 10:50 AM
Sorry but...ITCS says you can't mix and match years of parts within an assembly.
"Any updated/backdated components shall be substituted as a complete assembly (engine long block, transmission/transaxle, induction system, differential/axle housing."
Rx7Carl
10-10-2002, 10:58 AM
Ok, I'll clarify my response b4 anyone else tries to lecture me. It's an 84 engine and I want to put a 79 flywheel on it. Perfectly legal.
RacinRich
10-10-2002, 12:32 PM
OK since you got snippy, I will lecture: It's not "perfectly legal".
1) The flywheel is part of the "long block" assembly.
2) If it isn't, the front counterweight certainly is.
rx7chris
10-10-2002, 12:59 PM
wHY THE HELL WONT ANYBODY JUST TELL THE MAN THE INFO HE IS LOOKING FOR AND MOVE ON. WHO GIVES A DAMN IF SOMEONE'S CHEATING. Sorry, but I for one am not one to go piss and moan about someone winning a $5 trophy because he does things that are deemed illegal.
Lately it seems there are a lot of people with their heads so far up their @$$ they never see the light of day. What I is, your on the track to live out some sort of childhood dream of being a race car driver. So as far as I am concerned, I'm sure I'm not the only, I'm extatic to be out on the track trying to do my best. So what if I dont win I sure as hell had blast on the track even if i do finish in the back of the field.
------------------
Chris
IT7 #88
PowerTrip Racing
http://www.geocities.com/ptripracing/
rx7chris
10-10-2002, 01:01 PM
What I is?
What the!
------------------
Chris
IT7 #88
PowerTrip Racing
http://www.geocities.com/ptripracing/
Crack Monkey
10-10-2002, 02:00 PM
My understanding is, as long as you use the correct counter-weight, it will work (and I have seen some cars do this). But, as it is illegal, I have not attempted to do so myself.
Rx7Carl
10-10-2002, 03:07 PM
<sigh> RacinRich, I'll chalk up your arrogance to ignorance and leave it at that. I will take the high road and not continue this arguement. And now that I'm labeled a cheater I will make sure I point out who I am and post a pic of my car so when I eventually do make it to IT, feel free to protest me all you want. I am not, and NEVER will be a cheater. I was simply asking for a knoweledgeable motor builder to answer a simple question. I was not asking if it was legal or not (I already did the leg work on that). And thanks CrackMonkey for at least trying to answer the question http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif.
Carl, my motor guy said you can, but the whole eshaft/rotors and counter wieght and flywheel have to be rebalanced together or it will eat bearings and stationary gears very quickly,if the motors apart its only $145-$185 to balance. hope that helps.
[This message has been edited by 7'sRracing (edited October 10, 2002).]
Rx7Carl
10-10-2002, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by 7'sRracing:
Carl, my motor guy said you can, but the whole eshaft/rotors and counter wieght and flywheel have to be rebalanced together or it will eat bearings and stationary gears very quickly,if the motors apart its only $145-$185 to balance. hope that helps.
[This message has been edited by 7'sRracing (edited October 10, 2002).]
Thanks 7's, thats what I was looking for. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif
RacinRich
10-11-2002, 07:16 AM
RX7Carl,
Please reread your original post. How was I to know that you had already done the research regarding the rules? I only brought to your attention a rule that may affect your decision to make the modifications. Nobody "labeled you a cheater". However it is my opinion, which I have substantiated, that if you make this modification to your IT engine, you will be a cheater.
RX7Chris,
If you ever get to the front of the pack, you'll then understand real competition and the gratification of winning.
Rich Miller
IT7#35
(with 20 IT7 "$5" first place trophies)
GEO46
10-11-2002, 09:47 AM
RX7Chris, trust me, if you are in a championship battle, and the points are close, you do indeed worry about what's legal, and who. RacinRich and I went down to the very last race of the year to decide the points battle! And Yes, Rich is the CHAMP!
Although you point about giving the man an answer is well taken.
[This message has been edited by GEO46 (edited October 11, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by GEO46 (edited October 11, 2002).]
Mazda recommends rebalancing the entire rotating assembly if you mix and match rotors. If you don't already have a catalog/tech manual from Mazda comp, get one (1-800-435-2508).
I used to run an 84 motor with 82 flywheel. I didn't realize how bad it was vibrating until I built a proper motor (all 82 components is lightest possible legal weight)and had all the components balanced. The difference is AMAZING! The cockpit is a much calmer place at 8000 RPM, and I can now feel asphalt ripples/texture that I could not feel before.
Tak
SFR #29 ITA
Rex B
10-16-2002, 11:09 PM
"Mazda recommends rebalancing the entire rotating assembly if you mix and match rotors."
Remember that the counterweights - front and back - are there to offset the weight of the rotors. If you change the rotors, you are supposed to use the counter weight and counterweighted flywheel to match them.
So, if you seek the the lightest stock rotating components, you use the '84-'85 rotors, with the '81 flywheel and counterweight. (Strangely, that's legal in SOWDIV Spec7, but not in ITA). Because the counterweights are sized for the heavier '81 rotors, balancing is required.
BTW, even a stock rotary benefits from balancing. You can feel the difference, and all that unneccessary motion from a slight imbalance has to cost something.
ddewhurst
10-17-2002, 08:01 AM
***Posted by Rex***
***So, if you seek the the lightest stock rotating components, you use the '84-'85 rotors, with the '81 flywheel and counterweight. (Strangely, that's legal in SOWDIV Spec7, but not in ITA).
Rex, if at ain't legal in ITA then how come it's legal in Spec-7. Could that be because you folks in the Southwest basterdized the Spec-7 rules ?
If you Texas folks in Spec-7 are not going fast enough with the ORIGINAL Spec-7 rules step up to the plate with your $$$$$$$, mix & match, your headers & whatever else & try on the ITA/IT7 folks.
Legal to the ORIGINAL SoPac Spec-7 rules.
------------------
Have Fun
David Dewhurst
CenDiv Milwaukee Region Spec-7 #14
Rx7Carl
10-17-2002, 05:07 PM
Well since I started this thread and it has many people questioning the legality of it, I will state what I was told by Mazda and let you guys chime in as to your opinion of legality. Wow what a run on sentence huh?
Anyway, if you ask Mazda, they will tell you that an engine i.e. Long Block "assembly" does NOT come with a flywheel. The flywheel/clutch is a seperate assembly according to Mazda. Of course the SCCA may see it differently..........
dickita15
10-17-2002, 06:22 PM
carl
i can understand the logic of the flywheel not being pat of the long block, but I do not know hoe to rationalize the counterweight.
dick
Technically, you are allowed to remove only as much weight as is necessary to balance. To get all the rotating components balanced with the wrong (legal) front counterweight, my guess is a lot of weight will have to be removed.
I didn't want to try giving this explanation to tech, so I havn't tried it...yet?
My apologies for the earlier post--I got the years wrong...
Tak
Rx7Carl
10-17-2002, 06:52 PM
dickita15, the answer is below your post in Tak's post. So Tak if you kept the legal c/weight and "only removed enough material as is necessary for balancing", then wouldnt it fall within the rules? It doesnt state that you can only remove "x" amount, your not lightening anything beyond the allowable rules. I had actually figured some of you creative and enterprising souls would have thought of this already. Am I missing something?
RacinRich
10-18-2002, 02:37 PM
RX7Carl,
I understand your thinking now. To elaborate on your comment regarding the flywheel not being part of the long block and "the SCCA may see it differently"...
From the GCR glossary:"FLYWHEEL - An engine attachment whose normal functions are..."
Rx7Carl
10-18-2002, 03:07 PM
veddy veddy eeenteresting thanks Rich http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif One less thing to worry about then I guess http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by Rx7Carl (edited October 18, 2002).]
Rex B
11-06-2002, 07:52 PM
Mr. Dewhurst wrote:
"Rex, if at ain't legal in ITA then how come it's legal in Spec-7. Could that be because you folks in the Southwest basterdized the Spec-7 rules ?"
Hey, the cat was out of the bag, rules-wise, before I got into the class. I fought this exact battle on mixing components and was shouted down. Also tried to get us to revert to stock alloys only, instead of $165 each Panasports.
Since then I have tried to restrict additional liberalization of the rules (a constant battle). Of the 8 or 10 proposed changes for next year, only 2 passed.
But we continue to find loopholes in the existing ruleset. I'd love to start from scratch and re-write them.
ddewhurst
11-07-2002, 09:44 AM
Rex, keep up the good trys at keeping the rules so that Spec-7 racing is economical.
Have Fun http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David
ps: Mr. Dewhurst is my Father
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.