Opinions--Non-Si vs. Si CRX for ITC/A

[Dan_H]

I hope this isn't one of those annoying know-nothing posts, but for those who have pondered/debated this already before buying/building a CRX, what are the advantages/disadvantages of running a carbed ITC vs. a fuel injected ITA CRX in terms of parts cost & availability, competitiveness within the class, and whatever little annoyances might be particular to each model?

I'm assuming that the 1st generation is a little cheaper overall to run, but may offer less in the way of suspension tuning options. Which is better matched to its IT class?

[ITSRX7]

Taking into account that I run RX-7's...

I would go with the ITA car all the way. Here are a few reasons:

1. They are considered a top car in the class
2. I would choose FI over carbs any day. Eliminate a tuning issue and you will be very happy.
3. Go faster! I always find it fun to run in the faster classes...you will be looking in your mirror less during a regional.

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
[email protected]

[Knestis]

I agree with all of the above. The cost of the original donor car is a relatively small part of the whole financial commitment to IT racing. Both are good cars for their respective classes but the ITA version is seen as a dominant option by some. To prepare each to any given level would cost about the same amount of dough. Given all of that, the Si wins out, I think...

Kirk

[Greg Gauper]

The suspensions & brakes are identical between the ITC & ITA models i.e. CRX = CRX Si and Civic = Civic Si. The main difference is that you can run a 1" wider rim in ITA. The ITA CRX's can run 13" or 14" rims, but I believe the Civic Si can only run 13" since they never came with 14". So all of the 'go fast' suspension & brake parts are equally available and interchangeable.

The main differences are the cylinder head and the fuel injection system.

The ITC cars use the prechamber CVCC head, which gets good gas mileage and produces less pollution but, really sucks when it comes to tuning i.e. if you run too much spark advance, you eat spark plugs. The ITC can run the stock or spec alternate downdraft carb.

The ITA cars get a much better head design without the CVCC prechamber. They can tolerate more spark advance. The fuel injection is much better than the carb'd car. You have to watch out for fuel starvation on the ITA version. Either run a full tank (if stock) or design a surge tank if converted to a fuel cell. The ITC cars can just about run on fumes and still pick up fuel so you can run lighter fuel loads.

That said, the ITA cars will never be anywhere near as fast as a late model CRX Si. The late model cars make so much more horsepower and have much better suspensions.

If you want a car that is really fun to drive, build either one.

If you want to be a front runner, build a carb'd ITC car.

If you build the ITA car, you can always convert to a Limited Prep G-Production car down the road if you like to tinker. I plan on converting my ITC to G-prod next year and upgrading to the Si head & FI set up.

Yes I know I won't be competetive, but the though of driving my current car which is a really fun car in ITC trim, with 20-25 more horsepower from the Si setup and a little more cam should be even more fun! Plus the car is bullit proof!

You might want to consider a later model Civic for ITC, such as the type that Tracey Nine drove to an ARRC win last year. I think the development curve is starting to flatten out on the older cars. I think you'll see the newer Honda 'C' cars getting much faster in the next few years as the development continues.

[Greg Gauper]

BTW, in my above post I assume that you are referring to the older ITA cars i.e. 85-87 Civic/CRX Si's, not the '88 and later models.

If you meant the late model CRX's, disregard the above post!

[Dan_H]

Thanks for the replies. I was referring to '84-'87 CRXs versus '88-'91 CRXs, because the way I read the SCCA classifications on the website all the early years are in ITC and the later years are in ITA. But now I'm confused about Si's, because the chart shows this:

Honda CRX Si 1.6 (non-VTEC)(1590cc)
"GT-3 (88-, Si)"
"ITA (88-91, Si)"
EP (88-91)(Full Prep)

I can't tell if the ITA Si refers to ALL Si's or just 88-91 Si's.

I guess what I want is fuel injection and coilovers rather than torsion bars. Heck, maybe I can just put the ol' 4-door '91 Civic DX on the track...

[Greg Gauper]

The 1st Gen 85-87 CRX Si's and 86-87 Civic Si's are also classed in ITA but are not competetive. They would make great ITB cars but this would piss off the VW drivers http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

I believe all '88 and later CRX Si's are in ITA. (88-92??). The Civic Si's from these same years are also in ITA. There was a lot of discussion on an earlier thread regarding the optimum year for 2nd gen CRX's. Had too do with significantly lighter doors.

BTW Midwest Council does run the 1st gen Si cars in ITB where they belong!

Don't know why they have a note regarding non-Vtec engines for the CRX's. No CRX (any year) ever came to the US with a Vtec engine.


[This message has been edited by Greg Gauper (edited October 17, 2002).]

[nlevine]

For the 1st gen cars run carb'ed in ITC (very competitive - in NER it's Rabbits and 1st gen CRXs up front)

For 2nd gen, run an Si in ITA (very competitve)

-noam
(1st gen ITA Si - not as competitve as I would like http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif )

[USGUYS]

The 88-91 CRX-SI is the car to beat in ITA. You will have a lot of fun. The Civic is great in ITC. Ask GGauper.
The CRX is also run in FP. It is possible to run the car both ways. I did this year. You give up some performance in the engine unless you're willing to change a lot of engine parts. The ITA car needs to loose 90# to get to the FP minimum weight.
I best advice. Buy an existing car. Paint it the way you like. You will be on track immediately and the investment will be less. You can then start making changes.

[1stGenBoy]

Yes the first gen crx si 84-87 should be in ITB but,i've lost that battle with scca twice now. That said i,have finished first and second in two races in 2001 in a first gen car. There are tons of these cars out there that are already prepped and ready to go and cheap to buy. If you want to get out on the track cheap(well sort of) look at a built car and go have fun and learn how to drive.

Bob"Honda"Clark

[ITA_CRX]

Dan_H,

I would look to see what region you are in and who runs what.

I would then build/buy a car that I was going to have the most competition in.

If more cars run ITC, build an ITC car. If ITA has more competitors, run ITA.

I also think the ITA car will cost more to be competitive.

[RFloyd]

--
Yes the first gen crx si 84-87 should be in ITB but,i've lost that battle with scca twice now.
--

Where ya located Bob? You ought to consider the Honda Challenge series that we have here on the east coast with NASA. The 1g CRX/3g Civic are actually PROPERLY classed!! The wter is great folks, come on in.....

www.honda-challenge.com (http://www.honda-challenge.com)

------------------
Richard Floyd
'86 Acura Integra LS #90
SCCA ITA / NASA ECHC H5
**2002 ECHC H5 Champion**

[Greg Gauper]

1st gen boy aka 'Bob' is located in the Milwaukee area.

[RFloyd]

Well that would be one heck of a long haul to go race... Luckily, hopefully soon, there might be a WCHC and a Mid-West HC....

------------------
Richard Floyd
'86 Acura Integra LS #90
SCCA ITA / NASA ECHC H5
**2002 ECHC H5 Champion**

[Dan_H]

Thanks for the advice. I'd be in Chicago region (I believe) if I got my SCCA membership current; there seem to be a few more ITA's here than ITC's but I haven't studied all the regional entries for last season. I just wish Honda Challenge and NASA had more of a presence here to provide some event alternatives to SCCA. We have no shortage of reasonably close tracks (Blackhawk, Road America, GingerMan, Grattan, WHRRI).

[Greg Gauper]

In addition to Chicago Region, you can also select Milwaukee Region or Blackhawk Valley Region.

Midwest Council is an alternative to non-SCCA events. Very low-key, but fun!

[This message has been edited by Greg Gauper (edited October 28, 2002).]

[ITC Racer]

Definitly check out Midwestern Council where we class the 85-87 CRX/Civic Si in ITB where it belongs. There are also several of us in ITC with the DX CRXs.

Check out www.mcscc.org (http://www.mcscc.org) for info

[happycorepuppy]

Don't know much about your interests, but in addition to the reasons already mentioned I chose to build an 88-91 CRX Si partially because I like to autox as well and most all the CRXs are in the same class.