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D_Bat
04-29-2003, 12:42 AM
Hey hey. i am looking forward to buying this 1986 or so VW Jetta Coupe and although it has some rust around the windows I think it would be a great personal race car for ITB. the guy is selling it for 200 dollars and it has no sun roof, run, but needs a new clutch. so that's that on the car. It does have A/C that does run so i can get some money for that to fund for the car.

I am wondering what I should do to get it to a semi/low competitive level car. I am not looking to be 1st or even in the middle. I dont care if I get last as long as I am having fun driving out there. So what should I do to at least be ahead of ONE car out there. hehe. That's all I ask.

I know the suspension will be gone so that has to be done, and it is essential. New springs, shocks, bushings, and all that. I don't know what kind of compression it is but it is a 8v, 1.8l. I will get the engine code later to see. I used to own a 86 jetta Gl and it was my first baby and I did all my own work so if yall start talking and all I will be able to understand.

Ya. Its gunna be a cheap car. Do you guys think I can get away with spending 2000 dollars on it for a total of 2200 dollars with buying the car?? I know lots of places where i can get used parts and some sorta new parts for cheap so I think it might be able to happen, pass that one or two cars I mean. Thanx.

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1998 VW Jetta GLX
Past Away - 1986 VW Jetta GL

BEM
04-29-2003, 07:28 AM
You are better off to take the $2200 and find a car already built up, that has been raced. I tired to do the same thing you are suggesting with a 1973 BMW 2002, and ended up spending a fortune on a car that never saw the track.

D_Bat
04-29-2003, 08:28 AM
Ya really think it can't be done to well?? I have worked on VWs for a few years now and they aren't to hard to work on, well..... the 4 cylinders aren't at least and I have a few people around me that race the same class around me and I have one friend to help me work on the car. I know I will prolly spend more than 2200, prolly more like 4000 because I will be like....... "Hey, 30 dollars more for a performance this that will help, OK!!!!!" and then "Why not spend the extra 200 to get that while the block is taken apart" heh. Ya. That will happen but isn't the BMW a little different??? Aren't they more expensive in general for parts and other such. I dun really know.

Also. I really really wanna make a car and have fun with it. If I get a premade car I can't "explore" the whole car. I haven't actually taken a whole car apart or anything yet but I have worked on engines, trannies and other such things for VWs. I dunno. I am going to try and do the most stuff I can at home without taking it to the shop and what not, it all depends on what the rules are and what actually needs to be done to the car to get it to be a track reliable 2nd to last place car. Hehe. I will start looking at premade cars though. Most I have seen cost up around 4000 though and some are just 800 or so for the motor. Crazy stuff.

Knestis
04-29-2003, 09:12 AM
Reality check (from someone who tried to do what you describe - twice)...

1. It will cost you WAY more to build your first car than to buy it, assuming equal quality parts.

2. The learning curve is so steep that it is very likely that you will do something wrong/illegal and will have to spend more money fixing it.

3. If $4000 seems crazy for an IT car with a log book, you better not spend any money at all until you have spent some time hanging out at races, to get a handle on what it really costs. If you CAN find a legal IT VW for $4000, that is about as cheap as it is ever going to get.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but there are some really unavoidable (and harsh) realities in this game. If you really want to build a race car, the best way to do that is to help someone do it with their money. If you want to race, the best way is not to build your first one.

Kirk

D_Bat
04-29-2003, 10:22 AM
I'm not looking to be crazy with the car. I know it is going to be at least a good year or two before I get the thing totally built for ITB and I still need to get all my liscences, take driving school, and get some more track time in because I don't have any at all. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif 4000 dollars doesn't sound crazy at all. I know that I could easily spend up around 20,000 dollars on the car but I don't want to be in the front of the pack nor do I want to be in the middle. I want to have fun, drive to drive, not to get first. The passion to drive I think is better than the passion to get first. If I get a good place then that is just a good side dish. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif Oh ya. I plan on trading parts for parts since I have access to a bunch of cheap parts, engines, bodys, and junk cars that I can get for real cheap. Like I said above, the car is being sold for 200 dollars. The guy has about 10 other water cooled VWs that I can pick at and then I have my friend up in ohio to help me make a roll cage, weld it in and all welding that I need or custom fabricating that I need.

Its prolly gunna be a good 2 years to 3 years that I will finally see IT-B. I dont know what other track races there are out there because of how new I am but along the way of making my car I am sure I will find some that I can enter to get more track time before I make it into IT.

Your not being harsh. Your just going by your judgement that you have seen from my posts not knowning what I know and what I know. Say what you want, any help is appreciated, even if I already know it. Its nice to know that people are reading this and trying to help.

Oh ya. I am just hoping to trade my garage full of parts for parts for this car and and then spend the 4k or so on the parts that I would abolutly need, and I know that since this will take longer I will have more money to spend on it. 4K is just from THIS summer. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif I think I have a good few grand in my garage.

Oh ya. Can't I basically use my stock block and all??

oh ya. idea just popped in my head. brakes. I totally forgot about brakes. Hehe. Can I get Raddo brakes and put it on there, the 11" fronts or is the illegal?? If so then I can just upgrade to the GTI/GLI front/rear discs.

I don;t know all the rules but are they that hard to follow if I'm not going all out on the car?? Stock ignition, stock fuel system, stock engine or maybe P&P.

Peace. Thanx again. Info = Good



------------------
1998 VW Jetta GLX
Past Away - 1986 VW Jetta GL

RSTPerformance
04-29-2003, 12:26 PM
I say go for it! I'm probably a lot like you where the satisfaction of building a project that works is as much of the fun as actually being on the track.

Advice #1
Get a rule book! we call it a GCR.
(General Competition Rules)

Advice #2
Strip the car, the entire interior. Purchase a seat, window net and belts. Then send it to someone to build you a legal IT role cage. (and seat mounts.) have them install the seat belts and window net. (Never be skimpy on safety!) This will probably cost between $800-$1200. When you get the car back take the time to put the interior back in the way you like it.
You now have a running car that has all the safety needs to race.

Advice # 3
Call someone like shine racing service or ground control and tell them you are on a limited budget.... about $1000 and you would like coil overs, cheap struts that will last a few races, camber plates, and if money is left a rear swaybar. I would think for 400 you got coil overs, another 200 you have some sheap struts, camber plates about 250 and the rear sway bar about 150.
You now have a car that runs, has a semi decent suspension that will get you around the track, in a safe car. all for about $2200.

Advice #4
take it slow do as much as you can on your own, ask questions and try to learn from others mistakes to make it cheaper for yourself.

Advice #5
You will be racing for last but if you buy stuff that is good from the begining (In my example the only thing you waist is 200 bucks for cheapo struts..... later spend 800 on adjustable ones) I have spent no more than 5000 on my car over 3 years and usually run in the top 4 or 5. At watkins glen I was only .7 off the short track record! and usually within 1 sec of first at lime rock and NHIS. (The track records are way faster at those tracks than a normal day.)

Advice #6
Figure out your cost per weekend to race before you jump head first into it and make sure you can afford it.
entry fees are usually about 200
gas is going to be at least 20
oil will be about 20
tires can be used for 100 or new for 800 you decide
towing gas
food
Then you need to ad the preventative maintanance things liek brakes, wheel bearings, rotors.
ect. ect. ect. it adds up quick!

Good luck on your new venture.

Stephen

RSTPerformance
04-29-2003, 12:29 PM
wow I forgot something!

Have you planned on buying drivers suit, helmet, gloves, shoes, fire extinguisher, and all those other safety things. This doesn't count as part of the cost of the car but it sure does count as part of the cost of racing http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

Stephen

RSTPerformance
04-29-2003, 12:30 PM
sorry double posted somehow!
Stephen

[This message has been edited by RSTPerformance (edited April 29, 2003).]

Greg Amy
04-29-2003, 12:38 PM
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Do you guys think I can get away with spending 2000 dollars on it for a total of 2200 dollars with buying the car?</font>

There's an ITB Rabbit GTi for sale in the New England Region PitTalk for only $3500. If I wasn't into a car now I'd jump on that instead...

GregA

D_Bat
04-29-2003, 03:17 PM
RST Performance. You hit it right in the bulls eye. I love working on my car and spending the time to make it nice. Along with that goes the hours and long nights of searching for the best equipment and lowest prices. Ya. half my time that I spend on my car is on the internet and in the papers looking for cheap equipment.

I looked into some used race hardware, suits, gloves, and all that and its going to be a few hundred there which is no problem. Those items can be bought sepretaly and would pose for a good birthday or christmas present. hehe. any ways.

I love shine racing. I have heard nothing but good from them and I think for 750 or soemthing like that when they had their old website up you could get a semi nice suspension but......... since this is a track only car then wouldn't I want to get some really nice 800lb or soemthing springs. Sorry of my number is off. I know the rear needs lighter too. But besides that it would move the price up a little. 1000 would be a nice number.

Up in ohio I have a friend that just bought a awesome welder and he can weld basically any metal from aluminum, tungston, steel and what not so I might over the summer see if I can get my friend down here with his truck to tow the car up there and have him weld me in a roll cage and all the safety things I need and if he can get rid of the small amount of rust around the window that it has.

Oh ya. I wanna be different and run with a Jetta Coupe. Call me a Jetta Junkie but I have had 2 already and this will be my 3rd. I'm 18 years old too. hehe. Ya. I'm a youngin.

I am going to go all out on the questions. Since I have a all VW junkyard out there I am going to be asking what I can take from what and put in here and there and what is the best way to set up this and that. Your going to be sick of me. muaaahaaahahaaaaa.

I guess and more realistic thing to look at would be around 4000 with trading and selling my old parts that I hae in my garage.

Brakes are fun too. I looked at them. I will probably spend a good 500 dollars to switch to rear discs, get propotioning valves, get all new vented ATE rotors, and some nice EBC Greenstuff pads or so or what ever you guys recomend. Braking power is just as important as going power. Gotta love the red painted rear drums on a dropped Honda. Sorry. had to add that in.

I didn't know entry fees were that expensive. 200 dollars!!! wow. that's some crazy stuff.

Thanx again. Sorry to make all my posts so long. peace.

------------------
1998 VW Jetta GLX
Past Away - 1986 VW Jetta GL

Bill Miller
04-29-2003, 06:39 PM
I'll take the opportunity for some shameless self-promotion. My ITB Rabbit GTI is for sale for $3500. It's listed in the classifieds if you're interested. Just to put it in perspective, just the cage and suspension cost more than $3500.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608

ILenhart
04-29-2003, 11:55 PM
D_Bat,
My loss your gain! I have 2 ITB A1 GTI'S that I have lost interest in. I put a rod through the block in one and the motor is out of 2nd car waiting for head gasket and reinstallation. No time and I would love more garage space. Located in Kenosha, WI.
asking $1500 & $2500 for 2nd car. Price as is! Email me if anyone is interested.

Ian
[email protected]

D_Bat
04-30-2003, 01:05 AM
aaaawwwwww man. I might have gotten the first car if I had the money but I still need to sell a few parts to get even up to the 700 dollar range and i am going to be spending the money I MAKE over the summer, not the money i actually have now, otherwise I would do it. I can get a engine for the car no problem. The guy near me sells them for like 100 to 200 dollar each and they run. i can get a GTI 8v for that much with the high compression and all.

Sorry to disappoint you.

------------------
1998 VW Jetta GLX
Past Away - 1986 VW Jetta GL

RSTPerformance
04-30-2003, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by D_Bat:
Brakes are fun too. I looked at them. I will probably spend a good 500 dollars to switch to rear discs, get propotioning valves, get all new vented ATE rotors, and some nice EBC Greenstuff pads or so or what ever you guys recomend. Braking power is just as important as going power. Gotta love the red painted rear drums on a dropped Honda. Sorry. had to add that in.




I love the enthusiasim but definetly get a rule book before you get or buy anything! Everyhting in the previous paragraph is against the rules, except the brake shoes and the red paint http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif I would recomend Shine Racing Service. we race against there cars every race and they always do well with well setup cars. I think they have all the advice and knowledge on VW's as well. tell them what you cna spend and they will tell you what to get.

Stephen

D_Bat
04-30-2003, 08:47 AM
Some of the VWs did come with rear disc brakes so they were stock on some of them which means I could put the stock rear discs on right?? I didn't know about the brands of pads but you can switch your car to the "best" stock setup right?

shwah
04-30-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by D_Bat:
Some of the VWs did come with rear disc brakes so they were stock on some of them which means I could put the stock rear discs on right?? I didn't know about the brands of pads but you can switch your car to the "best" stock setup right?


aw man! What happened to all my text? Ok here goes again.

It looks like the Jetta is listed on one line for 2 door and 4 door versions. The GLI came with disks so you could add them, but to be honest you don't need much rear braking force. They also list the 8.5:1 motor, but I know the 10:1 motor came in the GLIs and in all later A2 Jettas. I guess someone needs to petition the SCCA to correct the information.

For your stated goals and budget I recommend running a stock motor with a header initially. It will be reliable and cheaper to get going. Spend your $$ on suspension, safety equipment and drivetrain components (new hubs, bearings, CVs etc.). Then as time and money allows put in a trans with a lower final drive and a locked or limited slip diff, and build a motor to the rules. And of course at all times have fun.

I did basically the same thing, starting with a free no sunroof, no AC 1986 GTI about 2 years ago. I traded parts, found deals on used stuff and did most of the work myself. The car was just completed, and I will be getting my competition license this year. I have a stock 50k mile motor with a header, bought a second hand Ground Control suspension with Konis, re-engineered some old bottom mount camber plates to top mount and used a bolt in cage. Total cost was about $3500 including driver safety gear, but I will get tires before running so $4000+ is a legitimate number to shoot for. I will be changing to a custom welded cage in a year or two and building an IT spec motor for the future. Hopefully a new trans will be in by years end, but regardless I will be out there learning and having fun.

I was lucky to have some freinds with lots of IT experience in A2 VWs, and it was an invaluable resource. I would only recommend tackling this project if you have similar 'advisors' available to help you.

Good Luck
Chris


[This message has been edited by shwah (edited April 30, 2003).]

D_Bat
04-30-2003, 05:02 PM
I have one friend in Ohio, which is really far away form me and I have a company here in town that has a few cars in IT racing. Company is called atlantic auto works.

What exactly is a IT spec motor??? I thought you could only run stock motors with a few changes. From what I know a IT spec motor would be a stock GTI high compression motor with new pistons to bring up the compression to 10.5:1 and a full balance of the motor, new oil pan/windage tray with oil cooler, and a big valve head or seomthing from one of the VWs. I forget which A2 had the biggest valves. Also. I know the digifant intake and all flows better than the CIS cars but....... they are harder to tweek and all because of their ECU. I would like to mix and match digi parts and CIS parts but it isn't possible. Oh well. I think the digis were the ones with the bigger valves, I think but I am not sure. any ways. Nice find. Hopefully I can pull a few strings and get some nice deals. I don't plan on having this car done soon and hopefully I can get a friend to help finance and all. I have a friend that wanted to make a car like this a while ago but he had financial issues and that was a year ago and I haven't really talked to him since so I got rid of my old A2 4door Jetta but now I have this and maybe he will do it again.

DoorDoctor
04-30-2003, 09:12 PM
Rethink your dream of trying to go sports car club racing on a budget. You can't.
The people who do this have deep pockets.
The entry fee's and tires alone will kill your wallet in a hurry. Go to some races and volunteer to work the event. Only then will you get a feel for how expensive it is to be a race car driver.

D_Bat
04-30-2003, 10:04 PM
we'll see how I do. If anything then I can stil do autocross with the car and have some fun with it on different things that aren't neccessarily IT racing. IT is just a goal. my main goal is to have fun.

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1998 VW Jetta GLX
Past Away - 1986 VW Jetta GL

Rick Phelps
04-30-2003, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by D_Bat:
I have one friend in Ohio, which is really far away form me and I have a company here in town that has a few cars in IT racing. Company is called atlantic auto works.

What exactly is a IT spec motor??? I thought you could only run stock motors with a few changes. From what I know a IT spec motor would be a stock GTI high compression motor with new pistons to bring up the compression to 10.5:1 and a full balance of the motor, new oil pan/windage tray with oil cooler, and a big valve head or seomthing from one of the VWs. I forget which A2 had the biggest valves. Also. I know the digifant intake and all flows better than the CIS cars but....... they are harder to tweek and all because of their ECU. I would like to mix and match digi parts and CIS parts but it isn't possible. Oh well. I think the digis were the ones with the bigger valves, I think but I am not sure. any ways. Nice find. Hopefully I can pull a few strings and get some nice deals. I don't plan on having this car done soon and hopefully I can get a friend to help finance and all. I have a friend that wanted to make a car like this a while ago but he had financial issues and that was a year ago and I haven't really talked to him since so I got rid of my old A2 4door Jetta but now I have this and maybe he will do it again.
Your questions are all answered in the GCR.
Racing at even this "entry" level is costly. Do you plan to sleep in your car? Entry fees are more like 3-400 $ for a week end. More to add a practice day Your posts sound like you are in High School. Do you have a rich Mommy or Daddy?
Good luck but there ain't no free lunch out there!

DoorDoctor
04-30-2003, 10:35 PM
see what I mean
have fun with the jetta coupe and maybe try a open track event to get the feel of being on a track

D_Bat
04-30-2003, 11:15 PM
Ya. I'm 18 and i am in my last week of High school and will be going to UCF next year. No my mommy and daddy aren't rich. I just trade parts for money and I work during the summers and some during school but that isn't the point. The point is is that I am a new guy to the SCCA and I am trying to get some help by coming here, not interogated. I pay for all my mods and got my car i am now driving as a daily driver as a present from my whole family. They all piched in money. My first car I got for free because one of my adult friends was buying a new 90s jetta and didn't really know what to do with his old one so he gave it to me.

Now if you wanna be a ass a little more then please don't post to me. Sorry if I am over reacting but it sometimes gets me mad when people do this. I know I am new. Everybody has to start some where. I have nobody to help me here locally so I turn to the internet.

I have neem modding my cars for about 3 years now and doing my own engine work on them because I can't afford mechanics all the time.

My plan is to stop modding my daily drivers and just go with the full out race car. I am sorry that I waisted your time to read this post. Have a nice day. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

------------------
1998 VW Jetta GLX
Past Away - 1986 VW Jetta GL

DoorDoctor
04-30-2003, 11:46 PM
Age has nothing to do with it.I too started a it project got the cage and seats and my wallet gave out.I may get my comp license in the next couple of years Who knows
If people didn't want to help you they wouldn't post here.Try a open track event

D_Bat
04-30-2003, 11:52 PM
Your a cool guy Door Doc. I was talking to Rick. Sorry if there was a miss communication. I am gunna start auto crossing my daily driver a little so I can get a better feel for it then once my track car is semi ready I will start it on auto cross, take some schools, then do some open track things. Its good that I live about one hour and 30 mintes away from daytona I guess. hehe.

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1998 VW Jetta GLX
Past Away - 1986 VW Jetta GL

RSTPerformance
05-01-2003, 02:08 AM
To everyone that doesn't support D Bat. I hope you enjoy smaler racing fields and Higher entry fees. You guys need the reality check..... It takes all sorts of people on all sorts of incomes to make racing enjoyable. Some people don't care if they win or not. Entry fees in NER for a Double race weekend may reach 300 tops but never more.

My new advice to you D Bat.
Don't listen to negative critisism. and if you do take it as constructive. I think that being 18 and doing exactly what you are doing is perfect. Just imagine how smart, and good you will be when you are my age (25) That's 7 years of hands on experience. I think most people that feed you critisism probably took the same path you are and they just don't realize the benifits of doing things on your own. I am a firm beleiver that you can't pay your way through life. Take every challenge you can!
If this was a cooking forum people would tell you not to bother cooking pizza from scratch because you can take frozen pizza and heat it up that's just as good and easier.

Stephen

PS a reminder on the goals of this site posted on the home page of this site:
Welcome to Improved Touring.com. Our goals are to increase the popularity and provide an information exchange for the most affordable and competitive road racing series in America.

D_Bat
05-01-2003, 02:22 AM
Thank you RST. Your a very kind guy. Hopefully I can meet ya in the field or seomthing. Hehe. I know forums always have their sore spots. I am on about 5 or so forums from Airsoft Guns, Audi Forums, VW forums, and a Bio Diesel. I general. When I wanna say something bad, which is close to never, I just keep my mouth shut. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif Its the best thing to do. Like mommy says. "If you don't have something good to say then don't say anything" Well. Once i get the check pay check this friday and I get the money from the parts I am currently selling I will go check out the car again, get the title switched over, and then have some fun with it. Until then. i prolly won't be here much because I got all my questions answered. Thank you all so much. You have been very helpful.

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1998 VW Jetta GLX
Past Away - 1986 VW Jetta GL

SamITC85
05-01-2003, 12:01 PM
Stephen,
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who is thinking like you. Racing on a budget CAN
be done and discouraging anyone from racing is not doing our part as SCCA members to increase membership, especially from the younger generation.

D_Bat I have raced against Stephen and his brother and they have done things the way you want to do it and have been very successful, including a couple of wins in the past two years. Another way to go about it, is do what we did at UMass. Start a student organization, ours was UMass Motorsports, and go racing that way. In two years we had a fairly competitive ITC Rabbit and I spent $0 dollars on the car, all I paid for was entries and drivers equip. The schools activities fund paid for the rest and we got 30 plus new SCCA members and at least 4 liscensed drivers. I f you have any questions about it feel free to email me at [email protected] Good Luck and hopefully you will be on the track soon.

------------------
Sam Rolfe
TBR Motorsports
#85 ITC VW Rabbit
#85 GP Scirocco on the way
#11 GP Scirocco on the way

RSTPerformance
05-06-2003, 12:04 PM
Just a quick tip from the older brother...

You mentioned that you might have a freind build your cage... (Great idea, saves a lot of $$$) make sure that you have the correct tubing (they drill a hole and measure the tubing wall thickness to be sure you are to spec) and also they will check to see if all the welds are perfect and go all the way around any joints... 1 little gap could prevent you from going on the track and the gap would probbly be in a place that you could not get a welder to without taking out a window or something...

Also just to back up the Racing doesn't have to cost a lot theory... I bet just about any car (not ITS and ITA might be a streatch) can be built into a mid pack car with less than $2,000 (In New England anyway), and I bet you can make a winning car for around $5,000 tops...

Raymond "spending a lot less than my brother!!!" Blethen
RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com (http://www.rstperformance.com)

D_Bat
05-06-2003, 03:13 PM
Hey hey. I just went to your site. Nice site. I gotta start on mine and all to get it going. You have a pretty nice Audi Coupe. me likey. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

For some spare parts and all I found a guy that will sell me his car for 200 dollars and I think the only thing it is missing is the fuel pump and it has the RD engine so I am gunna buy it, switch it out with mine so I have the high compression 8v, and then I need to look for a close ratio tranny because he said the tranny's first and second gear are pretty bad. So now I guess I will have some nice extra things like P/S Pumps, water pumps, and other such. I can also use my old tranny too as a spare. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif He said the only thing that is wrong with the engine is that the timing chain skipped a notch or soemthing and there is no valve damage and all.

Thanx for the help again.

------------------
1998 VW Jetta GLX
Past Away - 1986 VW Jetta GL

hornerdon
05-08-2003, 05:01 AM
D_Bat, you mentioned Atlantic Auto Works and UCF. I take it from that you're in Melbourne, FL. Go over to Atlantic and introduce yourself to David Boles, the owner. Offer to do anything he wants, sweep floors, clean the race car, anything, if you can hang around and learn about IT Volkswagens. David is currently racing in H Production with a Scirocco, but he may still have some IT cars hanging around, his or customer's.

Your idea of autocrossing first is great. They aren't as tough about rules unless you start winning (in other words, they'll find a place for almost anything to race). Events are held several times a year near the community college in Palm Bay. Ask David for an old copy of The Checker, Central Florida Region's magazine. It will have schedules, and also an application for an SCCA membership. That's the first thing you should get for your birthday or whatever. Then, go to scca.org, get the merchandise order form, and order the Solo II rule book for autocross and the GCR for road racing rules. Read them until they're falling apart.

Good luck.


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Don Horner
Port St. Lucie, FL
[email protected]

D_Bat
05-08-2003, 08:23 AM
I have been down there a few times when I had my 86 but I haven't been down there in a while now. I drove by a few times in the past month or two and he hasn't been open and I don't see any more VWs laying around his shop. I thought he was racing a IT Golf or GTI or seomthing wasn't he or did he get rid of it?? Anyways. Thanx again.

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1998 VW Jetta GLX
Past Away - 1986 VW Jetta GL