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Neon13
02-20-2002, 10:08 PM
I'm building an IT-style 1988 Civic hatch (Quebec, Canada road race series) which will also be street driven. I'm wondering if I can build something high-flow which won't get me arrested but still perform on the track? They're pretty tolerant here, I had a Neon with a Flowmaster and high-flow cat which would set off car alarms and was never pulled over. Also, there are no emissions tests. This car has been a race/street car since new, but the former owner put a sissy street exhaust on the car of a ridiculously small diameter. Questions:
1) do I need to keep the resonator?
2) is there a Flowmaster product for me (I like the sound and the price)?
3) how is the Dynomax cat-back system (also inexpensive)for the D16? Does it fit on a D15 with minimal mods?
4) Cherry Bomb? Nice price! Do you use it in conjunction with other parts, or is it like a muffler?
5) Can I make a system that goes straight out the back instead of curving 90 degrees to save some bends and pipe length?
6) My engine now is a blueprinted D15 withou headers. I don't want to invest in this drivetrain, because i'm eventually going to swap in a B16A 1,6 vtec (hey, the rules allow it here, same class!). Is there a system I could build which would suit both engines? Obviously, the manifold of this engine (stock) does not match up with the header or manifold on my future engine, but the muffler place can cut and weld. Basically, can a system be made which can mostly be reused on the new engine (going from under 100 hp to 160 hp)? The Dynomax D16 kit is 2.25 or 2.5 inches. Is that enough for the B16A?

Thanks for any info.

Vince

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racer-025
02-21-2002, 05:17 PM
Since your in Que, to h-e-doublehockeysticks with that resinator and converter. All cars older than 1990 do not require these things to pass inspection. You probably don't have to smog it anyway. Run 2-1/4" pipe straight out the back and install a turbo muffler from Canadian Tire. On the end of tail pipe, weld on a threaded pipe (same size) and install a threaded pipe cap. Before you get to the muffler, install a "y" in the pipe and weld another 2-1/4" pipe and send it out the passenger side. Weld on another threaded pipe on that end too. Now unscrew the threaded cap from the rear muffled exhaust and screw it on the "open" pipe end when you are driving on the street. When you go to the track, unscrew the cap from the "open" pipe end and screw it on the muffled exhaust end. Now the exhaust will exit out thru the open pipe. This has been done before and worked well.

Neon13
02-21-2002, 05:24 PM
Thanks, sounds cool. This raises 3 questions:
1- Will this system be big enough after my swap?

2- Threaded pipe and cap: is this available at the muffler shop, or is it plumbing stuff? Where do I get this?

3- Don't the exhaust gases try to go out the muffler when it's plugged, or do they automatically go out the hole that's open without too much restriction?

Thanks.

Vince

racer-025
02-21-2002, 11:16 PM
Yes, 2-1/4" exhaust will be more than sufficient for any of your mods. Get the threaded pipe and cap from the plumbing/hardware store. Exhaust is mostly air and flows just like water. It will flow to the least resistance.

joeg
02-22-2002, 09:36 AM
HOLY COW!!! Lake Pipes. Godd old tried and true 50 year old Hot Rod technology.

Great suggestion.

Regards.

John Herman
02-22-2002, 10:13 AM
Save yourself a lot of headaches (both physical and pocketbook) and buy an aftermarket performance exhaust system made for the Civic. Brospeed and others make one. It will bolt right in using factory hangers, won't fall off, no screwing around with caps (If this is a street car, that threaded cap will probably become rusted on pretty quick.) If and when you get to upgrading the engine, just cut the flange off and weld in a new section of pipe. The pipe sizing will be sufficient. The BIGGEST misconception with exhausts is noise=power. Sorry, it ain't true. A well designed system will be relatively quiet and boost performance.

SMSP
02-22-2002, 11:36 AM
Pick up a 2-1/4" Magnaflow system for the Civic. I use 2-1/2" tubing for the B16s but that is on engines that usually having higher compression and aftermarket cams.

racer-025
02-22-2002, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by John Herman:
Save yourself a lot of headaches (both physical and pocketbook) and buy an aftermarket performance exhaust system made for the Civic. Brospeed and others make one. It will bolt right in using factory hangers, won't fall off, no screwing around with caps (If this is a street car, that threaded cap will probably become rusted on pretty quick.) If and when you get to upgrading the engine, just cut the flange off and weld in a new section of pipe. The pipe sizing will be sufficient. The BIGGEST misconception with exhausts is noise=power. Sorry, it ain't true. A well designed system will be relatively quiet and boost performance.

You must be one of those guys that have a $150 gear shift and $400 chrome valve cover! MOST of the stuff that is sold out there from the magazines are for the kids that can afford them. Some of us old grassroots racers built our exhaust systems complete under $100 (and work quite well I might add). We have also built a short shift gear shift by cutting off the original one and welding 1" to it - cost $0.50. Get youself a can of 1500deg header paint and paint it yourself for $12.

What I am saying is, get back to grassroots racing and leave "Sport Compact Car" on the shelf.

CrunchyFrog
02-22-2002, 05:25 PM
I think you'll find Herman is very much a shade tree grassroots guy like th rest of us.

John Herman
02-25-2002, 01:20 PM
For the sake of the discussion, let's compare the two proposals. Racer-025's $100 system and the Brospeed system. For this price, Racer's system would consist of aluminized mild steel with press or crinkle bends. Aluminized mild steel will last 3 years on a street car where salt is used. A small "cherry bomb" muffler would be used. This is a marginal muffler size for a street system. You can take your chances with the local authorities. This muffler would be painted mild steel. The system would run straight out the back of the car and out the side with his "Y" pipe design. This routing would require going underneath the plastic fuel tank in the Civic. The ground clearance to the tank in stock configuration is 6 inches. Assuming lowering the car 1", a " clearance to the tank and a 2" exhaust (sufficient size), ground clearnance to the exhaust is 3". Driving over a curb or rr tracks, will most likely cause some damage to the exhaust. As part of this routing, no hangers currently exist, but I'll assume you would fabricate something. Coat hangers could be used for the real low-buck approach, but durability would be questionable. Tech inspectors might even raise some concerns. Some fabrication would be required to make this all work, assume a conservative 8 hours. Assume your labor is free. Track vs. street driving involves removing the appropriate cap as mentioned by Racer. Coat everything well with antisieze every time the caps come on and off to keep them operating smoothly. If durability is more of a concern, you could fabricate everything from 304 stainless steel. However Muffler shop benders can not put good bends in ss material, so a couple of premanufactured mandrel bends will be needed. Your total material cost will probably double. How well this system works will be a direct reflection on how much thought, time and energy you put into it. Dyno testing, you're on your own.

Brospeed system (as an example, other manufacturers exist). Cost is approximately $350. System is manufactured from 304 ss. It will last forever. All bends are mandrel bent. The system is engineered and built to use the stock hanging system. It will not fall off the car. Because the system follows the stock routing, ground clearance will remain unchanged. There will be no need to change from a track setup to street setup. If you like the SCC look, the tip is a bonus. Otherwise, you can cut it off and replace it with something else. Total installation time is a couple of hours. The system has been dyno tested to verify the performance improvement.

So I guess it comes down to a difference of $250 and a whole lot of time and headaches. With the above information, you can now make an informed decision about which route is the best for you.

Chris Sawatsky
02-25-2002, 02:50 PM
hey this is something I'm interested in too...


What I have right now is a muffler in my center tunnel, flo pro twister, and it comes out in front of my rear passenger wheel.

I was going to have an identical system made up with a quieter muffler, and just swap for street duty, but I'm thinking now I might put a T in, and have a quiet muffler on the driver side, and cap the straight pipe end when on the street.

Would it make any difference if I capped the street end at the track? It seems it would be able to flow just as much, or maybe even more, if I left both ends uncapped.

Opinions, comments?