1.7 scirocco trans

[golfracer]

I was looking in the GCR and it shows that the 1.7 scirocco that is moving to ITC did come with the closer ratio gear box. I had talked to a few VW racers and they had told me that was wrong, while I had also talked to some VW mechanics and they told me that some 83, 84 1.7s DID come with the closer ratio gear box. Do you guys have any imput on this. I building one of these cars and I want to make sure I am right on this.

Thanks

Ed

[racer_tim]

Here is a chart that I found

http://www.nwlink.com/~vdb/vw/Transmission...on/Tranny_Specs (http://www.nwlink.com/~vdb/vw/Transmission/Tranny_Specs)

Not sure how acurate it is



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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[Greg Amy]

Ed, from my experience with these cars (I've been a VW driver for decades) the only Scirocco that came with the close-ratio box was the 1.8-equipped one. In fact, I cannot think of *any* A1, S1 or S2 non-1.8 liter V-dub that came with the close-ratio box.

I recommend not trusitng the GCR as your definitive source of what equipmnent you're allowed to run; there's just too much info out there and you'll get tossed. Instead, do your homework and see if some oddball car (like maybe the CA-only Scirocco GT or S) came with the boxes before you try the ole one-two. - GA

[Bill Miller]

Ed,

Greg's correct, the only ones that came w/ the close-ratio (FK, 4K, or 2H) boxes were the 1.8's. Also, there were no 1.7 S2's in '84.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Eric Parham]

Scirocco IIs never came with the FK ("close-ratio", 3.89 r&p, 0.91 5th) in the US (only early production 83 GTIs did). Late production 83 "Wolfsburg" Sciroccos came with 1.8L and 2H ("close", 3.94, 0.91), while the base model 83 Sciroccos had 1.7L and FN ("wide", 3.89, 0.71).

Some early production 84 model year Scirocco GLs did come with 1.7L engines (only in the US/CA). These early production 84 m.y. cars had the small gas tank and full spare tire well just like the 83s, but also had two front wipers (instead of just one as in 83).

As mid-year 84 changes, the larger fuel tank/mini-spare (and probably larger spoiler) was added and the 1.7L was completely dropped. BTW, any car with the big tank/mini-spare has added structural metal -- read "weight" -- in the rear, and probably cannot make weight if run as a 1.7L. That's why I always had to ballast my 83 Wolfsburg 1.8L so much!

Anyway, AFAIK, all 84 model year (production starting about 8/83) came with the 4K box (3.94 r&p, 0.89 5th). The FN actually ceased production by about 8/83. 85 and up 8V all got the 9A box (3.67 r&p, 0.89 5th).

Ok, now that my knowledge is recorded for posterity, I can finally forget all that and move on to my A3 Golf http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

FS: Slightly used 1983 Sciroccos (2, lightest year). Only raced on weekends (and Fridays at Lime Rock) http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif Best offer or trade for well-prepped Golf...

[This message has been edited by Eric Parham (edited September 14, 2004).]

[Greg Amy]

Eric, some confusion on my part. You ade the following two statement:

>>> Some early production 84 model year Scirocco GLs did come with 1.7L engines

>>> AFAIK, all 84 model year (production starting about 8/83) came with the 4K box (3.94 r&p, 0.89 5th).

I would conclude from this that there was a limited number of cars that came with the 1.7L engine *and* the 4K box. If so, then that 4K would be legal for IT.

Is this what you meant to post? If so, are you absolutely certain of this and is it possible to provde documentation of that to these guys?

GA



[This message has been edited by grega (edited September 15, 2004).]

[Eric Parham]

To clarify, I do think that some 84 m.y. Scirocco IIs came with a 1.7L EN and a 4K transaxle. I don't have one that I can look at, though.

Other than a paper build label from the trunk showing both "EN" and "4K", I believe it may also be deducible from the early 84 m.y. owner's manual (the one published around 8/83).

I don't have a copy of the early 84 manual, but if someone else does, I bet that a comparison of the engine break-in speeds with those of the late 83 m.y. manual (published 3/83, page 6, which I do have) will support the presence of the 4K gearbox with the 1715cc engine.

Edit: BTW, the owner's manual publication date is usually on the outside of the back cover.


Originally posted by grega:

I would conclude from this that there was a limited number of cars that came with the 1.7L engine *and* the 4K box. If so, then that 4K would be legal for IT.

Is this what you meant to post? If so, are you absolutely certain of this and is it possible to provde documentation of that to these guys?

GA
[/B]


[This message has been edited by Eric Parham (edited September 15, 2004).]

[theenico]

Here's a link to my favorite ratio/code chart. So far it has proved to be extremely accurate. Click the link and then at the bottom of the page click on "gears"

http://scirocco.org/

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Nico

[This message has been edited by theenico (edited September 16, 2004).]

[golfracer]

Eric and others,

this is exactly what some local vw mechanics were talking about. I called SCCA a while back and I was told that someone had submitted the documentation for this and this is why the close ratio box is now on the spec line for 1.7s.

Ed

[Bill Miller]

I guess that was like some of the late 8v SII's that came w/ the HT engine (10:1, hydraulic lifters). Wasn't that dissallowed? Certainly an unfair advantage for the SII 1.7 Sciroccos, over the SI, and Rabbit 1.7 cars.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Greg Amy]

Bill, I cannot confirm or deny the possibility that a higher compression engine or close-ratio box was available in the 1.7s for the (now) ITB Sciroccos. I've personally never seen nor heard of it, and I was a dealership PArts Manager at the time these cars were new. Hell, you know as well as I how Volkswagen loved to mix-and-match components on production vehicles, especially when faced with leftover or reduced stock during model changovers (like my '84 Rabbit GTi that had several early-Golf interior trim and pieces).

However, strictly and technically speaking, if VW truly did deliver a higher-compression engine and/or close-ratio box on the 1.7L Sciroccos, then it's legal in Improved Touring. Period. The results of this will be one of two things:

- Competitors cannot provide factory-certified proof that it was available, thus they cannot run it, or
- Competitors will provide factory-certified proof, and it will be legal in ITB, and
- This will need to be addressed via errors and omissions, because I personally think that this was not a consideration or known information when the car was moved to ITB.

Regardless, provide the proof and you've found a quite attractive niche...

[Bill Miller]

Greg,

It wasn't the 1.7 cars that came w/ the high-comp. motor, it was the late 8v 1.8 cars ('88 I believe). It was the end of the line for the Sciroccos, and most of the cars were already 1.8 16v cars. I don't know how many '88 1.8 8v Sciroccos were made, but it's my understanding that at least 'some' of these cars came w/ the HT (or RD???) engine in them. It was a 10:1 hydraulic lifter motor (out of the Golfs). I know it was listed on the spec line in the '00 and '01 GCRs, but it was removed in the '02 version. I remember reading in FasTrack that it was no longer going to be allowed, but I don't remember the specifics.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Eric Parham]

The Scirocco II has always had two main problems:

1) Body repair parts.

2) Vested interests.

I believe that the second may become moot in the presence of competition adjustments. Progress can be a good thing.

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Eric Parham:
The Scirocco II has always had two main problems:

1) Body repair parts.

2) Vested interests.

I believe that the second may become moot in the presence of competition adjustments. Progress can be a good thing.




Eric,

Please elaborate. I know the SI and SII were both made for 6 years, but I would think that there were more SII's out there. I'm really curious to hear about the 'vested interest'.


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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608