Question about wheels

[JamesB]

So I picked up my B car, and other then the known issue of a motor which I have solved, and a few new issues that are minor and wont stop the car from passing tech and all.

The car has snowflakes on it with tires good enough for the fall school. But the spares are a mixture of mhw, snowflake, and a full set of P slot wheels. Now the snowflake and MHW I know breath well, but what both myself and Matt didnt know is how well these wheels breath. Do the suffer the same issues of no air movement like the teardrops, or are they sutable for use?

My reason for asking is to determine if these wheels hit the auction block or if they get the fresh rubber I am looking to go buy.

thanks for your input.

[JLawton]

Breath well?? I assume you mean air to the brakes? I never had an issue with the brakes over heating, or coming close to it!!

I would worry more about weight. The snow flakes are HEAVY. I'ld stick with the lightest set for the dry and save a set for rains.........

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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi

[JamesB]

Well I am trying to keep my initial budget down since I still have a motor to pay for, and safety gear to buy. Otherwise, I would be out there looking a number of light weight 14x6 wheels worth running that make these look like nothing.

However, priorities are set and thus wondering if running the P wheels will create any issues with braking.

[VW16VRacer]

James

E-mail me when you are ready for wheels. I have two sets, one set still in the boxes, that I could make you a good deal on. They are 14X6 ET38 five spoke that are light and strong. You will notice a huge difference over the snowflakes.

[email protected]

Jon

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by JLawton:
Breath well?? I assume you mean air to the brakes? I never had an issue with the brakes over heating, or coming close to it!!

I would worry more about weight. The snow flakes are HEAVY. I'ld stick with the lightest set for the dry and save a set for rains.........



Jeff, I think you're thinking of teardrops. While snowflakes aren't as light as those wheels Kirk got for Pablo, they're not that bad. Lot of folks still racing on them (Chris Albin for one)



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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[JamesB]

Thanks Jon and others. I actually threw the question out there to see what I should do about these wheels and if they where worth just using or if I should punt them off.

I guess for now I can have the current tires dropped on my unmatched set of wheels and put the fresh tires on the the set of flakes on the car right now. When budget allows I can then go out and pounce on a set of wheels.

Right now my priority is getting the minor issue i have with the cage design changed (door bar is nearly an arm rest. Better gauges then the cheapo set in the car, a new plate to fit the oil cooler sitting in my garage and go from there.

[JLawton]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
Jeff, I think you're thinking of teardrops. While snowflakes aren't as light as those wheels Kirk got for Pablo, they're not that bad. Lot of folks still racing on them (Chris Albin for one)


I've got a set of what I "thought" were the snow flakes (as told by a couple of people) and they are much heavier than my Borbet's. I don't remember what the difference was, but you can easily tell by just picking them up!! Then again, "heavy" is a relative term!!



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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi

[Bill Miller]

Jeff,

The Snowflakes were the original A1 GTI wheels. They came on other cars (A2 8v GTI, Cabby, Quantum, etc.). As I said, they're not as light as Kirk's wheels, but from what I can remember, there wasn't a huge difference between them and my old Borbet C's. IIRC, they're (the snowflakes) ~14#

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[JamesB]

Snowflake
http://duppenthaler.com/internet/sf1.JPG

Teardrop
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v335/ThirteenthCurve/100_0305.jpg


P Slot
http://i11.ebayimg.com/03/i/04/06/79/bf_12_sb.JPG

[mgyip]

The question that begs to be answered is "What about those P-Slot Pirelli wheels?"

I've used Teardrops and aside from overheating my brakes after 2 laps (yes, I did use the auxillary brake pads but that didn't help), they were heavy and IMHO utterly worthless.

I've also used Snowflakes and currently use them for rains. They breathe well enough although there are certainly lighter wheels on the market.

Now for the P-Slots - I have no experience with these and given their legendary status on Whoretex, it's unlikely that James will get any empirical data other than "Dude, those like rock and like you'll like rot in Hell if you like defile them". Looking at the reverse of the wheels, they seem to have a more open design than the Teardrops BUT the slots are fairly small and inset SO I get the impression that they could be used for rains but nothing else.

IMHO, I'd suggest selling the P-Slots to some Whoretexer who will love and covet them (for tip-top dollar of course). Then find yourself either some nice light aftermarket rims or even another set of Snowflakes that aren't "perfect" to supplement the teardrops that came with the car.

BTW - my house is starting to look like a VW ITB shop with 2 black ITB 8v GTis and the General Li...

[Bill Miller]

I agree w/ Matt. Sell the P-slots on Vortex, and either buy some light-weight Kosies or some more snowflakes. The one thing about snowflakes, is that they're known for being soft (lord knows I've seen plenty of square ones!).

Matt,

Are those A1 or A2 GTI's? And who's are they??

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[JamesB]

all of them are A2 GTI's

My Black 87 GTI ITB Car

Alex's Black 85? ITB car (his roomate)

And of course the Li which is ITA.

Mine will come home to my garage soon enough, but I am going to leave it where it is till I get the motor from bill and it makes a stop at Piper to lower the arm rest...I mean nascar bars on the drivers side.

Ok, ill put them on the tex and see what I can find as replacements. Given that I still have other imporant things to buy for the car still (decent gauges instead of the pep boys special) and other things to do, wheels are low priority.

[This message has been edited by JamesB (edited July 19, 2005).]

[OTLimit]

Chris likes snowflakes because they all match and we have LOTS of them. They are very forgiving of his driving style, and if/when they go to the recycler they are still worth about $7. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

The more of you that buy aftermarket wheels, leaves more of the snowflakes for us. Honestly, the weight issue isn't worth the time for most ITB cars, so why waste money on expensive wheels? Spend your money driving instead.

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Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers

[JamesB]

Thats exactly how I feel right now. and I already found a set of tru but rashed ones locally for dirt cheap. So I think I will shed the P wheels, get something for the fresh tires and when I change out the current tires I will get some rains on them.

So that will take care of me.

[mgyip]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
Are those A1 or A2 GTI's? And who's are they??

See James's response - my neighbors are starting to think that I'm in the Racecar Collection business http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif Oh, and I forgot to mention the 928, the E30 318 (that is for sale BTW), the CSP CRX, 3 open trailers, my 27' enclosed AND my F350 that are also on the premises.

I'd think that James can find a set of snowflakes fairly easily. They're not that soft (not nearly as bad as BBS of the same era) and if he's lucky, he can source a set of Jetta Carat wheels that are FORGED!!

[madrabbit15]

We like the bmw 318 wheels. They are super cheap, even more so than the snowflakes. They are soft, but like Albin said, that is often a very good thing. Plus the BMW wheels are ligher than the snowflakes. Most of the time a bmw shop will give them to me.


Derek

[JamesB]

318 wheels are something to think about. I think I know where there is a huge stack of them for possibly next to nothing.

yeah we are doing a really good job filling matts yard. Though my plan is only have my open or my car at his house for very short periods of time. I have a place to store the B car, the trailer currently could be left in my driveway when not in use, though my HOA is trying to change that (why I dont understand, I guess they want to shed the image of downtown Laurel.)

[JLawton]

OK, you guys are going to make me go weigh my wheels!! http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif

I have heard the comments from other VW racers that the snow flakes are so plentiful, that if you bang one up, just stop at the next garage sale and pick some up!! Lord knows I've trashed my Borbets!!

Matt, you've really over heated your brakes?? On what tracks?? What do you use for pads?

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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi

[mgyip]

Originally posted by JLawton:
Matt, you've really over heated your brakes?? On what tracks?? What do you use for pads?

Jeff - it was years ago using Teardrops and either Performance Friction or Cool Carbon (talk about ANCIENT history) pads at Slummit Point. I thought it was the pads at the time but after merely switching to Snowflakes, the overheating problem went away - that and I started using auxillary brake pads, ITA RX7s http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif.

The best thing about Teardrops is that they're like P-Slots except not as valuable. I've sold ever set I've had b/c I won't put them on my cars since they're only good for looks.

Haz-Matt

[itbgti]

As soon as I have time, I am going to be posting some Momo wheels I have for sale....Quantity of about 12, old school Momo wheels with the fins and large rotor protector...best way to describe them before I take a digital photo is they look like the OZ rally wheels (http://www.wheelspecs.com/specs/wheelmodels/860)

Anyone have any thoughts on what I should sell them for (they are as far as I know/was told straight)

~$35 each?

[Bill Miller]

Derek,

Aren't the BMW wheels the wrong offset, since they're for RWD cars? Or, does it just mean you don't run spacers (or not as much spacer)?

Alan,

What size are those Momos

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[madrabbit15]

Bill,

actually those wheels off of 318s are exactly the same offset as vw wheels. Im not sure the exact offset, but it is not a rwd offset. It is a front wheel drive offset.

Derek

[itbgti]

Bill,

Wheels are 14x6, not sure on the offset (I have not checked yet)...these all came with a package deal on one of the Audi's I purchased.

[JamesB]

Derek,

You are right, I spoke to my guru friend and he said other then a slight diffrence in the lip and they are the same offset. They are also a tad thicker hub then the VW ones so you need a longer bolt. I think thats it.

I am just going to troll around for 2 more snowflakes for now and shed the P slots since they make money. I found a set of audi Ronals but they are coveted by the VW scene and overpriced. However I might roll be Brandywine in a few weeks and see what they have, last time I was there I picked up 5 318 wheels and sold them to a VW. Of course that was months before I decided to buy a car and go racing instead of my HPDE events.

[This message has been edited by JamesB (edited July 20, 2005).]

[mgyip]

Originally posted by JamesB:
I picked up 5 318 wheels and sold them to a VW.

These are the BBS wheels for the 318, right? Remember - there are a total of 9 wheels for that lovely E30 318 behind my garage that's now being parted out in favor of an ITB 2002.

BTW - The ITB "fleet" keeps growing. We've now added a '73 2002 (also black). The next trick is figure out where to put all the spares.

[dave parker]

Matt
You could have your own race series called OPC (Other Peoples Cars).

I know where we could get some track time.

Wouldn't it be great!Tell the owners that they were charged a "nominal" storage fee, and the dents and dings were thrown in at no charge.

cheers
"dangerous" dave parker
wdcr ITC#97


[This message has been edited by dave parker (edited July 20, 2005).]

[JamesB]

Yes matts collection is growing rapidly. Matt that should be the wheels I speak of. They should fit just fine as we have used this on mk2's and 3's without issue. Or find 2 more silver snowflakes so I can have a two sets of them and call it a day. I can collect more wheels later.


Dave - Yeah, I have one spare I planned to keep out there which was the block since I have limited storage capacity at home. The rest of my spares will fit in my garage, but untill I find a TV (in the market just having found what I want yet) or even if not it will end up at my garage soon enough.

I need to take some pictures of Matts boatanchor yard.

[This message has been edited by JamesB (edited July 20, 2005).]

[mgyip]

The E30 has a set of Borbets as well - I wonder if they're of the correct off-set to work on the GTi...

Don't worry about your car - I'm make sure that it gets plenty of exercise...

[JamesB]

hahaha, yeah on all 3 cyl currently.

[JLawton]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
IIRC, they're (the snowflakes) ~14#


I broke out the scale and you are right on the money with the weight of the snow flakes. My Borbet's were in the 11-12lbs range. Considering we drive high horse power cars that are aerodynamic http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/rolleyes.gif I'll take the 2-3lbs less of rolling mass!!

I know the 8-12lbs of over all weight won't make much difference, but how much weight starts to effect performance with rolling mass??



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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by JLawton:
I broke out the scale and you are right on the money with the weight of the snow flakes. My Borbet's were in the 11-12lbs range. Considering we drive high horse power cars that are aerodynamic http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/rolleyes.gif I'll take the 2-3lbs less of rolling mass!!

I know the 8-12lbs of over all weight won't make much difference, but how much weight starts to effect performance with rolling mass??



Jeff,

I know what you mean. I those Koseis that Kirk got were somewhere in the 9-10# range. And, IIRC, VW teardrops were like 18-19#! http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/eek.gif

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[JamesB]

Well I could feel the diffrenece in my mk4 between my street wheels 17x8 19lbs + tire verse my kosei k1 14lbs+tire.

But I am going to side with the penny pincher in me. I have enough startup expenses to be ready for the Fall School so I will be running flakes for a year or two.

[OTLimit]

Could you really feel the difference, or did you know there was a difference because YOU changed the wheels/tires. We have done this several times to Chris about different things. You might be surprised if it was a truly blind test. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif (the scientist in me coming out)

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Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers

[JamesB]

No I could tell the difference with how the car reacted at the track. But after long talks we are not talking about a 9lb diffrence in wheels, so I will run my mismatched set with fresh tires. The current ones will likely see my rains and eventually I will get a matched set for other tires.

[Bill Miller]

James,

Were both wheels the same size, w/ the same tires? If not, doubt what you were feeling was really a difference in the wheels weights.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Grumpa]

Upcoming track day in October at Putnam Park and I would like to run my A1 on a set of used 15" Hoosier R compound and Hankook SM donuts that I picked up recently. Are there any 15 x 6 steel rims with the right offset that I could pickup at my local salvage yard? I don't want to sink a bunch of nonexistent funds into alloys if the car doesn't work well on tne 15's. Also, has anyone ever run ITC at Putnam? I would like to have some kind of idea as to constitutes a decent lap time. I ran a 1:30.4 last time there, but have nothing to judge by. Thanks.