looking for 88-91 Si Engine Builder.

[Tommy]

I want a fresh engine for the 03 season. This is a street/track car so nothing with the need of race gas to run everyday, but with the limits on IT engines I don't see why I couldn't come close to a maxed out IT engine and still be streetable.

So can you guys list(more the better) honda engine builders who know how to build IT specific engines?

Some online sites would be good. Also I'm in the NER.

What am I looking at for price also?

[This message has been edited by Eric (edited February 19, 2003).]

[jc836]

How about TOm Fowler at OPM.

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Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA #99
'96 Civic HB Just cruising daily
'99 Prelude=a sweet song

[Gregg]

I'm sure that King Motorsports would be happy to help as well (They didn't mind helping me).

I don't think you're going to find anything about IT engine building services on either website so definitely best to call for info

http://www.kingmotorsports.com
http://www.opmmotorsports.com

[This message has been edited by Gregg (edited February 19, 2003).]

[Tommy]

Thanks guys. Any idea what an IT engine will cost?

Any other builders possibly closer to boston?

[Jon Nelson]

IMHO, Honda makes pretty good engines. You likely don't need a fresh motor. I got two seasons out of an original 135,000 mile motor. Really down on power (overheated a few times), but still decent. Burns no oil, but the valves are kinda loose in the guides.

As long as it's a pretty decent, stock motor, you'll be fine. No point in burning up a $3000.00 race motor while you are learning.

J

[Tom Blaney]

Eric:

send me an email .. [email protected]

Tom Blaney

[Tommy]

Thanks for the advice. I now have 114,000 m right now and I drive a total of 25 miles a week so I think I'll just give it a tune up and concentrate on the suspension first.

Tom I just sent you an email.

Thanks.

[Jon Nelson]

You should be fine, as long as the engine is fairly well preserved.

Don't take my reply to mean it wouldn't be worth doing, but if you're new, you've got better things to worry about.

A rebuilt motor will be worth, I dunno, 15hp over a tired old one.

A really well built IT spec motor might be worth 15 more.

Jon

[Tommy]

Yeah I think I was getting ahead of myself. I have a lot of other things that need to be bought before I go for a new IT engine.

[R2 Racing]

I have never seen any reason to go and spend $3000 for someone else to build your engine (i.e. King or OPM). There are several guys around who build their own Honda engines who might do it for you if you don't have the time/knowledge(<----- raises hand). We do all of the work ourself except boring and shaving - we have a deal with a local machine shop who hooks us up for practically nothing. It also helps having a sister who works for Honda so I can use all factory Honda parts at really cheap prices. I've never seen another (legal) '85-'87 Civic/CRX pull ours in a straight line - I don't care who built the engine!

Have you done a compression test on your engine yet?

------------------
Kevin
R2 Racing
ITC Civic
ITS Prelude

[Tom Blaney]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one. A prepared motor will generate a bit more hp because it is assembled correctly, a little loose, and will take advantage of maximum bore and the minimal porting. You might pickup 10 - 15% increase, but what it will do is eliminate the engine package from the equation and will allow a new but serious driver to concentrate on driving skill without wondering if they are slow because of the car or their skill. Additionally with proper maintenance that motor will give optimum performance for 3 seasons before any rebuild/freshening would be required.

I had recommended to Eric a basic improved shock package, an improved gearbox setup and what a "prepped" motor will produce. Once these improvements are done, (not necessarly all at once), it will be a driver training process.

A lot of new drivers will waste a lot of money chasing all the latest tricks and ecu chips, which will not make him go faster. What will work is a solid package that performs consistantly and is knowingly capable of being competitive. The rest of the program is to spend practice days and qualifying sessions on learning to drive, not under the car between sessions trying to figure out why the car won't run for s...t, and not huddled together after qualifying having a few beers grumbling that the front runners must be cheating because they were faster.

IMHO

[R RACER]

Amen Tom

[R2 Racing]

Again, amen Tom! I spent my first season like that. I was slow, under the hood all the time, and swore up and down that the leaders where cheating. Once the first season was over, I started to read some books, talked to some people, realized my car was a nugget, and did some serious off-season work. Now a couple of years later, I don't think those guys are cheating anymore - and if they are, they're bad at it.

------------------
Kevin
R2 Racing
ITC Civic
ITS Prelude

[HiRcc#21]

If you want a good guy to really put things in perspective, call Dan Paramore in California. (310) 523-4074.
I run a .20 over bottom end (my stock engine was real tired with about 110psi, as opposed to the 185psi I have now, due to fresh rings and stock .020 over Honda pistons.)
Dan built me a cylinder head for 800 bucks, and I went out in Sept.(2002) at Beaver Run with it, and took second to Brent Breon's crx.
Brent was super fast, and I couldn't catch him, so he might have some tips for you as well. He is a mechanical engineer and is always on these bullentin boards as well.

Moving on....with Dan's head I was able to pick up a ton of HP, so it was worth it.
If I was in your shoes, I would just get a head done and then decide on a full bottom end next year. You will know where you stand after you get a good head, cause that is where a good majority of the HP is anyhow.

If you do call Dan, he will help you understand, he gave me a crash course that has saved me thousands....I thought I needed a full blown 4k King motor too, come to find out, that I had a southern motor builder build me a head, and it came back with a DX camshaft in it, so I raced it for 3 years and couldn't figure out how I was only finishing in 13th? Dan caught the problem and we jumped to 2nd, then went to Nelson for the Pumpkin and took 2nd in the sprint and won the one hour enduro....
Now I can't wait for 2003!
Chris Stiffler-Owner
Street-N-Track Autosports
Medina, Ohio
(866)438-3966


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http://www.Street-N-Track Autosports- owner
ITA CRX Si #21
Central Division SCCA

[GRMPer]

As luck would have it, I've got dyno numbers for my autocross ride from about 2 weeks before it spun its rod bearings at 165k. I'm having Stu at BSI do a complete rebuild to Solo stock specs (0.5mm overbore, etc). I'll be running it at the same shop after it's broken in to see the difference in power levels.

Should be an interesting exercise.

Per
http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com

[Jon Nelson]

What's you're AX ride (Please don't tell me the Minivan, either....)??

You guys have so many cars, I can't keep track!

Jon

[GRMPer]

*sorry to hijack the thread, but I was curious about other people's experiences with gains from good rebuilds.

By minivan, do you mean the Odyssey or the 2002 Civic Si that I ran last year? :-)

My autocross car for this year is a 1994 Toyota Celica ST. before you laugh..this type of Celica has won something like 6 national championships and is still competitive...and cheap:
http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/celicast.html

It's my daily driver, usually....but it's been laid up for about 2 months, so I've been trucking around in the Cooper S
http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/minicoopers.html
that's our BMW CCA Club Racing car, gutted, full cage, firesystem, big spring rates, etc. I'm almost sick of getting stared at.

Per

[This message has been edited by GRMPer (edited February 26, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by GRMPer (edited February 26, 2003).]

[Pete P]

On the original topic, I've heard Chuck Noonan at CRE Performance in Barre, MA (just north of Worcester) is a pretty good local Honda guy. I haven't worked with him, but I've heard from the local Solo II guys that he knows what he's doing.

Maybe you can buy the Paramore head and have Chuck do the bottom end locally if you think you need it.

[davew]

Eric, I live in Boston and have been building honda motors for many years. Please feel free to call or email and I'd be happy to talk to you about any aspect of getting sorted or building motors, etc...(see http://sales.hondatwincam.com)

You would also do well to talk w/ Hank Pacitto at HP Engineering in Naragansett RI. He builds many of the NER regions front runing hondas....

Davew

[Tommy]

Thanks guys for all the help. I have so much left to do before the NER 03 season starts it really isn't even funny. As for right now I'm going to hold off on the fresh engine until later in the season or maybe just for the 04 season.

Thanks.