PDA

View Full Version : Kill switches



Gord Galloway
03-04-2002, 08:54 PM
Up here in the cold white void called Canada we have finally accepted scca rules for the WCMA rules. My question is this...I have an 89 CRXsi. They have now made kill switches mandatory, which I think is great. What are peoples opinions as to the best place to mount a switch on these cars??? I bought the car as an ex GT4 car and there was a switch monted in the hood and on the roll cage inside. At the time our IP rules did not require a switch so I removed it as I did not like the mounting into the oh so structural hood. Any comments would be greatly appreciated!

Chris Sawatsky
03-04-2002, 09:28 PM
Hey Gord, fellow WCMA'er here.
I put a kill switch in the car I started driving last season, having an inside word that the rules might be changing. I have it placed on the driver side a-pillar bar of the cage. It should be close enough to you that you can hit it, and also easily and clearly accessible from the corner workers that will switch your car off when you roll over and burst into flames.


Just kidding about the rolling over and bursting into flames thing.

Jon Nelson
03-05-2002, 11:33 AM
Where are you, Gord?

Chris and I both race at Gimli.

I'm gonna mount my switch (now mandatory) on the dashboard, in the approximate area of the sunroof switch (now gone). It might come under scrutiny by the tech people for being inaccesible, in which case I'll move it.

Oh, BTW, isn't a LOT of work to turn a GT4 car into a IP (IT) car?

PS - Hi Chris!! Any good news/rumours?

Knestis
03-05-2002, 11:56 AM
It used to be relatively common practice to run a pull cable (like those used on mechanical fire systems) from key-type cutoff switches mounted on the dash, to a location on the driver's side of the cowl, below the windscreen. If you have that type of switch, check to see - it might already have a hole in the end for this purpose. Mark both with the spark sticker.

Kirk

Gord Galloway
03-06-2002, 08:00 PM
Hey fellow Canadians! I race out of Race City Motorsport Park in Calgary, AB. Canada. And yes the rules have changed. I have a fairly current draft of the new rules if you wanted to e-mail me at [email protected] As far as turning the car from GT4 to IP3...well lets just say that it was a poorly prepared GT4 car. Has a fuel cell, A very badly wired kill switch but not much else. What I am planning with the kill switch is to put it in place of the dash vent to the left of the instrument cluster (not the defrost vent but the dash vent) The only concern I have is whether or not this is considered to be easy enough access to the marshalls...any comments? By the way I recognize your names from the WCMA points standings last year. I think I came in 5th or 6th regionally but I could be wrong? Anyways I am hoping to make it to Gimili this year possible so I can get an extreme but whopping from you guys! It'll be worth the experience though!

Gordon Galloway
Honda CRXsi
#32 IT3

Chris Sawatsky
03-07-2002, 11:10 AM
Just curious Gord and Jon, what's your reasoning for not mounting the switch on the roll cage?

Hope to see you out at Gimli this summer!! I believe the big event is supposed to be June 29-30

Jon Nelson
03-07-2002, 11:51 AM
Hi Gord;

You are more than welcome to come to Winnipeg. We can guarantee you'll have a great time, and get a LOT of track time. Too bad all day Friday practice won't be happenning. We need more IT1 Hondas!!! It is a wonderful, friendly (well, most of the time http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif) and fun atmosphere.

Chris;

Mounting the DISCONNECT switch (Rebekah prefers I not use the term "Kill") to the cage involves not only welding a bracket to the cage (yuck... would mess up my paint), it would also involve having the whole mess hanging out in the air.

I think putting a panel over the dash vent and mounting it there is a good solution... in fact, I might do that. I have seen plenty of pictures of Speedvision/channel cars and other "sedans" with this done, so, by example, I would guess it to be considered easy to access (by PRO tech inspectors, no less).

Oh, another thing, if you go to your local car stereo shop, you can get some mutha huge amp supply wire in a guage sufficient to do this, along with high quality connectors to match, the wire tends to be highly flexible due to the fine-ness of the strands and the softness of the jacket.

I've seen a few kill switch installations where the guy figured bigger is better for the cable, and ended up with about 15 pounds of big ugly wire running al over the place. Not pretty.

Thats enough unsolicited advice for one post, huh?

Jon

Chris Sawatsky
03-07-2002, 12:15 PM
For aesthetics' sake, I'll agree that mounting it into your dash vent would be much better. It would likely be good enough for tech aswell.
Funny you mention amp wire, when I put my kill switch in, I went to the local stereo shop and bought an amp wiring kit, which had the large gauge wire for the battery, and also the smaller wire for the fuel pump cut off, aswell as all the nice connectors. Just don't use the fuse that comes with it. I found out the hard way that 60amps isn't enough to start a car that's been sitting all night in the cold

Gord Galloway
03-07-2002, 09:39 PM
My main reason for not mounting the switch on the cage is that the way my cage runs it would be either to hard to access, or could cause bodily contact in the event of an "incident". One dumb question however? What would be the "proper" way to cut the fuel pump? I have considered interupting the power wire that goes to the main relay, which in turn would kill fuel, ignition and ECU power. Is this still considered by the rules as using a solenoid or relay or is the concern there only when using a solenoid or relay to cut main battery power? I know a lot of the rally guys hook the small contacts up to there alternators field wire so that when it is tripped it kills vehicle power and in returns causes the fuel pump to shut off. What is your opinions? One other thing in reply to the stereo wire is that I will also be cutting sections of say... heater hose or something similar to put over the wire in places where chaffing or pinching could occur. Just an extra layer of protection in case of you know what. It wouldn't add much weight if only done in the areas where it would be needed.

Tyson
03-07-2002, 10:03 PM
Another point I'd like to add is that stereo amplifier wire isnt properly insulated for heat and would be a good idea to add another layer of insulation for heat protection, especially in the engine compartment.

Then again, maybe its a moot point if your car is already on fire.

Chris Sawatsky
03-07-2002, 10:15 PM
Gord, I used the lead from the ignition switch that kills the car, on my kill switch.
I asked the tech guys before doing it, and this was fine (for my region) You may want to check with your guys first

tderonne
03-08-2002, 10:25 AM
I hope you are desribing a what a second set of poles does on your switch. A "Master Switch" is not supposed to be just a kill switch.
Per GCR 17.27: "The master switch shall be installed directly in either battery cable and shall cut all electrical circuits but not an on-board fire system."


Originally posted by Chris Sawatsky:
Gord, I used the lead from the ignition switch that kills the car, on my kill switch.
I asked the tech guys before doing it, and this was fine (for my region) You may want to check with your guys first

Chris Sawatsky
03-08-2002, 10:35 AM
Yeah, the main poles cut the battery, the secondary poles cut the engine

Gord Galloway
03-09-2002, 02:15 AM
The battery wire I am using to the kill switch is actually welding cable so the heat issue isn't as much of a concern but thanks anyway. And yes the smaller contacts on the switch are for the fuel pump disable and I am using the larger contacts to kill the battery...But again thanks for the heads up.
Chris thanks for the info, essentially running the smaller contacts to your ignition switch wire is basically cutting the same wire I am talking about so with that said I will get in touch with the tech person out here and verify that it's ok.

In case anyone near you is interested, Aug 24&25 weekend we are having a big race weekend. Minimum $10,000 purse (That's like a million dollars american if any friends from south of the border are reading this!). It is the Canadian GT championship/ Vintage on the praries weekend. Gonna be lots of cars! Friday night will be test & tune, Saturday there will be an endurance race and there will be points races on the Sun. If you intersted in coming out we'd love to have you.

Grumpy
03-09-2002, 09:58 AM
A properly wired master disconnect switch for a car with an alternator uses a six pole switch as follows:

The large connectiond disconnect the battery.

The first set of small disconnect the alternator

The second small inserts a resistor as the alternator is disconnected to prevent the diodes in the alternator for damage.

The master swich MUST disconnect all electrical circuits except a fire system (if equipped)

To properly test a switch, run the car at approx 2000 rpm and see if it kills the motor.

Then with the switch off, check the main power lead out of the alternator. It should have 0 volts. If if still has 12 volts, you are in violation of the rules. Some tech inspectors don't check this, but it is the rule confirmed with the chief tech guy at SCCA.

Then check the electric fuel pump and other circuits for 0 volts. ALL SHOULD BE ZERO.

Grumpy

------------------
SCCA Tech Inspector
NASA-VA Race Director

Gord Galloway
03-09-2002, 03:47 PM
Thanks for the info Grumpy,
If a six pole switch is not to be used and the switch's big contacts kill main battery power and the 2 smaller contacts kill the fuel pump & ignition system via the main relay (factory relay for honda's) then is this still legal? The concern is that our WCMA rules which follow SCCA rules state that solenoids and/or relay's may not be used. By cutting power to the vehicles main relay is this in violation of the rules? The main battery lead would be directly connected to the switch with no solenoids or relay's. With the switch tripped there would be no voltage to anything in the car except a fire system (if it were installed). Any info would be greatly appreciated.