Books on Driving a Front Wheel Drive

[JLawton]

Are there any good books out there on how to drive a front wheel drive? Or past articles?

[racer_tim]

1 suggestion. Never LIFT in a corner.

hehehehe



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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit (Bent)
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[racer14itc]

The book "Going Faster: Mastering the Art of Race Driving" written by Carlos Lopez of the Skip Barber School has some information on driving FWD cars. Terry Earwood provides some of the info in the sections on FWD.

Not a ton of info, but what's there I've found helpful to me.

MC
#14 GP BSI Racing/Airborn Coatings/The Shop VW Scirocco

[Dave Zaslow]

"The Front-Wheel Driving High-Performance Advantage" by Jack Doo, 1988, Motorbooks International

With many grains of salt....

Dave Zaslow

[Tom Blaney]

The book written by Ayrton Senna "Ayrton Senna's Principles of Race Driving"
is the best book for any aspiring racer to read. It provides both obvious and subtle directions on how to really go fast. Too bad he never lasted.

[ITSRX7]

Lemme see...in an ITB car at LRP...here you go:

Brake hard for Big Bend, then floor it...keep it down...keep it down...

Then you're at Big Bend again!

http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region #188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com
http://www.flatout-motorsports.com/images/200_06_checkered.jpg

[JLawton]

Andy, are there any sections of this site you DON'T read??? Just what I need, wise guy advice from a rear wheel drive guy!! (in case you were wondering, it looks like I have hooked into a great little ITB car, to be reveiled at NHIS in April, I CAN'T WAIT!!!)

[ITSRX7]

Originally posted by JLawton:
Andy, are there any sections of this site you DON'T read???

Not when you're on the ITAC!

Can't wait to see it. Bring it to our shop for some pre-season corner weighting if you want - free of charge!

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region #188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com
http://www.flatout-motorsports.com/images/200_06_checkered.jpg

[RSTPerformance]

Ok I am nervouse, Flat Out boys helping an ITB car... http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif

OK here is better advice!!! In ITB,

Lime Rock:

Brake hard for Big Bend, ease on the throtle
Brake hard for left Hander, ease on the throtle
Brake hard for Uphill, ease on the throtle
Brake hard for West bend, ease on the throtle
Brake hard for Downhill, ease on the throtle

NHIS:

Just simply Brake hard everywhere!!!

http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

Looking forward to another ITB car!!! These new Golfs seem to be the "hot ticket."

Is it a Golf?

Raymond Blethen


------------------
http://rstperformance.bizland.com/rstsignature.jpg
RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com (http://www.rstperformance.com)
1st and 2nd 2003 ITB NARRC Championship
1st and 6th 2003 ITB NERRC Championship
3rd 2003 ITB ARRC Sprint Race
4th 2003 ITB ARRC Endoro
1st 2003 AS NERRC and NARRC Championships

[joeg]

Back to the question--Doo's book covered AWD too, may also be out of print. "Race Car Development" by Paul Vanvalkulberg (sic) also has a chapter devoted to it.

Frankly, there are no good treatises on it and that is acknowledged by PV because he claims there is really no documented research on it.

However, with all the modern day FWD racing, a good book is long overdue

[ITSRX7]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance:
Brake hard for Downhill, ease on the throtle


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You MIGHT have to brake for the downhill in a B car!!! NOT!

Seriously, can't wait to see you out there. At least you will be in the same run-group!

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region #188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com
http://www.flatout-motorsports.com/images/200_06_checkered.jpg

[JLawton]

Andy, Ray,
You guys crack me up! I'm glad I'm staying in IT, where else can I get this of abuse, on and off the track!!

Brakes!!! I don't need no stinkin brakes!! (I just need to learn how to drive a FWD!!)

[John Herman]

While I can't recommend any books, I can share some advice (realize you get what you paid for http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif). The biggest thing to keep in mind is the front tires are doing EVERYTHING. Therefore, you will want to be very smooth with everything, because the front tires will not have much of a chance to recover if you make mistakes. Depending on the car, your apexes will need to be shifted earlier or later depending on the ability of your car to accelerate. I tend to later apex the corners so the car is as straight as possible when I accelerate (I can spin my inside tire in some corners, even with a limited slip.) Resist the urge to crank in more steering when you realize you've cooked a corner as this will generate even more heat in the front. Abruptly lifting in this situation can help, because it will shift weight to the fronts and can provide more grip. This procedure will want to make the car oversteer, so be careful. If the car starts to "come around", mash the throttle. This will either, pull the front back where it needs to be, or break the front tires loose which will cause the car to go back to an understeering condition. This procedure is very effective in the rain. Watch for off camber sections of corners, as a FWD will have A LOT of trouble negotiating them, esspecially under acceleration. Sometimes, you need to change your line so the outside tires are on a "flat" section of track. If you lock up the fronts under braking, realize you may have just stalled the engine if the clutch wasn't pushed in. This is more common in the rain. If this is the case, your handling will be non existant. Releasing the brakes may allow the engine to restart, but in the rain there may not be enough friction between the tires and road. You'll definately need to push in the clutch under those conditions and restart using the key. You'll hear the term "trail braking" to help the car rotate when you turn into the corner. I use the term for "any time you're braking and turning the front wheels." Under moderate/heavy braking, you will be shifting a lot of weight to the front tires. Under the right(wrong) circumstances, the outside rear tire will be underloaded when a corner is started. This makes the car very suseptable to a spin. It is very apparent when entering a fast, decreasing radius corner. My technique is to staighten out the beginning of the corner to do your braking (such as braking across the track), then attack the remainder of the corner so you can start accelerating sooner. Try to modulate the throttle over sections where the track drops away quickly or track repairs have lowered the friction coefficient. This avoids needless wheelspin and unwanted heat in the fronts. Speaking of track repairs. Some are done poorly and create a large input into the car when you transition onto them. Concrete patches in the high wear area of corners are the most suseptable. If the car hits what feels like a bump when you go over the transition, then immediately starts to understeer, watch the car setup. It could be the outside front shock/strut may be bottoming out. I think this is more likely to happen on a FWD because of all the weight (65% on my car) being carried on the front along with the required lowering which happens on race cars. Be VERY careful on the first lap(s) of a race in the cold. The rears will take longer to come up to temp, if they ever do. The car will want to oversteer more during this transition period. I rotate new tires into the mix by starting them on the rear and then moving them to the front when the fronts wear out. I stopped the practice of putting "old" tires on the rear, because the car tended to be an oversteering nightmare. One racer I know lost 2 seconds a lap at Gingerman (1:39 vs. 1:37 normal lap times)when he tried to use up some old tires on the rear. Next day he put new tires on the rear and sat on the pole with a 1:36. Depending on the track/curbing layout, some tracks reward the technique of jumping the curb. Your inside front tire will be lightly loaded at near full droop, and the inside rear tire will be even more lightly loaded, so bouncing up onto some curbs is not even noticeable. Be careful under downshifts, because these could upset the car if not done smoothly. Remeber from above, the fronts are doing everything. If you get the front sliding and bouncing (however slightly) because of a poor downshift, it will be more difficult to negotiate the coming corner, and get the front end settled down. Well...this should give enough stuff to think about. Hope it helps.

[joeg]

John--Nice (and informative) post--especially the advice on rear tires...how true...

[racer_tim]

It also depends opun what find of front diff you have. Open, LSD, or locked. Each (or at least the locked) requires it's own unique driving style.

I drive a locker since it was cheaper than a LSD. I do now have one, but haven't had the opportunity to try it yet. I'm not looking forward to teething through all of the suspension changes though.



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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit (Bent)
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[joeg]

Having driven open, phantom grip and Quaife diffs all in the same season (same car, tires,etc.), there are no radical differences requiring radical changes.

By far, the Quaife will show anyone improved lap times and actually reduces steering effort, but other than the steering input/effort difference ( and the tendency not to overheat tires), I can't notice big differences. Welded diffs in the rain are a whole different kettle of fish.

Phantom is quite close to open.

[RSTPerformance]

In the Audi's this past season we ran 1 car with a quaiffe and one without. The car with it was much different to drive at Lime Rock, however it was not much different at NHIS (other than 2 seconds a lap faster http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif ).

Raymond

[HOOSER 99]

So thats why I suck so bad at LRP---not enough braking.

Happy holidays

jerry monaghan

Holiday cooking no-no---while using redline, royal purple, and amsoil to baste your turkey seems like a good idea (lowfat and all that) having a kitchen that smells like an exploded top fuel motor and a turkey that looks like George Clinton probably won't make Martha Stewart's holiday wishlist.

innfunkwetrust

[reeceracing]

Ray
You are doing to much braking,for a FWD.You need to used the left foot braking technique.
And forget about braking in WEST BENT and the DOWN HILL,in west bent you lift and turn in at full throttle all the way to the down hill,and BIG BENT is your braking point,at brake marker 2 or 1,depending who is on your back.Trust me, this technique give me 4 poles

[RSTPerformance]

reeceracing-

My advice was for the competition, not me http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

but in reality yes I would brake past the #1 marker through the apex of the turn if pushing very hard...

West bend... sometimes you need the brakes to settle the car and get it to turn in especially if it isn't set up 100%. The Audi's are a bit faster than the VW going into west bend, I think that is the 5 cyl. doesn't help much as you can't go quite fast enough to get a nose under the comp and you loose that momentum hitting the brakes...

Downhill, no need to hit the brakes, unless car is not handling 90% or better... you don't even need to lift if it is set up 100%.

as far as left foot braking... well aware of the technique but I am not convinced it is the faster way around the race track... in an Audi anyway... the llllooonnnggg (long) wheelbase keeps the car from rotating so I do not see any advantage... if you can get the car to rotate you are scrubbing lots of speed.

Does anyone actually left foor brake??? if so what tracks, what turns and (no offence) but how close are you to the front??? Very curiose as to how many "front runners" are using this technique...

Raymond Blethen

------------------
http://rstperformance.bizland.com/rstsignature.jpg
RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com (http://www.rstperformance.com)
1st and 2nd 2003 ITB NARRC Championship
1st and 6th 2003 ITB NERRC Championship
3rd 2003 ITB ARRC Sprint Race
4th 2003 ITB ARRC Endoro
1st 2003 AS NERRC and NARRC Championships

[Bildon]

>> Does anyone actually left foor brake???

Absolutely! Without revealing any of my secrets http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/cool.gif I can say that there are a few corners out there where a left foot on the brake while leaving the right foot planted on the floor has made ALL the difference in getting those pole position lap times in.

A corner where you normally would do a "jesus" lift (LRP?) or one in which you need to settle the chassis (a quick left right combo for example)

There are 2 reason I find this beneficial...no matter how smoothly you release off the gas and roll back on...it takes time! And no matter how smoothly this is done, it upsets the balance of the car.

Left foot braking (where possible) is key.


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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport (http://www.bildon.com)
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2003 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##

[OTLimit]

I think left-foot braking technique is the only way Chris knows how to drive. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif



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Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers

[Bildon]

hmmm and by the way... a "Pole position Lap time" does not always a pole position make! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/redface.gif

Didn't sound so pompous until I read it later http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

- Bill

[RSTPerformance]

Interesting... do you hqave a brake bias??? I am now wondering how much of an effect that has...

Thanks for the input... I am dreaming of left foot braking and giong faster in the Audi's!!!

Raymond

[Greg Gauper]

Many, many, many moons ago, Don Knowles wrote an excellent article in Sports Car about left foot braking, with some specifics on how to use it for FWD. Don was/is one of the best and won a couple National Championships in SS in the 70's driving Saabs. A copy of the article might still be floating around....circa late 70's early 80's.

At the same token, the Archer brothers are quoted in the FWD book mentioned earlier in this thread; when asked by a well known hot shoe "how did you blow by me so fast?" they replied "easy....you were on the brakes and we weren't!" or words to that effect i.e. no-foot braking for some people is faster than left foot braking........

[RSTPerformance]

"At the same token, the Archer brothers are quoted in the FWD book mentioned earlier in this thread; when asked by a well known hot shoe "how did you blow by me so fast?" they replied "easy....you were on the brakes and we weren't!" or words to that effect i.e. no-foot braking for some people is faster than left foot braking........ "


Another great point... That is why I asked where do peple left foot brake... My thoughts are that the left hander at Lime Rock is the only place in NE where people left foot brake.

Raymond

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...Don Knowles wrote an excellent article in Sports Car...</font>

Awesome memory, Greg! I think I may still have that clipping, gotta go looking for it in the attic now...

[Eric Parham]

While I often use either foot for the brake, I will define "left foot braking" as applying some braking with one foot while maintaining full throttle with the other.

Raymond, in the Scirocco, I would NEVER left foot brake in the Left Hander at Lime Rock as that would tend to get the car loose (which it usually is already in the Left). I have occasionally left foot braked entering West Bend, and even rarely after turn-in but before compression for the Climbing Turn (Uphill) when tires were almost shot.

IMHO, Lime Rock doesn't have any corners where left foot braking will be faster than a different set-up, but it's a good "tool" to have in the bag anyway. Same for NHIS.

As Bill mentioned, one time when left foot braking CAN help is in settling the car for a quick left/right (or right/left) jog in the middle of a fairly straight section, or sometimes during odd elevation changes.

I have found use for it at the chicane at the end of the uphill straight at Watkins Glen, but now manage to take the entry flat out and slide to scrub speed rather than brake in the middle (after getting past the right and just angling the car left).

I used to run into such instances autocrossing and sometimes see the situation ice racing, but really don't find the "need" for it at our local New England tracks.