Remove Front Bar??????

[ckracer58]

I am currently running an 86 itc civic with:

larger torsion bars (27mm? or 29mm?) tokico's
hoosier 205/60/13,
approx 2.5 of camber and 1/4 toe in
opm type rear bar with the heim joints set a bit shorter than half (still have plenty of adjustment).
front bar very loose, but still attached to both sides

The car is fast, posting very compeititve times at nelson's, mid-ohio, and beaver run. The problem is that I seem to be quick on most turns execpt tigher ones such as (forget the exact name(s)) at mid-ohio the down hill right hander that leads under the bridge and the uphill right hander (turn 6) at beaver run. I know, I know, it could be the ulgy driver, but I have had some instructors at those tracks tell me that my brake and and turn-in points look ok? In addition, I have followed the fastest cars in the class and I have seen that their points are the same as mine?

Back to the bar situation. After a race at mid-ohio a fellow honda driver saw that I was running my front bar. He seemed shocked that I still had it on and said that might be my problem with the tigher turns. Then another honda guy said that if you should keep it on for mid-corner sweepers, but have it loose. What is the deal? Front bar good or bad? I know that a lot of auto-x'ser don't use one? Or can someone see fault in my set-up?

Or any driving tips on those two corners will help the ulgy driver!!

Thanks

[Greg Gauper]

I recently changed my setup from ITC with 24mm torsion bars, front & rear sway bars, and 400# springs in the rear to G-production car setup with 29mm torsion bars, 600# springs, no front bar and stiffened the rear bar adjustment. I also replaced the front control arm bushings with solid units from OPM. I am running on Avon slicks that are only 1/2" wider than my old 185/60-13 Hoosiers. I was really concerned that the car would be very tail happy without the front bar, but the car is a dream to drive. Turn in is very precise. If I get gutsy enough, I might try stiffer rear springs but I think 600# is a good limit for the Tokiko's. The biggest change I noticed was no inside front wheel spin (I run a stock open diff). A front bar will cause the inside wheel to lift by design where as stiffer torsion bars provide more than enough front roll stiffness and they won't cause the front wheel to lift off. Last year, front wheel spin did cuase me to loose some time at Mid-Ohio (turns 3 and 11). I have only run Blackhawk so far this year with the new setup but is has some tight corners and medium fast corners and feels very predicatble.

I was a doubting Thomas too but now I am convinced.

BTW, you can always experiment by simply disconnecting one of the front links but leave the bar in place. Or if time is short, go out for half a session with the links installed, pit and have your crew remove one link (two 10mm wrenches and it's off in 30sec) and then head back out onto the track for a true back to back comparison. If you don't like it, put the link (bolt) back in.

[This message has been edited by Greg Gauper (edited May 17, 2003).]

[R2 Racing]

On my '85 ITC Civic, I was running 29mm torsion bars and the stock sway bar. I was having trouble getting the car to bite on turn in (especially on tighter corners) so I tried disconnecting the front sway bar. I've haven't run with it since. By softening up the front and stiffening the rear, the car really rotated better.

You've raced at Mid Ohio? Have I raced with you? I have the orange Civic with the black front end.

------------------
Kevin
R2 Racing
ITC Civic
ITS Prelude

[nlevine]

On my '87 CRX Si ITA car, I run 29mm torsion bars, 500# springs, the OPM adjustable rear bar, no front sway bar, and use Koni double-adjustable shocks on the front, single adjustable in the rear. I've also got the solid front control-arm bushings and a limited slip. I'm able to get the back end of the car to step out with a little lift off of the throttle, and I'm not scrubbing too much in tight turns (like NHIS turn 3)...

-noam