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VW16VRacer
12-29-2004, 11:23 PM
I am in search for front axles. I have been looking for the complete LOBRO axle kits that have all new parts. I have exhausted all my contacts, with out going to VW, to the tune of $500.00 each. If anybody has a source please let me know. As I said I am looking for new axles not reman units that have been to who knows where to be "rebuilt". I will shorten them as required.

A2 Golf 16V
100MM joints.

Knestis
12-30-2004, 12:29 AM
I got "real" CV joints from BSI and rebuilt my existing axles - less than $300. The most important trick is to not follow the directions that tell you to use the new spring washer. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

K

VW16VRacer
12-30-2004, 11:44 PM
The joints are not the problem, it is finding the axles that are the issue. You can't get just axles from VW. You need to buy a axle set. The "rebuilt" axles from world pac or IMC are not in the best of shape. I am not going to trust that spending $49.95 on a "rebuilt axle" will get me through turn one of the first race of the season. I can get LOBRO joints all day long but LOBRO use to sell a complete axle set. They are not offering it anymore for the A2.

Jon

12-30-2004, 11:59 PM
1st

[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 09, 2005).]

VW16VRacer
01-01-2005, 03:54 PM
I work pretty closely with IMC and they do not have a listing for the NEW LOBRO axle sets. Are you telling me that this is what you can get for a A2 Golf? Or are they the rebuilt Chrown axles?

racer14itc
01-02-2005, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by VW16VRacer:
I am in search for front axles. I have been looking for the complete LOBRO axle kits that have all new parts. I have exhausted all my contacts, with out going to VW, to the tune of $500.00 each. If anybody has a source please let me know. As I said I am looking for new axles not reman units that have been to who knows where to be "rebuilt". I will shorten them as required.

A2 Golf 16V
100MM joints.

I guess I missed that part of the ITCS that permits shortening axles and driveshafts. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/cool.gif

MC


------------------
Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme/Tristram's Garage VW Scirocco
http://pages.prodigy.net/Scirocco14gp

spike
01-03-2005, 12:50 AM
What does shortening the axle do?

racer_tim
01-03-2005, 12:02 PM
Spike, when you run LOTS of negative camber, the angle of the hub makes the distance smaller, so the "standard" axles are a bit too "long" hence the shortned ones.

There normally is enough play in both of the CV joints, but if you've been breaking them, then go with the shorter units.

We don't have a problem them in Production, since you don't run as much negative camber with slicks.



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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

RSTPerformance
01-03-2005, 12:44 PM
VW16Vracer-

Who are you, what class do you run, and what region are you in?

How many other VW drivers are shortning their axles?

How do you go about shortening them?

How do you justify its legality?

Raymond

01-04-2005, 01:29 AM
2nd

[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 09, 2005).]

Bob Burns
01-04-2005, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by Marzracing:
...in the GT4 class, just look at the engine size for VW and the car, Humm? VW never made that combo!

If you are expecting the GT engine/chassis classifications to reflect reality, you are racing in the wrong category. In GT2-4, it is geneally the engine that receives the competition adjustments, not the chassis. The body is just a package to enclose the chassis. In order to keep people who have done a lot of engine development on older engines racing in GT, you see a lot of older engines classified with newer chassis (bodies). It keeps the manufacturers happy, too, because they can see late-model cars on the track.

That's why you see late-model Nissan Sentras with L16 engines and late-model Toyota Paseos and Corollas with 2TC engines. These combinations never happened in reality. Heck, look at the Mazda MX-3 in GT5. That car never came with an engine that small.

But, to get back to the topic at hand, I, too, would like to know where in the IT rules it says you can shorten drive axles.

Bob...

Greg Amy
01-04-2005, 02:53 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">...would like to know where in the IT rules it says you can shorten drive axles.</font>

Bottom line: it doesn't, thus to do so would be outright cheating.

Knestis
01-04-2005, 05:55 PM
EDIT - original silliness deleted, complaints deleted as well.

K



[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited January 10, 2005).]

Dave Zaslow
01-05-2005, 08:37 AM
Jon,

Is the issue the inner end of the driveshaft knocking through the trans seal?

Dave Z

Knestis
01-05-2005, 09:47 AM
The way it's been explained to me, people blame plunge overtravel for binding up the CV joints themselves.

K

Greg Amy
01-05-2005, 09:59 AM
It's most assuredly a concern; I discovered the problem back in the mid- to late-80s when I built my ITA Rabbit GTi. But, it's a "problem" that cannot be cured legally.

OK, so you have an axle binding problem when you lower the car below a certain level. The legal solution? Simple: don't lower your car that much! My current suspension's roll center drops like a rock under ground level when I lower it too much (starting WELL above the allowed 5 inches) and the car's handling goes funky; can I relocate the pickup points to compensate? Of course not! You have to work withing the design of your car and within the IT rules to find the best compromise.

To do anything else is CHEATING.

If you shorten your axles YOU ARE A CHEATER.

Capiche?

Turfer
01-05-2005, 09:19 PM
Stop being so up tight. You all have just assumed that he is talking about an IT car. He is not.

SCCA in the NW is on life support. Oregon region is a chin above water and NW Region is bobbing around the eyeballs. The other more friendly, rules decided by the drivers organiztion has classes extremely similar to IT.

He runs in Radial Sedan alongside IT.

So, before you all capitulate and hi-jack this into another 10 page thread, just look at his question and answer it if you can.

Rick

Knestis
01-05-2005, 09:53 PM
To be fair, Rick - it IS called improvedtouring.com after all.

How's stuff out there? Any interesting plans for the coming season?

K

Turfer
01-05-2005, 10:17 PM
Hi Kirk.

It just looked like another lemming landrush for the drop off.

Jon's story is just like any 16v Golf that will never be competitve within ITA. He just runs a couple of parallel classes. I know this well and sold mine a couple of years ago and have now been raicng CRX's with an Integra in the future.

With the ITA CRX: This season we will be heading down to a some SF Region events at Laguna, Sears, and Thunderhill. Mix in a little less ICSCC than last year.

I would seriously like to figure out reasonably priced shipping to head to ARRC.

We are also building a SPU CRX designed specifically to run enduros. Plans are to attend the Portland 8 hours and hopefully follow up with the 25 at Thill.

What do you have planned?

Rick--Who is sure Jon will be thrilled with his hijacked thread now. He paddocks with us and for fun we have nicknamed him HondaJon...and we are trying to get NASA to give him honorary H4 designation.

Knestis
01-06-2005, 12:02 AM
Some tweaks to the Golf - final drive and a real diff (if I can FIND one) - and major tweaks to the driver. I ordered a DL1 data acquisition system so I can do some serious work on my own mad skilz.

We're going to try to get a lottery draw for the 12 hours at Summit Point, do the VIR enduro this fall, assuming it happens, and mix in a few regionals, and two hillclimbs (including the new one in Alabama).

There's noise about a couple of tarmac rallies brewing in the NASA ESRC rallysport series. If they happen, I'd readjust my whole schedule to do them.

K

RSTPerformance
01-06-2005, 11:23 AM
Rick and 16VWRacer and I guess others...-

I havn't got all my answers http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif

Who are you, what class do you run, and what region are you in? Ok we got that answer, so we know you are not cheating!!!

How many other VW drivers are shortning their axles? I have herd many other people talk about doing this, so I wonder how many fully prepped IT cars run these.

How do you go about shortening them? I am just wondering how this is done... not that I could ever afford it or would ever do it, or even need to do it, but I just want to expand my knowledge base cause I don't get it...

How do you justify its legality? For those IT drivers who do run IT whats your justification? Cost savings for not having to constantly replace Axles?

Raymond

racer_tim
01-06-2005, 04:10 PM
Just run Stu's

http://www.bsiracing.com/bsi_products.asp



------------------
Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

Turfer
01-06-2005, 04:12 PM
Raymond,

I don't know the answer to how many IT VW's are shortening their axles. It is said to be needed to avoid puncturing the trans seal and in some cases actually breaking the axle.

Considering that shortened axles are sold by two of the main VW race prep shops on the right coast, I suspect that you'll find a bunch if you go a searching.

I never had or ran shortened axles even though I was warned of the damage I would see. I ran my car at many differing ride heights, some very low(as Greg said it never worked well), and never punctured the seal or broke an axle/CV. Maybe I got lucky. They were just remans and before I sold the car in '01, they had approx 44 race weeeknds or around 100 hours.

As far as how. The shortening, as I understand it, takes place at the most inner end of the axle that can come into contact with the trans seal.

Rick

VW16VRacer
01-07-2005, 12:37 AM
Well I had a long reply to all the questions on this thread but must of been in such a haste, I put in the wrong pass word and it erased it so here is the short version:

Sorry I started such a fire storm.

There are a number of builders selling "shortened" axles on both coasts, call, write, e-mail, hell send up smoke signals on the legality of them. I use them legaly so I do not damage the flange cap seals.

I race ICSCC here in the Pacific NW. It is a spin off of SCCA a lot like NASA.

My rule book is found at: http://www.icscc.com/rules/Cr2004.pdf
Start at 1402 for Production
Start at 1310 for Radial Sedan

As Rick pointed out SCCA IT is almost non-exsistant here where ICSCC (confrence) has 34 ITA cars (SCCA legal ITA) and 8 of them ran all 12 races last year.

LOBRO/GKN does not sell aftermarket axle sets in the USA for the A2. This information comes from LOBRO/GKN Gmbh.

Lastly I wasn't expecting to get the rise I did from this. Please use some judgement before you start making assumption. Just because somebody is running something different (including rules) doesn't mean we can't all learn from each other to help put the VW back in front of the Honda's

Rick: as for the "HondaJon" nick name, stick it in the tail pipe of that red roach you drive, I will never cross over to the dark side of the rising sun...unless a killer deal coes on a 1.8 Miata, but that is Mazda, owned by Ford, so it is OK in my world.

Jon

01-07-2005, 02:08 AM
3rd

[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 09, 2005).]

Greg Amy
01-07-2005, 10:14 AM
Hey, look, it's an IT board. Since you didn't specify, assuming that you're describing an IT car is the only logical thing to do (duh).

Mea culpa.

1st.

[This message has been edited by GregAmy (edited January 10, 2005).]

01-07-2005, 01:22 PM
4th

[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 09, 2005).]

racer_tim
01-07-2005, 01:38 PM
Mont, This site is for a narrow set of SCCA racer's called IT. Sports Racers have their own web site, GT people have one, Production the same, etc.

With what your've done in the past with drag racing, and high horse power VW's, doesn't really fit in with the IT crowd. Maybe it's a drag racing vs. road racing thing, I don't know. I'm not that familiar with the drag racing rules, but I have to assume, like SCCA, that their is some self-policing between competitors. Tech inspectors are mainly there for safety items, and usually don't have the in-depth knowledge of individual car marks.

Yes, there are some SCCA IT racers that cheat, but most are out there happy to work within the rules, and have fun.

The next level of performance and prep is in Production. http://www.coloradoscca.com/prodcar is the place to go and discuss the unique set of rules and restrictions that us Production racers go through.

After that, it's GT. Full tube frame cars, and less restrictions. I don't have that web site right off the top of my head, but could assist in locating it if you need.

Click on my profile, and get my e-mail address.

Sorry that you've gotten the responses that you did.



------------------
Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

01-07-2005, 10:20 PM
5th

[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 09, 2005).]

Greg Amy
01-07-2005, 10:41 PM
2nd.

[This message has been edited by GregAmy (edited January 10, 2005).]

01-07-2005, 11:14 PM
6th

[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 09, 2005).]

Greg Amy
01-07-2005, 11:21 PM
3rd.

(Someone's going to see this a year from now and wonder what the hell...?)

[This message has been edited by GregAmy (edited January 10, 2005).]

VW16VRacer
01-07-2005, 11:30 PM
OK ENOUGH OF THIS!

Greg you are right I should of been more clear on that point. I figured that our (confrence) rules were close to IT rules that this wouldn't been such an issue. For that I am sorry. Move the battery and install a factory wire harness and my car is IT legal. Not the issue but still...
I also agree with Greg's statement whole-heartly that it is not our job to cheat. It is our job to, just as he said, build legal cars and self police. If we are all so worried about the legality of shortened axles then I will e-mail Stu and get the skinny on this and settle this once and for all. But lets not degrade ourselves on this fourm, lets work together. Damm I sound like my father.....

Marz, as for you, welcome to this fourm, please try and post as little as possible.

Jon

01-07-2005, 11:34 PM
7th




[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 09, 2005).]

01-07-2005, 11:43 PM
8th

[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 09, 2005).]

JLawton
01-09-2005, 06:08 PM
Marz,
What's your name?? I know you are new to the forum but putting a name with the posts might help.......... You'll also notice there are a LOT of discussions about rules and cheating. Making comments like yours will ALWAYS bring an emotional response from this board

------------------
Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi

Knestis
01-09-2005, 06:42 PM
EDIT - original silliness deleted, complaints deleted as well.

K

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited January 10, 2005).]

01-09-2005, 07:52 PM
o

[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 10, 2005).]

Willie G
01-09-2005, 10:42 PM
First make sure you use GTI axles with 100mm inner joints not the BSI 90mm good engine mounts and stay off the curbing this should cure the problem.

Turfer
01-10-2005, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by Marzracing:
[B] Remember the guy in the northwest saying that ITA is all but gone.[B]

ITA is not gone in the NW. Sorry if it sounded that way. It is plenty healthy.

It is the two SCCA regions in the NW that lack any competition. The two regions combined for 14 entries over a 17 race schedule at 3 tracks.

Conference on the other hand, had 139 entries over 12 races at 4 tracks. For us to play with any quality SCCA ITA cars we have to head down to the Bay area.

Rick

01-10-2005, 04:43 AM
Thanks for your understanding, back to what this thread was meant for.

Mont

[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 10, 2005).]

Knestis
01-10-2005, 10:27 AM
Sorry, Mont - your website doesn't have an email listed and it was the weekend. I tried.

I also presumed that, in this day and age, someone who wasn't represented as a real, live person on a 'net BB was doing so because that was his/her desire.

We can only work with what we have in this medium.

K

EDIT - deleted my criticisms of the original outlaw posts. I hope the offenders didn't get into the online banking or order from any e-stores, Mont. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited January 10, 2005).]

01-10-2005, 12:47 PM
Mont

[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 10, 2005).]