starting problem

[golfracer]

Please help

I have a scirocco that I cannot get to start. At first I thought it was a fuel pump but then I jumped the relay and then the pump worked fine but the car still would not start. Then I figured it was the relay, I bought two new ones, and it still did not work. I have traced all of the wiring connections to their origins and all the wiring seems to be good. I am totally stuck. The fuel pump does run for a few seconds when I turn the ignition key halfway and then it stop. The car will not fire as it seems that I have no spark to the spark plugs. I have replaced plug wires, coil, fuel regulator, fuel unit. I am just totally lost, I do not know where to look. If anyone has any suggestions please help.

[Campbell]

Have you checked for spark? I bet your timing belt is broken or stripped. The pistons will turn due to the starter but the timing shaft won't. good luck

[Bill Miller]

You need to confirm if you're getting any spark or not. If not, there are several reasons why. I'd suggest following the troubleshooting guidelines in the Bentley. Easy enough to tell if the timing belt is shot, just pull the dizzy cap and crank the motor. I bought one of those in-line lights for testing spark. Goes between the plug and the plug wire. I think it was like $3 at Walmart.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[golfracer]

I have no spark, thought i indicated that before. Timing belt is good, timing is all lined up, both cam timing and ignition timing. Mechanically the motor is perfect and right, the problem is with the wiring somewhere I know that for a fact. I just have run out of places to look. I have new wires, plugs, coil, ignition module. Please help with any ideas

[tschwenke]

So, did you check for 12V and a good ground at the ignition module, ECU and Coil?

Fuel pump running and stopping is fine. If you have no Tach signal going to the fuel pump relay (IE, the car is not started) the pump will shut off. That is a safety feature.

[golfracer]

The coil is not grounded, nor should it be as the wireing charts show no ground to the coil, the ignition module is grounded, and has power, and I have replaced the module as well. There is no computer, as all the computer does is modulate the o2 sensor and this is a race car so the computer has never been active.

[Bill Miller]

Actually, the K-Jet box controls the frequency valve, based on input from the O2 sensor.

Have you checked the X-relay? Not sure that's the cause of your problem, but I know the car won't run w/o it. I'll check my Bentley when I get home and post what I find.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Greg Amy]

You guys are getting far too complex. The gent's problem, as described, is no sparky, one of the three key necessary items for the "voom , voom" noise (the other two being compression and fuel).

OK, GolfRacer, first off, what year is the car? What engine? Ju gots points or electronic ignition? Ju gots the later model engine with detonation sensor?

Ju gots a Bentley manual for your car? If not, get thee to eBay and order one. Now. Worth its weight.

The fuel pump is SUPPOSED to run a few seconds on initial key, then it shuts off. After that it runs only when the engine is running, based on a tach signal. Bentley 101.

OK, let's assume you don't have a '75 or so, and you have electronic ignition. Do you have 12 volts at the coil when the key is on? Gots to have that. No 12 volts? That's your problem; open the Bentley, follow the wiring diagram and find out why you don't got no 12 volts at the coil. The Internet is no place to have folks help you troubleshoot electrical probs.

Gots 12 volts at the coil? Good! Now, do you have a good coil? Dunno? Are you getting spark out of the coil lead? No? Is the coil field circuit being dropped? Can you BRIEFLY connect a ground wire to the OPPOSITE terminal of the coil and get spark out the lead? If yes, the problem is in your Hall effect system/distributor (which grounds your coil. If no, you have a bad coil. Find, beg, borrow a know good coil and try it again.

Coil good? Good! Getting spark out the coil lead? No? Got another coil lead you can try?

Not a bad coil lead? Good! Getting spark out the coil lead? Good! Getting spark out a spark plug lead? No? Same on all four? Yes? Bad cap and/or rotor, replace and retry. Not the same on all four? Got a bad spark plug wire, replace them.

All this confusing? Good! No, I mean bad! I mean, aw, whatever...

[golfracer]

gregamy,

thank you for picking up what i have been putting down....


I do have a the bently manual, and I do have spark at the coil and to the coil wire to the top of the distributor, I believe my problem lies within the hall unit, as the cap and rotor are new, bsi rebuilt distributor about 5 races ago. Thanks for your input.

[racer_tim]

Golfracr, I had that same problem years ago on my Rabbit. Rebuilt the entire engine and got a rebuilt distributor. Turns out, there was a small splice on one of the 28 gauge wires in the hall unit, and nadda, nothing.

Ever since, I carry a spare distributor with me all the time. For a VW to fail with that one small wire, and with everything that is done correctly on a VW, is very strange.



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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[Greg Amy]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">...I do have spark at the coil and to the coil wire to the top of the distributor...</font>

Hold it right there, Pard: you say you *are* getting spark out the top of the coil? If so, yer problem ain't the Hall Effect system. If Mr. Sparky is getting out of the coil, but not inta the spark plugs, the problem is in the highway between that there coil wire and the spark plug. I'd be a-checkin' the coil lead wire, cap, rotor, spark plug leads, and the spark plugs...

[racer14itc]

I hate to admit this, but I once forgot to put the rotor back in...took me an hour to figure out why the car wouldn't start.
http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/redface.gif

Doh!

MC

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Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Airborn Coatings/The Shop VW
Scirocco
Zephyr Race Coaching and Consulting
http://pages.prodigy.net/Scirocco14gp

[This message has been edited by racer14itc (edited November 16, 2004).]

[JohnRW]

Originally posted by racer14itc:
...but I once forgot to put the rotor back in...


Illegal lightening. IIDSYC, YC't.

[Team Rocket]

Hey, I couldn't get my car started at the track one day, and it turned out to be a ground wire issue. It was one of the ground wires that are usually put on the water outlet on the head had broken off. It was the ground wire for the distributor.

Just another thing to check!

Jim