Golf III ITB

[Dave Zaslow]

From October Fastrack:

CLUB RACING
Item 2. Reclassify the 1993 Volkswagen
Golf III from ITA to ITB, effective 1/1/04.
PASSED

Now how do we get this to cover all Golf III's from 93 to 98? I asked for this some months ago, with no response. Guess I'll have to bug a certain comp board members.

And in other news.....Mr. Suloff, what were you thinking ;-)

IMPROVED TOURING
1. 13 Membership input letters against
the concept of competition adjustments
in Improved Touring. (Various) Thank
you for your input, please see the
Advisory Committee's proposal in the
September issue of FasTrack..
2. Input supporting reclassification of
the Volkswagen Golf. (Knestis) Thank you
for your input.
3. Input opposing reclassification of the
Volkswagen Golf. (Sulouff) Thank you for
your input.
4. 6 Membership input letters for the
concept of competition adjustments in
Improved Touring. (Various) Thank you
for your input, please see the Advisory
Committee's proposal in the September
issue of FasTrack.

[Knestis]

You don't have to bug anyone. Just fill out and submit the forms to have all of the eligible years/models listed, referencing the fact that they are the same as the one already in the ITCS. Jeremy Thoennes at the club racing office would love to help you out or I can send anyone who wants them the copies that I have. You'll have to delete the Honda specs however... http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

K

[OTLimit]

Originally posted by Dave Zaslow:
And in other news.....Mr. Suloff, what were you thinking ;-)

3. Input opposing reclassification of the
Volkswagen Golf. (Sulouff) Thank you for
your input.


This letter was misnotated, and the ITAC realized that pretty quickly. Evidently the misnotation got carried over to Fastrack.

Suggestion: Use a re: on your letters to give a concise statement about the content of your letter so that this doesn't happen to YOU.



------------------
Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers

[jcmgt2]

Time to start shopping! Yeah

[itbgti]

What is the required weight of the car now that it is in ITB?

[Eric Parham]

Well, now I know what I'll be building this winter http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif I'm going to gamble and try to start with a '94 2-dr. As far as classing other years, note that the SS rules still allow '95-up to run SS. Therefore, I would expect success adding the '94 to the '93 in ITB, but not necessarily the '95-up (since they still have a place to race in SS). Just getting the '94 would be helpful, though, as that was the first year for the 2-door, I believe. Don't quite have time to write the letter right now, though...

[Knestis]

The new 10-year rule in SS is not described as affecting IT eligibility - the age rule in the ITCS hasn't changed. This proved out in practice this spring when I got the '96 and newer Civic EX listed in ITA.

K

[Eric Parham]

BTW, I have a partially built Golf 2 with a very nice custom IT cage (welded-in, of course). Does anyone know whether it will fit well into a Golf 3? Wouldn't want to cut up the Golf 2 if it won't fit... TIA

[Bildon]

Well no wonder we have such trouble getting our cars classed!

>> posted by Dave Zaslow:
...Mr. Suloff, what were you thinking? ;-)
-------------------------------------------->> This letter was misnotated, and the ITAC realized that pretty quickly

They can't even read http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/tongue.gif

PS - Golf 4 is next.



------------------
Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport (http://www.bildon.com)
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2002 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##

[Bildon]

It's true that the 93 MY was a 4 dr only car. Let's keep pushing for the '94+ Golf and Golf Sport 2 dr cars.

This August Fastrack issue should be on their plate now that '93 is classed.

>>IMPROVED TOURING
1. Classify the 1994-97 Volkswagen Golf
with the 1993 model year already classified.
(Monaghan) Tabled for review of the
Board of Directors decision on reclassifying
the 1993 Volkswagen Golf.

(Jerry, are you bringing my steering rack to the Glen?) http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

>> What is the required weight of the car now that it is in ITB?

I expect that it will be (should be) re-classed at it's "dead last in ITA" weight.
2350# w/ driver. This puts it's P/W ratio very close to the other VWs in B.



------------------
Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport (http://www.bildon.com)
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2002 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##

[HOOSER 99]

I just picked up a 94 fordoor and I'll compare it with the two door on the scales in a couple of weeks. Might it have a little more rear %?

jerry monaghan

[Knestis]

Mr. Monaghan would be wise to follow up with the ITAC and his area director, to be sure that they take his proposal under consideration. The term "tabled" has been operationally defined as meaning many things over the last several years...

K

[HOOSER 99]

After reading the SM posts I am really hesitant to bring up anything concerning a table(as the black helicopters hover overhead)

jerry monaghan

[Bill Miller]

I expect that it will be (should be) re-classed at it's "dead last in ITA" weight.
2350# w/ driver. This puts it's P/W ratio very close to the other VWs in B.



How is 90hp@2180# 'very close' [sic] to 115hp@2370#?

And as far as "dead last in ITA" goes, just how many of these cars have been built and raced in ITA? Are there even 10 of these cars in the whole country? 5? While I agree that it's probably not one of 'the' cars in ITA, has anyone really put a serious development effort out for one of these cars?

What's next, 2.0 16v from ITS to ITA?

I'm still amazed that this went through given the fact that similar requests were shot down pending the results of the comp. adj. discussion. Just one more case of a lack of internal consistency. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/rolleyes.gif

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Dave Zaslow]

Jerry,

I suggest we work together in filling out the forms and collectively work to get whatever information is needed on those forms? So far we have Yourself, Eric P, Bill S, and myself interested in keeping busy building over the winter. I'm sure there will shortly be more. I have a 95 Sport, no sunroof, that I've been telling the present owner to take exceptional care of... My resources are the latest version of both ETKA and the Bentley manual. I may also be able to get to the Edgar(sp) database.

[OTLimit]

Chris would start a 93 tomorrow if we had one.

Anyone interested in some A2s, a couple of Audi Coupes, and some Rabbits that I have parked in the driveway?

------------------
Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers

[RSTPerformance]

OTLimit...

Built the Audi!!!

VW are all farfromaudi http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

[itbgti]

Jerry,

Can't wait to run against you next year, in whatever cars we have http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

The four door golfs are a dime a dozen, teh two doors are harder to find (from my most recent research)

A problem with the four door (pointed out to me by someone else) is that the main hoop will sit in an "odd" place compared to the driver...the four doors are six inches shorter, and the hoop will be directly over your head, unless you do not put it at the B-pillar...I have not confirmed this yet, anyone with some input???

Regards,
Alan

[Knestis]

Why assume that the main rollcage hoop has to be at the OEM B-pillar location (fore and aft)? Plenty of rally cars and touring cars over the years have ignored this assumption and they have it tougher, since they tie into the pillars. To my knowledge there is no requirement in the SS cage rules that specifies anything in this area...

K

[itbgti]

Kirk,

Agreed, but rally cars and touring cars do tie into the B-pillars with additional supports, which are allowed in their rules. With our rules (as you know) we are not allowed to "connect" to the B-pillar...one way around this is to make a REALLY tight fit with the cage up along the B-pillar. You would lose this ability with a four door car.

Trust me, if someone can convince me a four door is better, please do. Those are cheap and VERY easy to come by...these two doors are a pain in the butt to find (cheap and/or close)

Alan

[Knestis]

Ah - you are talking about taking advantage of an interference fit, where the cage is actually touching (albeit not connected to) the B-pillars?

That's a point but I don't know how much that gains in practical terms of rigidity. My guess would be not much...

K

[Fastfred92]

Just emailed the comp board to include 94-97 cars, Jeremy @ SCCA confirmed all specs would be the same as current ITA except wheels being 6" wide, same weight etc.. He did not indicate that it would be any problem to include the newer cars. It looks like all will be considered after the runoffs..

BTY Bill, the problem with the 2.0 ABA motor is nobody is builing good chips to take advatage of the legal mods. I built one of these cars and could not get more than 105 -108 WHP ... That is at or less than a good 1.8 CIS motor, and with less weight of a MkII it explains why this should be a ITB car

[This message has been edited by Fastfred92 (edited September 02, 2003).]

[Bill Miller]

Fred,

I've heard from a well known VW builder that 123 CHP is about all you can get out of a 'to the limit of the rules' CIS-E 1.8 ITB motor. I would expect more than a 15-18 hp loss when translated to WHP. And, if that 15-18 hp loss is accurate, a stock 2.0 ABA should make 97-100 WHP. Which would indicate that you're only getting an 8-11 hp gain out of IT legal mods. I would be willing to bet that you can get more than that out of it. I won't even get into the A1 1.8 8v, as it's pretty well documented that the A2 intake flows better than the A1 intake.

And if 108 WHP is all you can get out an ABA motor built to IT specs, I doubt that it would have anything for the Volvos (or the 2002s for that matter). I also doubt that so many people would be looking to build these cars.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Fastfred92]

100% agreement with you that this does not sound right however, my experience ( and as I said I built one of these ) is different. The engine builder I worked with thinks a good deal more HP is there but without proper fuel it will not happen. As with the E36 BMW's who found great improvments with chips it will happen with the ABA, and may now happen sooner, but some chip maker will need to invest some $$$$ to find the extra HP. BTW my engine guy thinks 120-125 WHP is possible but you will also need a good header... the common headers on the market did not work very well.

[HOOSER 99]

Alan---iI got the four door because gravity and old age are taking over...by next spring I might have to get in the back door!!!
Seriously I have a 2 and a 4 door but the 2 door is almost too nice to cut up.(key word being almost). I'll put them side by side and let you know. The manual says its about 66 lbs heavier.

jerry

[Bill Miller]

That's why they call it development Fred. Development is more than just throwing a bunch of off the shelf parts at the car. Granted, you can do development w/ OTS stuff, but not when it comes to things like chips and headers (at least not if you want to optimize everything).

I would agree that 120-125 WHP is possible w/ that motor, even on pump gas.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Dave Zaslow]

OK folks,

I have received the Vehicle Specification Sheet form from Jeremy. Do we fill them out individually or collectively? If anyone wants a copy of them just give me a buzz via zascar42ATaolDOTcom and specify Word or PDF. If anyone can host them, please do.

Dave Z

[Bildon]

A3 Golf pics...some of which are 4 doors and show cage placement.

http://bildon.com/a3/

Bill M. email me if you want to understand my P/W post.


------------------
Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport (http://www.bildon.com)
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2002 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##

[Knestis]

I might be reading the above post incorrectly but it might be counter-productive to actually send in more than one set of VTS paperwork. Probably better to have one keeper-of-data/submitter...

Kirk

(who is frankly kind of pissed that this change actually came through this summer, since he now has to re-think what he thought was his final plan)

[Bildon]

Kirk,
Admit it. You want to race a GTI http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

[p.keane]

Mr. Zaslow, Your are welcome.
P.S. Nice jab!

[Knestis]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">...Admit it. You want to race a GTI.</font>

Well it IS where I started looking for information when I first visited this site three years ago. I think my very first post was, "Does anyone think the GolfIII can be competitive in ITA?"

Now, riddle me this: What specific models are still eligible for SSC under the new 10-year rule? I would like this to be an option for the '04 and '05 seasons, so someone with old copies of the GCR would be really appreciated right about now.

Even cooler would be someone who knows about an SSC-prepared GolfIII that might be for sale...

K

[Bildon]

Kirk,
My '01 GCR says 95-97 Golf Sport and 97-98 GTI. All specs identical.

So for 2004 I guess you can race all but the '93 in SS.

[Fastfred92]

Per Jeremy at SCCA, next years GCR will include 1995 and 1996 VW's in SSC ( and SSB for that matter ) but told me "unoffically" that it should not effect years for IT and that up to and including 97 should be in IT.

As for VW in SSC, I ran one about 3 years ago ( 96 GTI ) and it was really bad ! Too slow, nasty stock shocks/springs ( needed a trunk kit ), bad gear ratios, and too much weight, although I had a good upright veiw of the Civic's as they blasted by !! I have ran the last two years in SSC with a ACR Neon ( 01 ) and often 4-6 seconds a lap faster than the GTI

[This message has been edited by Fastfred92 (edited September 04, 2003).]

[Bildon]

VTS docs are located here:
MS Word:
http://bildon.com/info/SCCAVehTechSheets.doc
PDF:
http://bildon.com/info/SCCAVehTechSheets.pdf

Attached are the Vehicle Technical Specification (VTS) sheets.

Complete and return them to the Club Racing
Technical Department along with a letter explaining your request to the Competition
Board.
Individual Competitors:
You will also need to include copies of the manual pages, for OEM spec verification,
that contain the following specs:
Valve Sizes, Valve Lift, Wheel Size, Bore, Stroke, Displacement, Brake
Rotor Dia., Brake Rotor/Drum Width, Tire Size, Gear Ratios, Wheelbase,
Track, Curb Weight, and Final Drive Ratio.

Once we receive the information from you we will give your request a tracking number,
put it on the Competition Board Agenda, and send copies out to the appropriate
advisory committee and all of the Competition Board members.

[email protected]

[Knestis]

Okay, I'll bite...

I'm now officially looking for a '96 or newer Sport or GTI, in condition appropriate for Showroom Stock preparation.

Want to offload some stock, Jerry? http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

K

[Fastfred92]

BTW.. The Golf Sport was only offered from late 94 thru 95 ( I think only as a 95 model ). From 96 the Sport became the GTI ( 4 cylinder ) with the only real change being the addition of ABS, OBD II and central locking. All of the Sport's and GTI's had glass tilt slide sunroof as standard equipment. I think the car to have for a starting point would be a 94 GL 2 door, it could be found without sunroof, airbags or ABS. Do a Autotrader search, always seems to be a few out there....

[Eric Parham]

Actually, I don't think that's correct. Non-sunroof Golf III 2-dr 4-cyls were rare, especially in '96-'97, but seem to have always been available in each model year from 94 to 99.5. My problem is that I keep finding automatics... why-o-why... I know it's doable, but I still have a kink in my neck from the last pedal cluster I had to change.

[Eric Parham]

BTW, 93-96.5 were OBDI, and 96.5-99.5 were OBDII. I don't know which engine management will turn out to be better, but I wouldn't mind doing some fiddling if someone can give me a lead on mapping and/or source code. (Now, where did I put that EPROM burner...)

[Knestis]

Gotta line on a '96 GTI in NoVA - this might be the one. As much as I don't like sunroofs, the plan is to use it as an SS car for the first year, for schools and learning how to drive again.

BTW, for those of you who haven't dealt with him before, Matthew Yip rocks.

K

[Fastfred92]

Hey K

Dont do it!!!! Unless you are immune to sea sickness you are better off spending the extra $ and time to make that Golf sport IT ready. The Golf is the worst SS car I have ever driven !! The understeer blister on your hands take years to heal, the aforementioned sea sickness from those awesome stock 80lbs springs are rough and the Civic gust ( as they pass ) are a handfull!!

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Knestis:



BTW, for those of you who haven't dealt with him before, Matthew Yip rocks.

K


Without a doubt! Good luck w/ the car Kirk! You know you want to race a VW!!!!!


------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

A BIG thanks to Matthew for previewing this GTI that I am looking at up his way. I won't be able to see it myself unti this coming Saturday (if it is still there) so if anyone has a line on any other '96 or newer GTI, let me know. Can someone clarify for me what years the Sport was built, by the way?

K

[Bill Miller]

Kirk,

You'll probably get the best information off of Vortex. I haven't really followed anything after the A2, and I really know more about A1's (although I'm buying an '89 Jetta GLI for a daily driver this weekend).

Good luck!!!

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

/edit/ typo

[This message has been edited by Bill Miller (edited September 15, 2003).]

[Fastfred92]

The "Sport" Golf III was built from mid 1994 thru the 1995 model year only, when it was replaced ( in name only )by the GTI ( 4 cylinder ) They were all "offically" 1995 models but I have seen some with 1994 VIN's

[Knestis]

Thanks! I thought the answer was something like that but the SSS lists a 97 "Sport" in addition to the 97-98 GTI. So the GCR is wrong? (Careful there, Bill.) http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

K

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Knestis:
Thanks! I thought the answer was something like that but the SSS lists a 97 "Sport" in addition to the 97-98 GTI. So the GCR is wrong? (Careful there, Bill.) http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

K

Who, me??? http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

I'm in. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

Picked up the car this afternoon. Thanks again, Matt for looking it over - couldn't have made the logistics work without your help.

K

[Bill Miller]

Cool beans Kirk!! Welcome (back) to the club!

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

http://it2.evaluand.com/images/golfnew1.jpg

(Does happy dance)

On a related topic, I need to find a new auto insurance provider for this ride before I actually go racing. Does anyone know of a racer-friendly company that would be interested in a street liability only policy?

K

[Bill Miller]

Nice looking ride Kirk! Congrats, and good luck building it into a SS car!!!!

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Eric Parham]

Kirk asked about "racer friendly" insurance. I won't touch that, but I can recommend a "driver friendly" insurance company.

For liability insurance only, I recommend AMICA. They have traditionally looked the other way on robbery requests from highwaymen (i.e., speeding tickets) for good drivers who don't have any actual claims. This is one of the few "good ones", IMHO, and they have always treated me very well.

The AMICA policy is a "dividend" policy, where we pay more but get a sizable dividend back (typically 15-25%, if memory serves) if the company does well each year (i.e, low claims).

Eric

[Knestis]

Saw this for sale today...

http://colicstore.com/images/DSC00739.JPG

...on another board. Upstate NY, Email Address » [email protected].

Kirk

[GRMPer]

BSI Racing will be building an A3 for ITB in 2004. We'll be following along as the car is built.

should be a fun ride.

Per
http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com

p.s: wish I still had my 95 Golf Sport sans sunroof.

[Knestis]

Damn - am I having fun! I sourced my rollcage, which is going to basically duplicate this...

http://it2.evaluand.com/images/Polo4-rollcage-3.jpg http://it2.evaluand.com/images/Polo4-interior.jpg

...minus some of the rear diagonals that won't fit with the seats in SS trim. We're adding rally-style "taco" gussets to all of the roof joints as well (replacing the tube gusset in the pic), going to a horizontal/single diagonal main hoop triangulation and a single diagonal rather than an X in the back.

I also have one of these scheduled to hit my porch at the end of the week.

http://www.tcklineracing.com/OPC/products/photos/LRacerSPG.gif

Drunken sailers got nothin' on me...

K

[Bill Miller]

Nice looking cage Kirk!!! How much was that seat, if you don't mind me asking.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

It's at the cage builder's this week, after I spent a lovely 4 hours turning this...

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/intbef.jpg

...into this:

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/intaft.jpg

Nothing horrible going on - no dead critters, no joint where two halves of wrecks had been stitched togehter (like was discovered by a guy I know who was building an ITC Scirocco, that he'd bought when it was only a year old). Less than a buck in change under the rug and who in the hell decided that I should have to disassemble the vent plenum to take out the last two nuts holding in the dashboard? Geez.

The expensive (and heavy) RECARO slider is a work of art and a compromise to the fact that there will be multiple people driving this thing. It's a little tall but has less play than the OEM unit and adjusts over almost a foot of distance a slick as can be.

I also ordered a MOMO steering wheel and hub from IT guy Louis Boustani (LTB Motorsports). If you haven't had the pleasure of doing business with these folks, I recommend it. The price was as low as the "warehouse" place, their website catalogue is user-friendly and informative, and it arrived on my porch in just a couple of days. Excellent service that should be rewarded with more business.

Kirk

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited October 14, 2003).]

[Eric Parham]

Hey, I think I accidently sold my 2003 GCR with my old tow vehicle. Just picked up a Jetta III, mainly for the cage, but it's got me thinking (smoke fills the air)... Is the Jetta III classed, and if so, at what weight (and is all else listed the same as Golf)? TIA

[Knestis]

The '93 Jetta III is on the list...

...at 2480#.


^~~^
*(..)*

Oink!

K


[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited October 16, 2003).]

[Eric Parham]

Hmm, are you implying that my Jetta would be more at home in a mud bog than on a race track? ;-) Actually, some race tracks I know resemble that remark (especially in the Spring). Anyone remember the Left Hander at Lime Rock a few years back?? OK, the non-sunroof Golf search continues...

[lb2]

Kirk, that is a sweeeeeet cage, I love it.

Call me during the week at work 1-888-346-7266 I like to chat with you and ask few few questions.


Louis Boustani
LTB Motorsports

[Knestis]

Another Golf III donor...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1079805

Kirk

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Knestis:
Another Golf III donor...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1079805

Kirk

But not legal yet! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif



------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

I keep figuring that one of these characters will fill out the damned forms. As paperwork goes, this ain't rocket science...

K

[Eric Parham]

Hey, I'm the proud new owner of a '96 4-cyl "GTI". Yeah, it's got a sunroof, but I'll just have to deal with a careful removal. See you bums next Spring ;-) Oh, has anyone written "the letter" yet to get more model years included, or should I write one?

[Corradoracer]

I hate to inform you the 1995 model will be classified for racing at the end of this year and the 1996 model will have to go through the new rule process for showroom stock. I called SCCA and spoke with Tech and was informed about the new 10-year rule in showroom stock, so 1996 will be eligible to race in 2006.

I was told this last week and I hope some one could prove me wrong, because I, like you, also found a 1996 golf to build.

Corradoracer

[Knestis]

Sorry - you lost me there. I understand the SS rule (because I'm going to run mine there until it falls out of the 10-year rule) but that has nothing to do with IT eligibility.

Since "cars from the previous four (4) model years and the current model year will not be eligible" (ITCS, 2003, p. 5), models through 1999 will be eligible for next season. Unless my math is wrong?

K

PS - Congrats, Eric! My cage is done and the car comes home on Wednesday. Whee!

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited November 11, 2003).]

[Bill Miller]

There are several IT cars currently classified that are not 10 years old. Or, is it a case of only ones that are currently classed in SS won't be classed in IT? If so, dumb, very dumb!!!

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

There's no (current) rule that codifies that thinking certainly. Please, Eric - write the letter. It won't matter in my case next season but I just have this feeling that this is going to become an issue.

K

[Knestis]

Das Cage is in...

Rally-legal gussets throughout

http://it2.evaluand.com/images/cage07.jpg

The entire cage was tacked in on top of box structures, which were knocked down so the tops of all upper joints could be welded. The entire deal was then raised back up and the boxes reassemebled underneath. Very clever...

http://it2.evaluand.com/images/cage06.jpg

Detail of optional 7th and 8th pickups

http://it2.evaluand.com/images/cage05.jpg

This tells the whole door bar story: The tubes are right against the door card, it is NOT particularly hard to get in and out, and I can still work the window winders - very handy for rallying! Check the load path from the top of the A-pillar... http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

http://it2.evaluand.com/images/cage03.jpg

Enter here. Clearance at the steering wheel is not huge but should be workable. It's no closer than it was on the Autopower bolt-in in the Renault Cup car, I don't think...

http://it2.evaluand.com/images/cage02.jpg

Chris Schimmel in Hillsborough, NC did the work. VERY nice welds and joint fitment.

K

[Bill Miller]

Looks nice Kirk, congrats!

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Bob Burns]

I haven't been following this issue very closely, but my interest has been piqued.

Does it look like the ITB classification of the Golf III is going to be extended to include the 1995 model year?

Would a '95 Golf III Sport 2dr automatically have a sunroof? How about rear disc brakes?

Bob...

[GRMPer]

The Sports all had rear disks...but very were made without a sunroof. I had one as an autocrosser...there was one other that also autocrossed and I have since since one for sale in St. Louis w/o a sunroof. All of the non-sunroof cars that I'm aware of were white and the sunroof was actually a delete option on the mulroney.

Per

[Knestis]

Someone needs to write and make the request, Bob.

K

[Knestis]

From the August 2003 FasTrack

The following items have been
REFERRED to their respective advisory
committees or TABLED pending receipt
of additional information. ...

IMPROVED TOURING

1. Classify the 1994-97 Volkswagen Golf
with the 1993 model year already classified.
(Monaghan) Tabled for review of the
Board of Directors decision on reclassifying
the 1993 Volkswagen Golf.

* * *

It seems that it should be possible to "take this off of the table" rather than making the request from scratch. More in the Rules forum...

Kirk

[imported_Webmaster]

Link:
http://forums.improvedtouring.com/it/Forum...TML/000567.html (http://forums.improvedtouring.com/it/Forum2/HTML/000567.html)

[Eric Parham]

Just to be safe, I sent my own letter to the Comp Board (via email) requesting addition of the 94-98 to the 93 ITB Golf III listing. I didn't bother with any other details, which I feel would be better handled by separate letters, if needed.

[Eric Parham]

Hey Kirk (or anyone),

On the slight chance that my '96 model year doesn't get added to ITB in time, is there a Bilstein/Neuspeed "trunk kit" allowed in SSC?

TIA,
Eric

[Knestis]

The Golf isn't a trunk-kit car. Thanks for officially making the request, Eric!

K

[Bildon]

Trunk kit was for the "B" cars.

[Bill Miller]

Kirk,

I thought that trunk kits were essentially done away with for SS cars. I don't know if they were taken away from cars that already had them, but I thought I read something in FasTrack about how no new SS cars would be given trunk kits.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

I believe that you are correct on both points, Bill - no newly classified trunk-kit cars but those that have them may continue to use them.

K

[Knestis]

Making progress. Putting stock interior panels back in a racing car sucks...

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/dashin1.jpg

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/dashin2.jpg

As you can tell from the pix, I've made the commitment to stick with SSC for this season at least, the $1400 in replacement OE parts helping to eat up budget and make the decision for me. I'd rather have new hubs, bearings, tie rods, and all that than KONI's anyway, right? http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/rolleyes.gif

K

[spike]

Great job
first class build http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

------------------
87 ITB Golf
True speed is in the turns

[HOOSER 99]

SANTA CAME EARLY


Feb fastrack pg 11

happy holidays

jerry monaghan

[Knestis]

Cool news!

K

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited December 18, 2003).]

[Dave Zaslow]

FASTRACK NEWS ®
OFFICIAL SCCA MEMBER NOTIFICATION
EFFECTIVE FIRST DAY OF THE COVER MONTH: FEBRUARY 2004

NEW CAR CLASSIFICATIONS
The Competition Board has instituted a
new feature in our monthly minutes. It was
pointed out to the Board that at times the
classification of new cars either gets buried
in the technical data contained in the
monthly technical bulletin or is delayed in
announcing the new classification since we
have not been able to develop all of the
specifications necessary for the Technical
Bulletin. In order to inform the membership
as quickly as possible of our intent to
add new cars we will also be listing the cars
being added in this section of our minutes
under the heading of New Car
Classifications. The details of the specifications
will be found in the Technical
Bulletins as the specifications are
researched and confirmed.

New Car Classifications (effective 1/1/04)

ITB
1994-97 Volkswagen Golf III

…………………………………

TECH BULLETIN
DATE: November 21-23 & December 8, 2003
NUMBER: TB 04-02
FROM: Competition Board
TO: Competitors, Stewards, and Scrutineers
SUBJECT: Errors, and Omissions, Competition
Adjustments, Clarifications, and Classifications.
All page numbers in the following document
refer to the 2004 GCR.

IT

ITB

3. Volkswagen Golf III (93), p. 49, add the
model years 94-97.

[Bill Miller]

Pretty funny that it says it's effective 1/1/04, yet it's in a Feb. '04 FasTrack, and isn't effective until 2/1/04. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

If any of you guys building "real" racing cars out of your MkIII's want to chuck OE springs, front ARB, or strut hardware (anything besides the strut, actually), I'd love to have your cast-offs.

I'd also be curious to know what color codes your stock springs have and the diameter of your OE ARB.

K

[Dave Zaslow]

Decontenting the car has been an education in modern car construction methods and materials. Yanking things apart is tortuous fun.

Three things of note, so far:

Get a very, very long hex key to take the passenger air bag out.

If you take out the alarm module the car will not run. (DUH!!) You can remove all of the pin switches.

If you are thinking of selling the air bags, get the control module as well. On my '95 it is buried behind the heater ducts, on the tunnel, at the firewall.

Is this fun?

Dave Z

[imported_Webmaster]

We could use another photo essay..."How to build an IT car... on the site. So which one of you guys wants to be imortalized on IT.com to help others with their Golf 3 builds?

Dave, Kirk, Jerry ?


------------------
Webmaster - www.ImprovedTouring.com (http://www.ImprovedTouring.com)
http://www.ImprovedTouring.com/images/it_sig.gif

[Knestis]

Remember that mine would be titled, "How to put off building an IT car for 2 years."

K

[Dave Zaslow]

Bill,

A great idea. I will try to borrow a digicam at critical times. Given the positions that deconstruction/reconstruction puts you in, perhaps we should call it the "A3 Kama Sutra".

I got the dash out yesterday. The last two fasteners are through the firewall and accessed only after removing the wipers, trim panels and raintray. The one on the drivers side to loosen is the upper one of an identical, stacked pair.

There is a beautiful structural tube that supports the dash and steering column. It runs between the A-pillars. The HVAC box and fan fill the area behind it from the passenger door to the instrument cluster. Kirk's cage (above)does not seem to have a cross bar at the firewall. Kirk, is this the reason?

Unlike my Rabbit, the A3 heater core always has water running through. A flap in the box opens to allow air to be blown either through the cold or hot side of the box. The cold side will also have the AC heat exchanger.

Can't work on it next week. Stay tuned...

Dave Z

[Knestis]

Right on about that cross member. I (a) couldn't figure out where to put a cross-tube given that I have to keep the dash knee bars, and (B) figured that that member is hell-for-stout anyway. It's held in by Torx bolts from the door jam side of the dash and my guess is that it accounts for about 30# of the weight difference between a MkII and a MkIII.

We torched a hole through that beast for the downtubes so that, in a side impact, the tubes will run up against the OE structure.

Those last two dash nuts ARE fun, aren't they?

Since the front downtubes run right behind the side vents, I cut the ends off of the lateral tubes in the air ducts that are bonded to the bottom of the dash, and taped them up with aluminum duct tape. (Note here that I don't believe that putting a tube through the dash is permission to take all that stuff out.) http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif The demister is unaffected and when I turned on the dash vents driving home from getting the cage (AC is great!), it just about blew my eyeballs out, with all of the air coming through the center holes in my face...

It's also interesting that my cage is asymmetrical - the front downtube mounts farther forward on the driver's side floor than on the passenger's, to miss structure on the passenger side while moving foot protection as far forward as possible on the side that counts. We also had to relocate the big wire junction that sits behind the driver's-side vent, shoving it to where that end of the duct used to live.

K

[Knestis]

Build photo series and more at...

http://www.it2.evaluand.com/gti/build.php

K

[Knestis]

I took advantage of a day when it wasn't below freezing and did the required graphics yesterday evening. Of course, I finished them in the dark...

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/quartgraf.jpg

It almost looks like a racing car...

K

[RSTPerformance]

looks nice

[Banzai240]

Hey Kirk... you mind picking me up a gallon of 2% while you're out??? http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/tongue.gif



------------------
Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Auburn, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://home.comcast.net/~djjordan/Web/DJ_AV1.jpg

[RSTPerformance]

Kirk-

Only cause you are called the "rules nerd" I figured I would test ya!!!

what is illigal about your car in the above picture???

Raymond

PS: this is only for fun, its not a performance gainer http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif again I love the car!!!

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance:
what is illigal about your car in the above picture???

http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

------------------
Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Auburn, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://home.comcast.net/~djjordan/Web/DJ_AV1.jpg

[This message has been edited by Banzai240 (edited January 14, 2004).]

[Bill Miller]

ooh, I know!!!! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance:
...what is illigal about your car in the above picture??? ...

NASA stickers aren't covered up.

K

[Bildon]

Can one of your A3 guys do some measuring and tell me what thickness wheel spacer would be optimum front and rear to get your tire out to the legal limit of the fender?

Factor in some neg camber too.



------------------
Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport (http://www.bildon.com)
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2003 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##

[Eric Parham]

Oh, I thought it was the studded tires http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif


Originally posted by Knestis:
NASA stickers aren't covered up.

K

[OTLimit]

Kirk is making me jealous. And it's white (the Albin family vehicle color--don't ask).

Chris can't build an A3 until his truck is done (there are some trade-offs in life), but if we find one, I get to drive it until it's new career starts.

Anybody got any leads on one? We are looking, but not getting lucky.

------------------
Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers

[Knestis]

Keep an eye on the Classifieds > MkIII section of the VWVortex forums. There have been a number of 2-door GTI/Sports available in the last few months - some of them seemingly a better deal than I got on mine. Most have been in the NE.

K

EDIT - updated build pics at http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/build.php

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/exting.jpg

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/wheelf2.jpg

and more...

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited January 15, 2004).]

[Fastfred92]

Kirk,
Car looks great! When I ran my GTI in SSC several years ago I found a plastic cover for the radio from VW to finish off the dash, came from a city golf I think, would look great in your car, only $5 or so.
Fred

[Bill Miller]

oooohhhhh, new wheels! Very sexy!! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

Nice job Kirk!

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

I don't know about sexy but I have 9 of the Orlando 8-spokes and 8 of the "5-stars" - one set of which has new Falken street tires so the race tires went on the former.

Rumor has it that the 5-star wheels are lighter but I really don't know.

K

[Bill Miller]

Kirk,

I don't know if the 5-stars (have no idea what the 'official' name is) are lighter than those other wheels. IIRC though, the original GTI 'snowflakes' are the lightest of the OEM 14x6 VW wheels. There are boatloads of them floating around, and can usually be had for $50 - $200 per set of four, depending on condition. I don't know if you're allowed to run them in SS or not. The only thing I will tell you is to stay away from the A2 16v (teardrop) wheels. They're pig-heavy and don't move much air.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Bildon]

Can one of your A3 guys do some measuring and tell me what thickness wheel spacer would be optimum front and rear to get your tire out to the legal limit of the fender?

[Knestis]

My tires are so far from the arc of the fender - height-wise - that it's really hard to tell. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

K

[Dave Zaslow]

I weighed all of the removed carpets, foam underlayment, fiber underlayment, ice-cube sandbags (you'll get it when you see it), etc from the Golf. 29 pounds.

[Bildon]

Dave,
In this frigid cold, taking all the tar paper off the floor should be a snap (literally) http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

- Bill

[Dave Zaslow]

Bill,

I went into the unheated shed where the car sits and tried chipping away with a chisel and a putty knife. The results were a very numb body and no significant amount of sound deadner removed. This stuff feels very different than what I attacked on the Rabbit. Much stiffer and much better adhered. Maybe because it is 12 years younger? I'll give it another shot next weekend with either dry ice or a heat gun. Would an air gasket-scraper or air hammer with chisel blade be a great improvement?

OTOH the glue for the carpet padding is much less in quantity and vexatiousness in this car.

Kirk,

Looking at your pictures I see your car has the explosive seat belt pre-tensioners. I just want to report that my 95 Sport did not have them.

Dave Z

[Knestis]

I thought about removing the tensioners but decided not to. I've left it such that the OE driver's belt can be reinstalled with minimum hassle, in case I run into problems with the NC inspection or if I decide to sell it without the safety equipment in a few years. I kind of figured that if I get in a situation where they go off, I'll have enough to worry about: It's not like having airbags punch you in the face...

Besides, I don't think there's a provision in the SS rules to actually remove them.

K

[Fastfred92]

Kirk,

For what it is worth I was told that I could remove the tensioners in my 95 Sport SSC car a few years ago at a annual tech. The inspector said he felt it was part of the airbag system.... My current SSB VR6 GTI I replaced the belts with non-tensioner style ( found them in EKTA ) so that the car could still be street legal.

[megmeyer]

Kirk,

I know it has been a while, but I am looking to buy a seat, and wanted a Recaro, but they won't let me sit in one first.

So, unless someone knows where a dealer is near Philadelphia, could you possibly email me off-line? I would like to get the specs on the seat you have.

Thanks!

email address is [email protected]

[Dave Zaslow]

Kirk,

You are welcome to my non-exploding OE belts. The cars are on the same spec line, aren't they? Of course that means disassembling all the trim up to the B pillar....

Dave Z

[Knestis]

Thanks, Dave but it took me an hour per side to thread the rear interior panels back in around the cage: They're staying in there until I do the IT converstion in two years.

My only concern - and it's pretty abstract - is that the seatbelt tensioners on a Golf IV set the insulation alight in a IIHS offset crash test a couple years ago...

K

EDIT - My question is when are we going to get to see progress on the REAL IT MkIIIs that should be getting built out there?

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited January 21, 2004).]

[Bildon]

>> My only concern - is that the seatbelt tensioners on a Golf IV set the insulation alight in a IIHS offset crash test a couple years ago...

http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif German Engineering! It's an incentive to get out of the car!

Yah I know I'm hopeless...

[JOESELLSVW]

The pyrotechnic seat belt tensioners on the A4 body Golf/Jetta platform only affected the early production cars. Production procedures were changed early on in the new model build out and cars that were at the port or on dealership lots were corrected by removing B pillar insulation that was surrounding the pretensioners. This remedied the problem without too much fanfare, except for a delay at the port for the early release cars. Still looking for a Golf Sport to replace my A2. I don't get it, these cars were all over the place a few years ago. Now I can't find one to same my life. I must admit, I'd like to find a white car, but would settle for something clean. I keep coming across cars that are either automatic or modded out way too fast and furious to be taken seriously. Yeah sure ALL race cars have neon! It's been so cold lately that I haven't even started to work on the car for the spring. The VR6 change was pretty tempting. Just the A3 2.0 is economically easier for the wallet. JOE

[Jason Weaver]

"EDIT - My question is when are we going to get to see progress on the REAL IT MkIIIs that should be getting built out there?"

Here are a few pictures of Freddy's (fastfred92),and currently my 1996 GTI. His name is Fritz, lol, don't ask! I will be doing the double school in Feb. with the car. This picture is old, before new updated stickers and before we got reclassified! I know I'll get a call after gloating about this! Thanks for the good info guys and a special thanks to Freddy for all the help, I cannot say enough about him as a fellow racer and friend!

http://www.hostdub.com/albums/jhondaboy_album06/DSC02106.jpg

http://www.hostdub.com/albums/jhondaboy_album06/DSC02107.jpg




------------------
Jason

[Knestis]

Which school - Roebling? I'll be there so if you will too, this will probably be the largest number of MkIII Golfs on one track in the US, since the car was introduced...

K

[Fastfred92]

Makes me miss my old car even more now that it will be wearing "ITB"....... Kirk and Jason can run their school race head to head! Someone should get some pics of the MkIII battle!!!

[Knestis]

Oh, I will be thrilled if this rusty old guy can convince Pablo Schumacher, the wobbly Germano-Mexican understeer machine, to stay anywhere near his ITB bretheren...

What's Fritz's VIN? Pablo's is -040044. They may know each other from the assembly line.

K

[machschnell]

Wow, BSI built? I can't imagine what the interior looks like. They never cease to amaze me...

PJ

------------------
83 Rabbit GTI - future ITB

[Dave Zaslow]

This weekend I finished removing the sound deadner from the interior (2 door). With the sand bag ice cube trays it amounts to just under 10 lbs.

Cold and achy,

Dave Zaslow

[Knestis]

Fun fact - Jason's ex-Fastfred ITB car (Fritz) and my SSC car (Pablo) are only 22 VIN numbers apart. They had a fine reunion at the Roebling school.

Pablo had Fritz covered in the wet but got schooled when it dried out...

I enjoyed meeting Jason and everyone else and I REALLY appreciate his and his dad's help hauling my gear home. Thanks, guys.

K

PS word from the BSI gurus is that they are currently building three MkIIIs.

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited February 16, 2004).]

[Jason Weaver]

Pablo must be part fish somewhere cause he LOVES the rain! 10th overall in our group of 49 cars in the rain! This was a group full of spec Miata's! Fritz had to come back and represent in the dry!
No problem on the gear, just let me know when ya want to come get them. You can private me at [email protected] We had a great time and look forward to racing with you guys soon!

------------------
Jason

[Knestis]

Technical note: I crossed the Roebling scales at 2786# with 3/4 tank of fuel and about 180# pounds of driver.

I'd be interested to know what Jason's Fritz came in at...

K

[Eric Parham]

Ugh, I hope that's a typo... 400 lbs overweight??? It is a 4-cyl, right?

[Knestis]

Remember that I'm still in SSC land (yeah, it's a four). I'm actually ONLY about 100# over my minimum... http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

It MIGHT get there if it were truly built to the limit of the SS rules - gutted door w/NASCAR bars, minimal other diagonal bracing, no sunroof, AC delete, explosive harness tensioners removed, and a couple other more minor things.

K

[Bildon]

Kirk,
You sure you didn't get the Golf 'Panzer' model? 400 lbs! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/eek.gif

- Bill

[Knestis]

Mine is actually a low-content model - no electric windows...

I can now confirm that the AC delete pared that overage by almost exactly 30 pounds, not including the stuff in the dash that is staying for the time being.

Email me if you want the P/Ns of the pulley and belts necessary to make that stuff go away. It makes for a very tidy installation.

Kirk

[Knestis]

Here you go...

Water pump pulley - 028 121 031 K
Serp Belt - 028 903 137 BB
V-Belt - 037 145 271 E

Have fun!

K

[Knestis]

Never mind...

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited March 18, 2004).]

[Knestis]

Must...stop...posting...

Nobody...else...reading...

[Fastfred92]

No, still here...

[Jason Weaver]

Kirk,
Gonna be at VIR?

------------------
Jason

[Knestis]

Yup - running the Carolina Cup race on Saturday. Something in excess of 65 cars entered, sounds like...

K

[Knestis]

Weebles wobble...

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/vir20mar1small.jpg

K

[Bildon]

Is Sam catching you? http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

[Knestis]

Yeah - for the third time in 45 minutes... :|

By the way, I think that there were 77 cars in the CCPS race and 75 of them were ahead of me on the grid. The SRF behind me was pretty impatient on the pace laps.

K

[Jason Weaver]

Hey guys, Fritz finsihed 6th in ITB out of 13. 2:29 best lap I think the Volvo turned a 2:27. All in all not too bad for a car that is overweight, a 3 year old motor, and on RA-1's. Not to mention a rookie driver! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif I know there is some more time to be found in my driving for sure. Nice pic Kirk!

------------------
Jason

[Knestis]

Nicely done. Now, Pablo and I only have to find something like 20 seconds to catch you...

K

[Knestis]

Fun update - Pablo got his picture in the May issue of Grassroots Motorsports, with the text of an email that I sent to David Wallens this fall.

We have some other fun stuff in the works that I'll be able to share shortly, I think...

K

[Knestis]

News and new pictures at http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/events.php

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/virfront2sm.jpg

More fun on the way!

K

[Jason Weaver]

Very nice site Kirk.

------------------
Jason

[Bill Miller]

Gotta love that showroom stock suspension!!! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

Very nice Kirk!

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[machschnell]

Originally posted by Knestis:
News and new pictures at http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/events.php

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/virfront2sm.jpg

More fun on the way!

K

Are you allowed to remove those DRLs (daytime running lights)?

:-)



------------------
83 Rabbit GTI - future ITB

[Jason Weaver]

Pablo likes to see where he is going. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

------------------
Jason

[Knestis]

Hey, Jason - remember that I need Fast Fred's email or phone number. Or Fred, you can get in touch with me if you see this. I want to learn more about the adjustable rear bar that you got for the MkIII...

Kirk
[email protected]
336-378-0127

[RSTPerformance]

Congrats to Tim Mullen NER ITB Golf III ITB...

2 RACES WITH CAR,
2 VERY DIFFERENT TRACKS
2 THIRD PLACE FINISHES WITH 15+ CAR FIELDS


Raymond "We will catch you!!!" Blethen
RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com (http://www.rstperformance.com)

[JOESELLSVW]

Joining back in on this thread... I bought a 96 GTI tonight to build into an ITB car. I'll be doing some heavy stripping in order to get the car to the fabricator by the 20th. What are people doing for removing the poewr steering rack? Does the A2 rack work? Just the start of my questions......JOE

[Bill Miller]

Joe, I'm not an A3 guy, but didn't they all come w/ power steering? If so, you can't remove the rack. If you can, you'd need an non-power A3 rack. If the A2 rack is the same part #, fine. Otherwise, you'll need the A3 part.

BTW, congrats on the new car!!!

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

What Bill said. I've had a couple of reputable builders say, "Oh, yeah - it's OK to take off the power steering" or "Just loop the hose" but I've yet to see where in the book that is allowed.

K

[HOOSER 99]

According to my local VW parts computer the non PS rack for the A3 has the same part # as the 91-92 A2. for what thats worth

jerry monaghan

[Dave Zaslow]

Jerry,

Does that user-friendly computer tell you what model that rack came on?

Does anyone have a spec sheet for an A3 Golf City(the stripper)?

Dave Z

[Knestis]

Does that user-friendly computer tell you what U.S. model that rack came on?

Not being argumentative - I'd love to know the answer, either way.

K

[Fastfred92]

Already been down this road myself,,,, there is NO U.S. spec car sold from 93-99 Mk III that used manual steering. The City had power steering. I have raced with plenty of IT guys that have eliminated the PS but it is not legal on this car. I have EKTA on my computer if anyone has any other questions re: options etc. Canada may have a non PS car and I know that Mexico has Mk III without PS. BTW I have finally gotten response from a letter I sent to VWoA 2 years ago asking if any Golf III sports ( 1995 ) came from the factory without sunroof and there reply was yes.... a total of 232 cars were either special ordered or just misordered with SR delete in 1995. Rare car.

[Dave Zaslow]

I know where one of those rare cars are. It is in great condition too. And it's red ;-)No, he won't sell it for any reasonble price. Believe me, I've tried.

I have amassed VW brochures for all Golf model years. None feature derivative models such as the '95 City or Celebration. None give any 'technical' information. They are pretty useless. The City is the one we've got to score from somewhere. Perhaps a Monroney sticker?

Anyone?

Dave Z

PS If someone wants to host scans of the brochures, I will create the files as PDF's.

[Knestis]

Send me the PDFs and I'll host them.

K

[GRMPer]

I had one of them, the car trophied at Solo II Nats in 96. Weighed under 2400lbs stock.

Per

>BTW I have finally gotten response from a letter I >sent to VWoA 2 years ago asking if any Golf III >>sports ( 1995 ) came from the factory without >>>>sunroof and there reply was yes.... a total of 232 >cars were either special ordered or just >>misordered with SR delete in 1995. Rare car.

[JOESELLSVW]

Well my GTI is gutted. There's a lot more crap in an A3 than the A2 cars! The good thing is that I'm getting some cash out of the parts in the interior, unlike the A2 cars. $40. for used floor mats! I was hoping that someone would find a way for manual steering for the A3's, but I guess I'm wrong. I've bit off a bit of a challenge by doing a 96 with OBD II. Kirk, we'll have to pool some information since it looks like we're some of the few "late" cars in the field. I plan to have the car ready for the Labor Day double MARRS event. The car goes to be caged next week. I removed a few hundred pounds (or so it seemed) of interior junk, but I really don't see how I can get the car down to minimum weight.... legally. BSI is having Techtonics make a header for the car. Kirk do you have any idea what you're going to do trans wise? JOE

[Knestis]

You are right on about the parts situation. I got $300 for my seats when they came out this past week...

I don't know for sure yet what the 'box treatment will be, remembering that I'm actually a year ahead of where I planned to be on the IT transformation. For the balance of this year, the car will be in "ITB-minus" trim and I'll run stock ratios - and an open diff. Whee!

Stu B. thinks that the car will need a horrific low FD to overcome the ratio split weakness. I've yet to run any gear charts for the options but I wouldn't be surprised if that were indeed the case. The trick will be not ever needing 2nd.

I am a HUGE fan of the VW Motorsports clutch-type diff, from our rallying days. They ain't cheap but they work. I'm going to start my search there. Or a spool...

I'm *finally* picking up a used engine and trans the first week of June so the plan is to swap them in for the rest of the season and start making decisions and building the higher-mileage ones that came in the car. The 'box that I'm buying was a dealer-installed warranty replacement that has 3500 miles on it. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

I'm working on an adjustable rear bar option and will keep you - and anyone else interested - updated through www.it2.evaluand.com/gti (http://www.it2.evaluand.com/gti). It'll be an evolution of the one Fred A. built for the car Jason W. now has.

K

[m glassburner]

How much is that header going to cost??

[D. Shine]

That clutch type limited slip you love so much will cause undue understeer and prevent ever making the car handle as well as it needs to to become competetive.It will also wear quickly and cause more heat than you need.
I have noticed everyone talking about everything but handling! It is far more important than any motor! The gearing is the easiest IT car I have ever done!Get a dyno sheet and go to it.

Dick Shine

[Knestis]

What mechanism is involved in the understeer problem, Dick? Is it during the braking/off-throttle/turn-in transitions that it starts? I'm willing to look at any option but I like to be able to think about why, even if I'm slow on the uptake sometimes...

K

[D. Shine]

The amount of friction between the wheels is an understeer moment because it resists the wheels trying to travel a different arc when cornering.
I have tried this plenty,and though all the drivers always liked the feel,they were always slower with a clutch type over a Quaife and sometimes slower than an open diff.The only thing that was slower was a locker.

Dick Shine

[Knestis]

Thanks - that makes sense.

K

[Bildon]

>> That clutch type limited slip you love so much will cause undue understeer and prevent ever making the car handle as well as it needs to to become competetive.

http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/eek.gif I have heard only good things about Shine Racing. Therefore it comes as a great surprise to read this. Could you expand upon this train of thought? You must be referring to improperly setup clutch type diffs, because the commnets above contradict most common knowledge.

------------------
Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport (http://www.bildon.com)
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2003 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##

[Dave Zaslow]

Dick,

So what is in Tim's car?

Tim,

How does it feel to you? Those thirds are adding up!

Dave Z

[D. Shine]

It should be obvious what is in Tims car!

Dick Shine

[D. Shine]

And BTW What is common knowledge? I dont think it is really too common. I get knowledge from research and testing. I dont think that is common enough.I am glad we are moving the discussion to things that matter finally! I certainly wouldnt want to ask my drivers to drive one of these without power steering.

Dick Shine

[JOESELLSVW]

We have to think about suspension? I thought that all I had to do was install it!
After all I ordered it from you Dick! Just got the new camber plates and rear strut bearings last week. Soon to swap everything over from the A2 car after the cage is put in. I'm interested in your insights on the gearbox. I'm not looking forward to buying something that I don't like. Summit Point is the track that I run most often, what would you reccomend? JOE

[Bildon]

>> common knowledge? I dont think it is really too common.

In IT I'd say your're right.

However to say this:

"...ever making the car handle as well as it needs to to become competetive"

... is simply misleading.

- Bill

[D. Shine]

How is that misleading?

Dick Shine

[Bildon]

Hey I don't want to get into an argument online as it usually ends badly ...
Forums are great for diseminating raw info but they are terrible for REAL communication.

Let's just say that contrary to your comments above about limited slips, I have seen them improve laps times by up to 2 seconds per lap even on low HP FWD cars. (I'm also sure there are situations where this is not true)

We could go on and on about the differences in driving styles, friction, ackerman, slip angles, LSD positive effects on braking, etc, etc, etc. I do believe that you may HAVE seen some drivers go faster on some tracks with certain cars without a LSD. All I'm saying is that they do not "prevent cars from being competitive" << that's the misleading part.

Our cars have won that last few NYSRRC championships in ITB with ltd slips. When I lived in Atlanta I recall a Bildon GTI (with limited slip) leading (from pole) the ARRC Enduro in front of Mr. Albin and Mr. Quindazzi. (sorry couldn't resist) http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

Our current ITS Corrado is still without the final trans and therefore without a ltd. slip. Perhaps I'll post my findings when we swap in the Ricardo.


------------------
Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport (http://www.bildon.com)
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2003 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##

[Knestis]

I've got a sneaking suspicion that the answer to the question of whether the clutch-type or "other" diff is faster might be, "Yes, depending on driver preference and set-up."

Dick's position on the clutch option - and the welded diff only moreso - is that it will tend to understeer. That much is probably true, conditionally...

My experience with a homemade spool supports that this is the case during off-throttle turn-in situations. It is also easier to bind the car up on a solid diff, turning the car down to the apex - because you can - pretty much regardless of what kind of speed you are carrying: Confidence ehnancing but slow.

I'd bet that someone who is a trail-braker and gets to the gas quickly won't have nearly the problem with the front wheels interconnected - directly or through a clutch - while someone with a more "traditional," even-throttle-to-the-apex approach will see better times with a Quaife.

K

[Knestis]

Update...

If anyone wants to know the secret to disabling the steering lock on one of these beasts, let me know. I just finished wasting a week of my life getting it worked out.

I also got all of the goo out of the floors (although not the tunnel). It's like those Macintosh carmels from Canada: If you try to push it around, it just bends but if you whack it, it breaks and comes out reasonably easily. Except for where it has been kept gooey by the exhaust heat, where it requires a propane torch and scraper. GoofOff takes the residue off really well - with a 3M sruffy pad to encourage it - and when you paint the floor with my favorite brush-on Rustoleum, they turn out really niiiice.

I'm still working on the rear ARB solution and think I have a solution.

More to come and I'm keeping track of everything at www.it2.evaluand.com/gti (http://www.it2.evaluand.com/gti) if anyone wants to follow along...

EDIT - Everyone needs to try one of these...

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/rallyx2.jpg

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited June 08, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited June 09, 2004).]

[Jason Weaver]

Website is looking great!

------------------
Jason

[theenico]

I guess that Albin's lap times (welded diff) must be an exception. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

Personally, I don't like how the Quaife acts like an open diff when you get a front wheel off the ground. I really like clutch types, but since I can't justify the price of either, I'll stick with the welded diff.

------------------
Nico
KCRaceware (816) 257-7305
[email protected]

[Eric Parham]

With all that talk about diffs, I guess I should add my experiences and my knowledge, which happen to slightly contradict each other in this case.

Knowledge-wise, Dick Shine is completely correct that a torque-biasing ("TB") differential (e.g., Quaife, Torsen, Peloquin, etc.), which, BTW, is *not* really a "limited-slip", has a theoretical advantage over a clutch-type or any other "limited slip" when trying to maximize the handling of a FWD car (with front steering).

Consider, for example, a locked diff or spool. In a steady-state corner, the inside wheel is turning faster than optimal and the outside wheel is turning slower than optimal. The effect when both front tires have traction is that engine power is wasted and cornering traction is sacrificed since the friction circle dictates that the grip wasted fighting the opposite side tire is unavailable for cornering. If the inside tire loses traction, then the outside tire no longer has to "fight" the inside, but now both longitudinal and transverse traction is sacrificed due to the overloading effect on the tire (e.g., a tire with twice the load will have much less than twice the traction, unless one substitutes a MUCH larger tire, which would have other drawbacks).

A limited slip (e.g., clutch-type), has the same *type* of compromise effects as a locked diff up to the point that the static breakaway torque is overcome, but then the similar dynamic operating torque of the limited slip causes the same negative effects as for the locker, but limits those negative effects to a preset amount (namely, the static breakaway or dynamic operating torques).

A torque-biasing ("TB") differential does not have the above drawbacks (well, actually it does but to a *MUCH* lesser extent). Thus, in a steady-state corner, the ultimate cornering limit will be significantly higher for a FWD (and front-steer) car than for any locked or limited-slip equipped car.

Only where there is virtually no lateral weight transfer or insufficient power to lose traction can a completely open diff compare favorably.

Now, I've driven open, VW Motorsport clutch-type limited slip (thanks Dick http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif, Quaife torque-biasing, and welded diffs all in the same type of car (FWD A1 chassis VW). In my experience, the open diff was always slowest but a good learning tool (even minor mistakes give instant feedback in the form of a spinning tire and/or greatly increased lap time). The clutch-type limited slip was great, but noticeably (in low-powered car) wasted some engine power in steady-state corners (and not so noticeably wasted ultimate cornering grip in tire-limited car). The Quaife was excellent, but eliminated several of my favorite "two-wheel-off" passing and/or safety-margin zones http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif The locked diff needed huge tires and tons of power to turn them...

Conclusion: The Quaife (a torque-biasing diff) is fantastic for time-trials and consistent low-traction conditions (rain, snow, etc.). The spool is unthinkable when both engine power and tire (or wheel) size is limited by rules. The VWM clutch-pack is an in-between compromise that doesn't give up too much (except maintenance) while permitting one-wheel-in-the-dirt passes (which never fail to put a smile on my face) and reasonable performance with inconsistent track conditions. So, as for me, I'll run my VWM clutch-pack more often than my Quaife in IT, even though I realize that it's theoretically worse, as long as I have the time (and parts) to maintain it http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

[racer14itc]

Question for Mr. Shine:

What is your opinion of the European "pawl and pin" diff, as used/described by Anthony Angioletti in the Kamei B-sedan and GT3/GT4 Rabbit? I have one of those diffs in my GP car right now, and it seems to work well. It's similar to the Quaife in that you have to stay off the curbs, otherwise the inside wheel will spin momentarily until the tires touches the ground again. It seems to lock up very smoothly under power, and unlock smoothly under braking and corner entry, allowing the car to point into the corners.

I've driven open diffs (very early on in my racing career), VWMS limited slip (love it), Quaife (very good, but as I mentioned above you have to keep the inside tire on the ground), and the Euro "pawl and pin" diff. One thing not mentioned about the Quaife is that it is very heavy compared to the other diffs and in low hp cars, there is a small 'flywheel' effect as a result.

So far my fastest lap times in the GP Scirocco have been with the Euro pawl & pin diff.

MC

[D. Shine]

The cam and pawl is really interesting!
The things actually wear too rapidly for me and put a lot of metal in the oil. I suppose they are somewhat of a compromise like a clutch type,with more positive locking and some strange characteristics when in transition.
I have only worked with them a little,so I really cant say with authority how they compare.
I havent seen one in 20 years!

Dick Shine

[racer14itc]

Cam & Pawl - that's it! I bought the diff on a whim, as a backup to my VWMS limited slip and the quaife for the GP car. I knew that this type of diff had been used in VW's in the late 70's and early 80's by Angioletti and others. Interestingly, it was used but there were two BRAND NEW drive plates (the cams) with it as spares! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

I had it setup & reassembled properly and have run it in two races this year. At each track I was over a second faster than my previous best. I really figured the newer technology like the Quaife would be faster, but I guess "old school" works sometimes too!

Thanks for the input, Dick!

MC

------------------
Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Airborn Coatings/The Shop VW
Scirocco
Zephyr Race Coaching and Consulting
http://pages.prodigy.net/Scirocco14gp

[Knestis]

That's what we used to call a "ZF" LSD, right, Mark? I could be wrong but I think that the Gemini gearbox that my old rally bud is using now has that type diff rather than the clutch-pack.

K

[Bill Miller]

Mark,

I remember hearing about these things years ago. Who was making them?

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Bill Miller]

Kirk (or anyone else that knows), where did you guys source your aftermarket seat rails. I have a friend that's looking to get rails to install a Sparco seat in an A3. TIA for your help.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

Toward the end of the summer, I'm might be wanting to sell my RECARO sliding seat mount. It goes on the stock channels and has what are essentially universal brackets on the top, to which the ubiquitous side brackets bolt. It's a little too high for the big guys that I'm going to have in the car for the 13 hour enduro.

K

[Bill Miller]

Keep me posted Kirk. Also, shoot me an email w/ how much you'd like to get for them.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[madrabbit15]

I know you guys like your limited slips but I have yet to drive a fwd car with a limited slip (Dodge, Honda, VW) as fast as one with a welded differential. I love the welded in a vw and if I was to ever build another Fwd car, it would most certainly be a welded. It is a pain in the butt to deal with in the pits or if the car breaks, but otherwise its just plain faster than anything else in the turns and pulling out of the turns. If anything it might hurt in high speed turns but I have run it at Lowes and could not see it to be any disadvantgage over other vw's that had more HP than me. Just my opinion.

[Racescort]

Same here! I welded my diff. and the car seems to drive great. I dont feel any funny movments under braking or turns. It feels real smooth.

------------------
Doug
87 Golf GTI
[email protected]

[Knestis]

Update - Konis, springs, and a whopping great rear bar are going in and it looks like I'll be running the CCPS "enduro" at VIR the first weekend of August, as a test-and-tune.

Someone buy Jason's car and come out and play.

K

[JOESELLSVW]

I dropped my car off at the fabricator to install the cage. I'm pretty much on schedule for the first race over the Labor Day weekend. By the end of the month the cage and suspension will be done. I used the steel sunroof from a 92 Passat to weld into place of the glass unit which I sold on E Bay for $200! I'm also using the factory seat mount as a sliding bracket for my Kirkey seat... I'm psyched that I'll have an adjustable seat for enduro codrivers. I can't wait to scale the car after the suspension goes in. Kirk what does your car weigh? What about the car in the North East? Is it possible to get down to the minimum? JOE

[Knestis]

I understand from Jason that he's sold his car. I didn't get any of the details so don't know if it stayed in the area or not.

News on our front is that we had our ITB debut today at VIR after building and installing struts last night. Removing the interior and floor tar removed 125# and that plus the KONIs, springs (500/450, F/R), and whopping great rear bar made for an instant gain of 5 seconds.

The car is probably faster but I think that I'm personally slower since it now tends toward oversteer rather than slow-but-safe underplow.

More at www.it2.evaluand.com/gti (http://www.it2.evaluand.com/gti) under the Events link.

K

[Knestis]

BTW, the brakes were NOT terrible with the ABS sensors disconnected.

K

[Knestis]

Detail work and development continue at http://www.it2.evaluand.com/gti/build2.php

Besides Joe and myself, where are the other MkIII's that are being developed? Jason's "Fritz" went to OH, and there's the guy in the NE - any contact info for him?

K

[OTLimit]

Chris' new car made it's debut at Mid-America Motorplex this past weekend and brought home 2 checkered flags. It is still rough and needs some tweaking. Pictures soon (but it's yellow with blue, in case you couldn't guess).


------------------
Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers

[JOESELLSVW]

Ah ha ! the 200th post in this thread! I just got back from seeing my car at the fabricator. Cage is cimong along nicely, albeit a little later than I'd prefer. I'm going to be busy this weekend getting ready for MARRS Labor Day. Should be fun! The acr will probably arrive at the track with the A/C intact.... hope it's a hot one! JOE

[RSTPerformance]

K-

The car in the NE is Tim Mullen's. The car is was built and is being preped by Shine Racing Services. Car looks very nice but they still have sorting to do from my understanding he still hasn't beaten his best times from the rabbit. He would know best though, and I am sure he will post. he lurks around here every now and then!!! Speak up Tim, show your face http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif. he he

I can't wait till he gets the car all sorted out. He is fast and a good driver. Certainly will make things even more interesting than they already are at the front. Last race at Lime Rock had the top 10 cars were within 1 second of each other (lap times) and almoast all the cars were different makes/models!!! Can't wait to see another one in the hunt!!!

Raymond

[Bill Miller]

I thought Dave Zaslow was building one too. Dave???

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Dave Zaslow]

My progress is glacially slow, but it is getting there.

The car is stripped and gutted, the floor rot is repaired, the bottom end is together, the trans is almost finished, the head is disassembled, The cage tubing is laying on the fabricator's floor, all major parts are in hand or on their way, etc., etc. I hope to have it out in the fall.

Meanwhile Joel High and I have moved my smashed Rabbit's engine and trans to his shell and have run a few events. We will be at the NARRC-offs with Joel driving.

Dave Z

[JOESELLSVW]

I get to pick up my car tonight! Let the spending begin! Should be a lot of fun over the next few days as I scramble to get this thing ready for Summit Point. Any tips for someone who's never had to have a logbook started? My first car was a seasoned veteran before I bought it. Joe

[Knestis]

Borrow the right damned special tool to pull the steering wheel adapter when you do the steering lock removal.

K

[Knestis]

Hey, also - I'm on a lightening binge and am looking at the stock airbox. Anyone given any thought to the aftermarket air intake options?

K

[Eric Parham]

Kirk: Whatever you do, don't let any heated air in or your lbs/hp will go the wrong way. For example, one of my GTI VR6s got noticebly slower with a simple cone filter (although it sounded faster and certainly weighed less). I've seen some pretty good plans on Vortex for heat shields, though.

[JOESELLSVW]

Kirk, Thanks to your email I already solved the steering wheel issue. Working at a dealership has advantages in the tool procurement department. I used the uick realease from OG racing... fits right on without having to use the adapter for the wheel. Very nice. The only ting is the steering shaft nut was a little big to clear the snap ring so I buzzed it down a little. Works great and wasn't that expensive. Now the task of refitting the dash! I also have to paint the cage. This is all between today and tomorrow. BY the end of the weekend I'll do brakes, fluids, ABS sensor removal, hopefully AC, and mount the rearview mirror. Big plans....... little time! JOE

[JOESELLSVW]

Well, the coilovers are in, the ABS disconnected, fire bottle in, seat mounted, mirror mounted, victoracers are on, headlights taped, the dash is in but not secure. Tonight I should start wiring up the kill switch and transponder. Tomorrow.... cage padding, fluid flush, rear sway bar, passenger door panel, and finish up the kill switch. The car looks good! I'm excited about this weekend. I'm going to do the Friday test day to put some laps on the car to help sort it out. JOE

[theenico]

Now that I know how to post pictures...
Chris's tired old car...
http://tinypic.com/3ts8j
Chris's shiny new car...
http://tinypic.com/3ts81 http://tinypic.com/3ts9j

I built the cage http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

------------------
Nico
KCRaceware (816) 257-7305
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by theenico (edited August 30, 2004).]

[JOESELLSVW]

Well the A3 has hit the track! I completed the last minute effort to get my GTI out on the track with help of swome really great friends.. Joe Fritz helped me put the clutch in the car. Steve Snow wired the transponder and kill switch. Gerry Walsh applied the graphics. Sean Christie and girlfriend Maureen scavenged roll bar padding and helped get a last minute fabrication effort together to get the window net in place for the logbook / annual tech. My good friends at OG Racing, Dave and Terri Parker, Matthew Yip, and Tom all helped out with tech support and at the track advice, what a group! Just a reminder to support those who support the sport! The tech crew at Summit were especially helpful as always. I had a great time out on the track but having the help of everyone ther to get me out there was an even bigger high. Thanks again... you guys made my weekend, if not my year!
On the track.. I was rusty, to say the least. I was really looking to learn about the car and to get the two races done for this year to preserve my license. I'll really need to get the Hawk blues to fit on the car as I wore through the street pads on Monday's race. I had a near spin at turn one when I tried to brake a little deep! There were reports from turn five on full metal to metal braking with glowing rotors and sparks! I toned it down for the last few laps to preserve the finish. The car weighed in at 2616 with driver. I think that I can find some of the 266 pounds that thecar needs to lose. The AC is still in the car, the spare tire, and the Remus exhaust, as well as the all kinds of removeable bits. I think that I can easily remove about 150 pounds from the car without too much difficulty. I hope to post pics this week. Joe

[Knestis]

Joe's in the club! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

K

[RSTPerformance]

Tim Mullen got his car running very quick this past weekend in the Northeast... Anyone building one might want to give him a call if you are having any troubles...

Good job Tim!!! Glad to see you in the mirrors http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif :-P JK!!!

Raymond

[TimM ITB]

Raymond - Yup, FINALLY starting to get this new little beast sorted out. After the last outing at NHIS, and what I thought was a fuel system problem from the symptoms, turns out it was a distributor gone "bad" - as bizarre and rare as that is! FINALLY got the car to turn rather than plow, that is, until I made the rather ridiculous decision to try and stretch a set of "already stretched" tires, just one more race. Turn 3 became a disaster, finally off-roading at the exit of 3 - Ray - you know that drill, yes?

Anyway, one more race left and probably just as well. This "sorting out" or "development" stuff can get pretty damned frustrating. There were many times this season when I wished for my 83 Rabbit. At least after a couple of seasons with that car I knew how to get through a corner - this was a whole new learning experience.

Now if I can just go on a 127 pound diet between now and Lime Rock in 3 weeks, I should be all set!!

Tim M

[Knestis]

What FD ratio are you running, Tim? I ran a local club driver school this past weekend on the new VIR Patriot Course. It has an awful curving uphill section and I was REALLY wishing I had that spare 'box rebuilt and ready to go.

K

[OTLimit]

Originally posted by TimM ITB:
it was a distributor gone "bad" - as bizarre and rare as that is! Tim M


Not as bizarre or rare as you might think. One of the cars we bought had a problem, and that was the last thing Chris changed. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif


------------------
Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers

[Eric Parham]

Finally bought a non-sunroof 2-dr. Interestingly, it seems to be a "1995 GL". Built in 6/94 as a 95 model year (VIN and Title), with few options, steel wheels, base-model seats, etc. So, this means that both GL and Sport versions of the 2-Dr were sold as 95s.

Cut cage out of 95 Jetta, so we've got a headstart on that. Hopefully running one tired old Scirocco at The Glen (Fun One Double) this weekend to keep my license (unless anyone near there offers a VW rental).

Cheers,
Eric

[This message has been edited by Eric Parham (edited September 14, 2004).]

[Knestis]

The NE seems have seen more market penetration when those cars were new. I have yet to see any of these variants in the SE.

K

[Vantage #51]

Hi Guys,
We at Vantage have a 95 GTi with S/R and air that will be racerfied this winter.
All depends how the old one runs at Atlanta.
Derek

[Knestis]

Looks like I've found a freebie parted out shell that will be the basis for our next MkIII.

Also, If anyone is interested, I have a drawing done for the part and a local shop that could churn out a batch of sunroof covers - with corners radiused and rivet holes pre-drilled. The more that they make, the cheaper they are so let me know if you want one.

It might seem silly to some people but I'm discovering that my time is valuable enough that I'm money ahead to farm some of this stuff out, particularly since I don't have all of the tools that I used to.

K

[Bill Miller]

I love the picture of Chris' A3 w/ the snowflakes! I just got new tires for my A3 street car, and mounted them on an old set of snowflakes. They look good on the car!!!! I can't even count how many of those wheels I've had over the years.


Hey Joe, shoot me an email millerwj_at_yahoo

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Jason Weaver]

Originally posted by Knestis:
[B]Looks like I've found a freebie parted out shell that will be the basis for our next MkIII.

This means Pablo will have a brother!?! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif


------------------
Jason

[Knestis]

...or a sister, maybe. My rally heritage is showing when I start thinking about having a caged shell on hand, just in case.

K

[OTLimit]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
I love the picture of Chris' A3 w/ the snowflakes! I just got new tires for my A3 street car, and mounted them on an old set of snowflakes. They look good on the car!!!! I can't even count how many of those wheels I've had over the years.


They are still the mainstay of his wheel supply for ITB. Buys all of them he can find at the junk yards, and it's amazing how many of them are still out there and in good condition.



------------------
Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers

[Bill Miller]

They came on a lot of cars (even Quantums) Lesley, and they're pretty popular. I do remember when my A1 GTI got hit in '87, I had a hard time finding them at the j/y, and when I did find them, they were not cheap!

Oh, and please tell Chris congrats for me, on his 4th at the Runoffs!

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

I tried something different on my sunroof plug - painting it black to emulate the OE dark tinted glass.

I figured that it would be more idiot-proof than trying to match the stock white.

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/sunroof.jpg

We also have a coooool part for the enduro.

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/pod1.jpg

Carbon fiber is so hard to capture with a digital camera. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

It came from my rally buddy in Seattle and is a duplicate of the one he has. It's just mocked up for the picture...

K

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by theenico:
http://tinypic.com/3ts9j

I built the cage http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif



Not trying to nitpick on this, but doesn't the GCR require the diagonal in the main hoop to be continuous, and the lateral bar to be spliced at the diagonal?


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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

I had to admit that I hadn't thought about it until he asked, but Bildon asked if our class victory at the VIR 13 hours was the first ITB win for a MkIII Golf.

I actually think that it might be (whee!) but does anyone know if someone else beat us to it?

K

[OTLimit]

Sorry, Kirk. August 21/22 Chris posted his first two victories in the new car.

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Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers

[JOESELLSVW]

Kirk, I just removed the AC compressor for my car and started to install the new water pump pulley that you mentioned way back in this thread..... is it suposed to be smooth, mine is..no grooves? What are you using for a tensioner...the Bentley manual mentions a large coil spring under the alternator that tensions the serp belt. This sound familiar? Joe

[Dave Zaslow]

Joel,

BTDT. Yes, the pulley is smooth. You should replace the entire tensioner assembly with a new one. This is a known failure point. The tensioner spring is on the right of the tensioner assembly. Look below and to the right of the alternator. For routing the serpentine belt, look at the diagram in E**a for the various belt arrangements. If you don't have E**a available I can pdf the diagram and email it.

Have Fun,

Dave Z

[JOESELLSVW]

Dave, Thank you! Could you email that to me? [email protected] . This means that I must replace the whole bracket with a different style or do I keep this same style and replace with new? I appreciate your help! Joe

[Knestis]

Thanks for bringing this one back to the top, Joe. I sent an email but I'll try to get some pics to post.

K

EDIT - the little socket head bolt in the end of the tensioner is one of a very few failure points we had last year.

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited February 16, 2005).]

[Fastfred92]

Kirk

Contact me offline at: falphin(at)acs-rdu.com during business hours. I have some Mk III parts from Fritz you might be able to use...

Fred

[Knestis]

I'm giving up.

I just can't bring myself to run an illegal 4th gear ratio and can't find the "old style" .97 so I'm going to install my pimpy LSD behind the original, tall R&P ratio.

If you have a clever solution that I haven't considered, I'd love to hear it - and by "clever" I mean "not illegal." I did get a chuckle out of some of the creative suggestions from shops around the country during my search - like the guy who asked me twice in the same conversation which 5th gear I wanted to run (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)... http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif

K

[Knestis]

I've been battling with a too-long serp belts, using the "right" one and finally found a couple of NAPA part numbers for slightly shorter options. If you find the same problem, email me and I'll send the info.

Also, the warning above about tensioners is a good one. I just found my second bad one.

K

[Eric Parham]

Hey Kirk, I could use a couple of those metal sunroof covers. How much do they weigh?

Also, not sure what exactly is your gearbox dilemma, but it seems like A3 3-4-5 would work well with a 4.25-4.60 R&P for short tracks and maybe the 3.94 for longer ones. I can't imaging the 3.67 being worth keeping, though, if the box is coming apart anyway.

[Knestis]

I confess that I don't know how much the cover weighed but there are tables that will tell you the per-square-foot weights for sheetmetal. I have a cheap-O-CAD drawing if you want it, or I could ask the people who did mine if they would do a couple more. Shipping would add to the cost of course.

The gearbox problem hinged on the fact that the earlier pinion shaft (3.94) out of a MkII uses a differently configured 4th gear than that in the MkIII CHE 'box. Since I last posted, my Charlotte-area gearbox guy HAS found the proper 4th gearset http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif so we are back on track on that front. If my freebie R&P are good - and I'm not an expert by any means - we may yet finish this project.

Fact, based on what I have learned with this project - YOU CANNOT simply bolt an earlier R&P onto the stack of gears that come in a MkIII transmission.

Opinion, formed while doing the same - Anyone who tells you that's what they did might simply be fibbing about what gear ratios they are running since, "Nobody would ever put up a bond to take apart an IT transmission."

I confess that I was tempted to take the easy way out with that 1.13 4th there for a while. And heck, why not use a .91 fifth if we're starting down that road...?

K

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited March 14, 2005).]

[Eric Parham]

I'd like to take you up on the CAD drawing. I think I know where I could get it implemented locally. [email protected]

I guess the correct ratio 4th for the OEM short R&P could be sourced from a 1976-1980 Rabbit 4-spd (or 5-spd, for that matter), which had the same 0.97.

[Dave Zaslow]

I've plumbed in an oil cooler, removing the old water-cooled one. The stub ends of the radiator hoses feeding the stock cooler need to be plugged as I could not find a hose without these. I got lucky and found an aftermarket hose that was not pre-molded, but made up of sections of hose and plastic tees. A couple of 5/8" heater block-off caps from Pep Boys took care of the stubs.

Next time I'll remember to order the shorter threaded pipe, for the much thinner sandwich plate, ahead of time.

Have Fun,

Dave Z

[Knestis]

Woo-hoo!

Just when I had given up, Charlotte-area VW gearbox guy Geoff Zimmer found the correct 4th gear for my 'box and it's ready to pick up - 3.94 FD, KAAZ and all.

K

[Ralf]

I think earlier in the thread, there was a question of any non-sunroof cars out there. Guess they do exist.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...4536169884&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15292&item=4536169884&rd=1)

[Ralf]

edit.

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited March 22, 2005).]

[JOESELLSVW]

Total trick photography! How did they have that car actually running without tripping the Check Engine Light? Wait 'til VW finds out about this, they'll have to fix it for free. Just wondering, are the pedal covers IT legal? How many horsepower do the "R" badges add? Will I have to run a restrictor plate with tha exhaust? Ha. Slow day today. Joe

[psykokid]

Originally posted by Dave Zaslow:
I've plumbed in an oil cooler, removing the old water-cooled one. The stub ends of the radiator hoses feeding the stock cooler need to be plugged as I could not find a hose without these. I got lucky and found an aftermarket hose that was not pre-molded, but made up of sections of hose and plastic tees. A couple of 5/8" heater block-off caps from Pep Boys took care of the stubs.

Next time I'll remember to order the shorter threaded pipe, for the much thinner sandwich plate, ahead of time.

Have Fun,

Dave Z

s-shaped hose
026 121 053G - $16.41
short hose
068 121 063M - $11.30
oil filter stud for aftermarket cooler
059 115 721 - $1.32
those are the correct hoses to delete the factory heat exchanger. not too terribly expensive either. one less failure point to be had..


[This message has been edited by psykokid (edited March 22, 2005).]

[Knestis]

That's great info - would you be interested in letting me add it to the tech notes page on my site?

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/tech.php

If so, let me know how you want the credit to read.

K

[psykokid]

Originally posted by Knestis:
That's great info - would you be interested in letting me add it to the tech notes page on my site?

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/tech.php

If so, let me know how you want the credit to read.


K

Go ahead and add it to your site.. no need for credit.

Just a few tid bits of info i collected on all the parts i needed to make my daily corrado a lil less portly and a lil more efficient.

Always glad to help when i can http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

[vwmann1]

Originally posted by psykokid:
s-shaped hose
026 121 053G - $16.41
short hose
068 121 063M - $11.30
oil filter stud for aftermarket cooler
059 115 721 - $1.32
those are the correct hoses to delete the factory heat exchanger. not too terribly expensive either. one less failure point to be had..


[This message has been edited by psykokid (edited March 22, 2005).]
I just pulled these part numbers and I don't think they will work for the ABA engine. The top hose on the ABA goes to the rear of the head not to the middle of the head like on your Coprrado with the PG engine. The little hose could work if you back dated to the mkII metal pipe that goes to the heater.

I will spend some time with ETKA to see if I can find it.



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Doug Hillmann

[Dave Zaslow]

Small thing learned this week.....

The stock power wiring has one 2 gauge (black)and two 8 gauge (red & red/white)wires at the positive battery terminal. The black goes to a large stud on the starter and the reds go off to the fusebox.

In wiring the battery disconnect one needs to run new 2 gauge to the switch amd thence back to the starter stud. The reds then also need to be transferred to that stud. To get them there, their routing needs to be changed.

Remove the battery and unsrew the two 10mm nuts holding the red wires to the battery terminal. Undo the 10mm bolts to remove the battery support. Unscrew the captive allen bolt holding the power steering reservoir to the battery support. Now you can take the plate out of the car and see the wiring running underneath it. Free the bundle from the plastic clips and unwrap the cloth tape to free the reds from the bundle they are in. You will have to go all the way back to where they used to disappear under the tray. The new route uses the same path as the one for the engine ground. The lugs on the reds will have to be reamed out slightly to fit over the starter lug. Re-wrap to protect the wires, then assembly is the reverse of removal.

Special bonus feature! If you are putting the disconnect inside the car you need to run through the firewall. Looking from the engine compartment to where the various wiring bundles go through, you may see a plugged hole. Remove the plug and you have a 7/8" hole through; big enough for the dual 2 gauge and the smaller wires to kill the 12v side of the coil.

Have Fun,

Dave Z