A4 Car Classification

[Bildon]

I decided to open another thread as the WC A3 thread was seriously highjacked (guilty) http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/redface.gif

So anyway, here is what I received today:

Bill,
No one has requested these cars. I have attached a VTS sheet that is required for classification. Please fill it out and email it back to: [email protected].

You can also mail it to the Club Racing Board at:
SCCA
Attn: John Bauer
P.O. Box 19400
Topeka, KS 66619

And some history on the topic for those who didn't read the other....

>> The A4 2L in ITB should be an easy "sell" and the VR6 in ITS too. The A3 cars are already there. Why not?
If anyone wants to starts writing letters I'll submit the paperwork for the '99.5-00 A4 cars.

>> I did some poking around for fun and the MkIV (1999) 2.0 Golf GLS weighs in at about 200# more in stock form, than does the MkIII 2.0 GTI (1998)

>> I will submit a request for the 99.5 up cars ! Afterall they listend to me about the Mk III after a couple years.



------------------
Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport (http://www.bildon.com)
Volkswagen Racing Equipment

[Andy Bettencourt]

Wanna list what you are specifically asking for here?

Year(s)
HP
TQ

I am not sure the CRB is currently considering cars less that 5 years old for IT.

(edit) - spelling idiot

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM 1.6
Spec Miata 1.8
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[This message has been edited by Andy Bettencourt (edited January 17, 2005).]

[Bildon]

While filling this VTS form out I got to thinking how we often argue about the values that wind up determining how these cars are classed and the weight, etc they are classed at.

While I'm checking MVMA, Bentley and ETKA it would be interesting to see what others came up with for some of these numbers?

Weights, HP, Gear ratios, brakes, OEM wheel sizes for 1995.5-2000 VR6 and 2L Golf or Jettas.

As the later cars become classed we should see some interesting parts become available for these cars.

------------------
Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport (http://www.bildon.com)
Volkswagen Racing Equipment

[Bildon]

Andy, sorry this thread is probably confusing if you hadn't followed along on the "A3 WC car for sale" thread.

Not looking for info really, just providing info on the classification progress.
I'm asking that the A4 Golf/Jetta cars are classified. The A4 chassis was first sold in 1999.

------------------
Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport (http://www.bildon.com)
Volkswagen Racing Equipment

[Knestis]

Random thoughts:

I frankly wonder if the 2.0 can physically GET light enough to be competitive with other options in B.

It - and by extension, the New Beetle - would be weird C cers, with way more power and more weight than anything else in the class. I think people in Hondas would hate you for running one.

The MkIV VR6 cars might well make sensible ITS cars...

K

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Knestis:
Random thoughts:

I frankly wonder if the 2.0 can physically GET light enough to be competitive with other options in B.

It - and by extension, the New Beetle - would be weird C cers, with way more power and more weight than anything else in the class. I think people in Hondas would hate you for running one.

The MkIV VR6 cars might well make sensible ITS cars...

K

Well Kirk, the NB is in ITC, and the A4 Golf/Jetta 2.0 should go there as well, being as they're the same chassis, just different bodywork (ala the Rabbit/Scirocco). More power and weight than most of ITC? Yep, but as you pointed out, probably won't be able to make weight in ITB. BTW, when you were poking around, did you happen to see what stock weight on a n A4 Jetta GL 2.0 was? I seem to remember it was w/in 50# of a NB.



------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Bildon]

I'm requesting that the 2L Golf go to B.
Why is the Beetle in C? I mean really?
Is anyone racing it?

------------------
Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport (http://www.bildon.com)
Volkswagen Racing Equipment

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Bildon:
I'm requesting that the 2L Golf go to B.
Why is the Beetle in C? I mean really?
Is anyone racing it?



Bill,

This raises an interesting question. I think, given the new process in place for classifying/spec'ing cars, shouldn't it be up to the ITAC/CRB to determine which class a car goes in? Isn't that the whole point of using a process?

As far as the NB in ITC, give it a chance, it was only classified a few months ago, and IIRC, the classification only went into effect 1/1/05. Just how many Regionals have been run so far this year?

As far as having the NB in ITC, and the G/J in ITB, I think that sets a bad precedent (as well as not really making any sense). Same chassis, same drivetrain, same suspension, but different body work. Shouldn't dictate a different class. Solid example for them all being in the same class is the Rabbit/Scirocco one that I mentioned before.



------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

We should ask Darin to run the math and provide a baseline of what weight it MIGHT need to be, to end up in B. Then determine if it is feasible to get it there.

I know it doesn't make sense but it suits my sense of symmetry to have the MkIV Golf 2.0 in B at a lighter weight, since that's where it's ancestors are. The question is whether it is too much of a pig to make that work.

K

[Bildon]

I meant that I was going to suggest "B" based on the (my assumed) performance potential.

I knew the Beetle was classed but I guess I didn't realize it was in C until I read it here a few days ago.. I was shocked. OK well not shocked, but quite surprised.

I'm just going to put the paperwork in and we'll deal with the cards after they've fallen I suppose.

BTW, what's the Beetle weight in C ?
4 cyl torques IT weight
Golf 4, 122 lb-ft @ ????
Golf 3, 122 lb-ft @ 2350#
Golf 2, 107 lb-ft @ 2280#
Golf 1, 100 lb-ft @ 2180#

The Golf 4 is significantly heavier than it's predicessors, it has a narrower track (surprise). But it's lower, it narrow, it more aero... It's a hard one to figure out on paper.

------------------
Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport (http://www.bildon.com)
Volkswagen Racing Equipment

[This message has been edited by Bildon (edited January 18, 2005).]

[Greg Amy]

The 98-99 NB is listed at 2760# in ITC (oink, oink).

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let's not get into the New Beetle in ITC again? If you feel the need and you must discuss it, I insist you subject yourself to the 10-page prior discussion before proceeding further...

http://forum.improvedtouring.com/it/Forum2...TML/000699.html (http://forum.improvedtouring.com/it/Forum2/HTML/000699.html)

[Bill Miller]

Kirk,

Some of the ancestors are in B, some are in C, some have been moved from B to C (and some more may yet be moved). While I understand the symmetry comment, I'm not sure it is really germane to the discussion. I think the cars should probably be in B, but I also felt like that for the NB. However, since the NB is in C, I don't see how you can put the G/J IV in B.

Bill,

Quick comment on the NB in ITC (Don't worry Greg, I'm not going to go down that road again). Statements from ITAC members were that they did not feel that the NB would be able to shed enough weight to get down to the process-determined ITB weight. If you look through the thread that Greg pointed out, I think you'll find the reported curb weights of the G IV and J IV. As far as the G III in ITB @ 2350#, IIRC, Darin said that the process-determined ITB weight for that car was closer to 2450#, but the process wasn't in place when the car was moved from ITA to ITB, so there was no weight change. That goes back to some people not understanding that weights could be changed on reclassification, but I'm not going down that road either.

Also, might as well through the Golf I (Rabbit) in there as well.

Golf I (Rabbit) GTI (100 lb-ft @ 2180#)

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608