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Spiro13
07-19-2002, 08:21 PM
Has anybody installed a 8 gallon ATL Well Cell in the spare tire well of a Rabbit? I'm interested in knowing any problems that might be encountered and if there is any fuel pickup problems with the cell. Also if the spare tire well surrounding the fuel cell meets the specifications for the metal container.

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Tony
ITC #0

dave parker
07-20-2002, 11:36 AM
Tony,
Why would you want to hang 56 pounds(approx.)of weight behind the rear track arm? If you look really close at a rabbit the fuel tank is in a pretty safe spot and well located as far as weight bias and distribution. The only better factory VW example would be and A2 Golf.
An even better question would be could you get through a whole sprint race on eight gallons?
dave parker
wdcr itb #13

racerdrew43
07-20-2002, 12:53 PM
Tony,
Of course you can do a sprint race on 8 gallons (probably 3 gallons).My guess is that your car gets around 14MPG.
Make sure if you buy the cell, you have an extra fitting in the bulkhead for the fuel return. It should have a fill neck, A fuel supply, A fuel Return and a Vent. You can easily add one if the cell isn't offered with one. Remember you have to be able to fill the thing once and a while and it can be a little akward without (i.e a funnel), so you may consider buying it with a remote filler neck and run some plastic tubing t your original gas cap. Plan on an additional pump to pump fuel from the tank(transfer)and a sump of some kind. this provides the high pressure pump with fuel at all times and wont burn out your existing fuel pump.
You will also need to build a cover/bulkhead between the top of the cell and the drivers compartment. I vaguely remember looking into these cells, I think they're expensive are they not?.
Good Luck

Spiro13
07-20-2002, 02:30 PM
Thanks for the information.
My tank has the broken pick up inside. I went to have it repaired and was told the whole tank was basically junk. I haven't been able to find a better one with the fuel pick up in the correct location. I'm going the Well Cell route as an alternative.

reacerdrew43
I thought about the transfer tank but the rules don't say you can add an additional pump and tank. I was thinking the baffles in the cell would keep the fuel around the pic up a little longer than the oem tank.

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Tony
ITC #0

racer_tim
07-20-2002, 02:56 PM
Spiro13, I installed my Fuel Safe 8 gallon cell in the spare tire well. I also installed a 2nd electric fuel pump, to feed the stock pump.

You need to have 2 pickups inside of the cell, or your'll starve on either right or left corners, depending which side the single pickup is on.

Trust me on this. I've been chasing this for the 4 races.

Check out http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/2002/

and look @ the top 3 pictures.



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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 ITB GTI, GP for 2002

hornerdon
07-20-2002, 08:52 PM
If you want to spend a little more money (OK, a lot more money), you can buy the well cell with ATL's pickup apparatus inside. It consists of a box with 3 trap doors to hold fuel around the pickup no matter how low it gets, and a fuel pump.

Bill Gotwalt installed a well cell in his H Production Rabbit and it was a neat looking installation. I talked to Sven about it, and after the conversation, came to the conclusion that I would fabricate an aluminum liner for the spare tire well before installing the cell. I plan to make the liner just a little larger than the cell, and foam it in place between the liner and the spare tire well. My "bulkhead" will also be aluminum. It will be mostly flat with the floor with a small box over the filler next.

As for the weight, I think it can't do anything but improve the weight distribution. It really isn't all that much further bac - while it's behind the axle, it's between the wheels.

On the two Rabbits I have that had cells installed by others, they cut the subframe that runs under the floor in order to get the cell ahead of the tire well, and on one of them, they also cut away half of the tire well. I'd prefer not to have to cut that structure, or cut the floor pan in any way, which is another good reason for the well cell. I plan to use one in my HP Scirocco.

Bill Miller
07-20-2002, 11:58 PM
Nice pics Tim!

Don,

I'm not really crazy about moving 50 - 75 # aft of the rear axle, creates a pretty big moment arm.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI

Ryan Williams
07-21-2002, 01:45 PM
When installing the Fuelsafe cell in my HP Wabbit, I removed a large portion of the rear floor, enough to accommodate the cell and its metal container. The front of the metal container is about 2 inches behind (or to the rear) of the rear axle beam. I wanted the cell as close to the center of the car as possible to minimize the polar moment of the cell and its container.

Since the roll cage extends to the rear shock housings, and there is a horizontal bar between the housings, I was not concerned about removing the rear floor.

In my system, I have a low-pressure Carter fuel pump drawing fuel from the cell. Prior to the Carter pump, I have a Fran fuel filter. The Carter pump feeds an aluminum reservior (approximately 1 quart) that has three connections on its top lid. One connection is the input from the Carter pump, another is the CIS fuel return, and the third connection is an overflow return to the fuel cell. In theory, the reservior is always full. The bottom connection of the reservior feeds the CIS high-pressure pump.

The Carter pump (or some type of low-pressure pump) is needed as the CIS high-pressure pump does not draw fuel very well as it is a "pusher" rather than a "sucker" pump.

A future winter project may be to install a fuel cell in front of the rear axle beam to minimize the polor moment even more. Regards, Ryan.

Spiro13
07-21-2002, 07:55 PM
Ryan

What pressure does your Carter pump put out?
I see pumps with pressures from 1.5 to
9 lbs. and fuel delivery from 25 to 45 GPH. Which should be used to feed the reservoir?

Thanks everyone for the help. The information covers every aspect of the installation.

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Tony
ITC #0

Ryan Williams
07-21-2002, 10:05 PM
The low-pressure Carter pump has an output of about 3 psi to 6 psi. The important facet of the low-pressure pump is to feed the reservior, so a fairly low pressure is only required. Even if the reservior becomes totally full, the return line from the top of the reservior to the fuel cell allows excess fuel to return to the cell (see previous post about reservior connections). Regards, Ryan.

moliver
07-22-2002, 11:30 AM
I have one in my Scirocco. Fits nice. Make sure you measure the diameter of your spare tire well, they fit in my 75 Scirocco but would not fit in my 88 Scirocco.

E-mail me and I will send you a picture, I have not had problems with fuel slosh.

Spiro13
07-22-2002, 04:35 PM
moliver

Your e-mail is not in the profile. I would like to see the picture and get some information. My e-mail is [email protected]

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Tony
ITC #0

SamITC85
07-22-2002, 07:35 PM
Tony,
When I ran the 12 hours at the point with Brian Mushnick we ran the 8 gal well cell. You may want to talk to Brian and or his brother Stu about how they set it up. You can get their infor at www.briansgarage.com (http://www.briansgarage.com), and there may even be some pics of it.


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Sam Rolfe
TBR Motorsports
#85 ITC VW Rabbit
#85 GP Scirocco on the way
#11 GP Scirocco on the way

Eric Parham
08-15-2002, 06:46 PM
I heard that one of the cell manufacturers already has an A1 tank mold. You just open your old tank and use it as the metal container, leaving the weight in just the right spot. I was going to get one a few years ago but didn't have the cash for all the accessories -- will definitely be doing one this winter.

Spiro13
08-17-2002, 06:58 PM
Eric

That sounds great.I didn't know about it. If you could let me know the manufacturer I would appreciate it. My e-mail address is [email protected]

Thanks

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Tony
ITC #0