ITB Scirrocco 13" wheels

[itracer]

I recently bought an ITB Scirocco with 13"x6" wheels (only 4). I have found that they are difficult to come by. I have been running 14" Hoosiers since the 14" wheels are easily accessible; but I have been told that the 13's will be faster.

Does anyone know where to find some reasonable 13x6?

Also --
Recommendation for tires would be appreciated.

Any insight would be appreciated


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Jason
ITB 17 (NER SCCA)

[dave parker]

Jason
We ran 13x5.5's on our golf gti its first year in ITB.13x6's are hard to find and way too expensive for non factory VW wheels.
We went to 14x6 wheels and had much better luck.Less tire "rollover" ie the sidewall of the tire folding under on the rim. 13's will give you quicker acceleration. 14's a higher top speed.Although the difference is marginal between the two. We use the factory "gti" snowflake wheels,there are millions of them.They are pretty durable and all the import kids don't want them once they go with 17's,18's or whatever on their streetcars.
The absolute best tire to run in my free opinion is the BFG R1,of course like everything really good you can't get them anymore....
Toyo proxes RA1's are an excellent choice for a begining driver,handle good,durable,and damn near rock hard. Actually the only difference between a rock and a toyo proxes is the toyo will burn if you put enough heat to it.
We have also had great luck with Kumho V700 Victoracers.
Hope that helps.
dave parker
wdcr itb#13

[racer_tim]

Jason, I've got a set of 13x5.5 Ronal's that were rn in the Rabbit Cup in the early 80's.

I've also got a stock set of 13x5.5 that came from an A1 Scirocco.

Let me know if your interested.


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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 ITB GTI, GP for 2002

[Bill Miller]

The only new 13x6 wheels you're going to find are true race wheels (Panasport, etc.) and they're not cheap. Plan on spending $600+ for a set. Since you can run the 14's, I'd go w/ them. They're cheap and plentiful. I know TireRack and some old Borbet's they were selling for ~$75.

If you decide to go 14's, I would like to talk w/ you about purchasing the 13x6's. I'm building a l-p HProd Scirocco (Mk I), and we're only allowed to run 13's.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608

[racer14itc]

This one's a gift. I have plenty of 13x6 wheels, otherwise I'd snag these. If they really are 13x6 (and they look it), they'd fit a Scirocco just fine! And the current bid is just $51!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...item=1845821036 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1845821036)

MC
#14 GP VW Scirocco

[Ryan Williams]

At one time, there were numerous 13x6 VW steel wheels available from salvage yards. They are definitely heavier than an alloy wheel but they are sufficient for mounting rain tires. The only disadvantage is that the steel wheels increase the unsprung weight of each corner of the car.

You probably will not find any cheap, used 13x6 alloy wheels unless you find an owner who does not know their value. Consequently the only other choice is the aftermarket race alloy. Just depends on your race budget and a potential concern about the amount of unsprung weight. Regards, Ryan.

[Bill Miller]

Mark,

I had a set of those exact wheels that I sold to a friend who used to race, of all things, a Scirocco. He ran a Mk I w/ a 1.7 as an EMRA ST4 car. From what I remember, I got them on a Mk I Scirocco that I ended up selling to someone else. I think I sold those wheels for $200 back in '95 or '96. And mine weren't in that good of shape. BTW, bid's up to $74.01 now. I'll check tomorrow AM. Auction ends ~noon tomorrow. Shipping is goinig to be $10/wheel at least.

Ryan,

I've never seen a 13x6 steel VW wheel. Seen plenty of 13x5 and 13x5.5, but no 13x6. AFAIK, there are no OEM VW wheels in 13x6 (at least the US models).

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

I mentioned the hint about the mid-80s Renault Cup MOMO alloys being this size but the previous note reminds me that we had steel wheels available as well. They did not have much ventilation, as I recall (and we never went fast enough to worry much about brakes) but we used them with rain tires. Or on the street, commuting to the University of Washington http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

There must still be some of these floating around out there...

Kirk

[Bill Miller]

Well, I decided to bid on them. We'll see if I get them. Only 2.5 hours left.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608

[itracer]

[quote]Originally posted by Bill Miller:
[B]Well, I decided to bid on them. We'll see if I get them. Only 2.5 hours left.

I had bid on them as well, but you out bid me.

Jason
ITB 17

[email protected]

[Bill Miller]

They're up over $100, I'm out. Still not a bad price, I just don't have the extra cash right now. Probably going to be $150 shipped.

Edit: Winning bid was $157.50 http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/eek.gif
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608

[This message has been edited by Bill Miller (edited July 29, 2002).]

[JohnRW]

BMW 320 13x6" alloys. Cheap, cheap, cheap. See your local junque-yard. You'll need different lug bolts (straight shoulder vs. VW ball shoulder), but that's only $20 at NAPA.

The offset is different, but SO WHAT ??? I've run them on Golfs and Sciroccos for years, and the 205's I've run don't rub (Yok, Kumho, Toyo, Bridgestone's, BFG's....don't know if the 205 Hoosiers would be close, but 30 seconds with a baseball bat would fix that.

The best part is that my SRF generates an unending supply of 13" Yok 008R's for my Golf.

The fastest, bestest, stickiest tire on earth is a free tire.

[JohnRW]

BMW 320 13x6" alloys. Cheap, cheap, cheap. See your local junque-yard. You'll need different lug bolts (straight shoulder vs. VW ball shoulder), but that's only $20 at NAPA.

The offset is different, but SO WHAT ??? I've run them on Golfs and Sciroccos for years, and the 205's I've run don't rub (Yok, Kumho, Toyo, Bridgestone's, BFG's....don't know if the 205 Hoosiers would be close, but 30 seconds with a baseball bat would fix that.

The best part is that my SRF generates an unending supply of 13" Yok 008R's for my Golf.

The fastest, bestest, stickiest tire on earth is a free tire.

[racer14itc]

The final bid was $157.50 for (4) 13x6 MSW alloys. Assuming $40 to ship all 4 wheels, that's 4 wheels for $200, or about the price of ONE Panasport. Not too bad!

Just an example that there are 13x6 wheels out there for a reasonable price. If you check Ebay periodically, you'll find them.

BTW, I think the winner of the auction drives an ITC Scirocco...just my hunch! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

MC
#14 GP VW Scirocco

[Greg Gauper]

On a tangent ....Thank you to who ever suggested using a wooden baseball/softball bat for performing the legal modification of flattening the inner fender lip! I tried it last week after I noticed I was slightly rubbing the tire on my left front. I inserted the bat between the tire and fender and rolled the bat back and forth while changing the angle and progressively working towards the fat end of the bat. It left a really smooth edge. Works great! Chews up the bat pretty good so use an old one.

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Greg Gauper:
On a tangent ....Thank you to who ever suggested using a wooden baseball/softball bat for performing the legal modification of flattening the inner fender lip! I tried it last week after I noticed I was slightly rubbing the tire on my left front. I inserted the bat between the tire and fender and rolled the bat back and forth while changing the angle and progressively working towards the fat end of the bat. It left a really smooth edge. Works great! Chews up the bat pretty good so use an old one.


Standard technique! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif


Mark, I don't think those wheels cost much more than $50/ea when they were new.


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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608

[racer14itc]

Hi Bill,

I don't know anything about "MSW" wheels, and have no idea what they cost new. But economics tells us supply/demand will affect the current price and I do know the supply of 13x6 wheels seems to be less than the demand, hence the rising prices, right?

Personally, I'm sticking with Panasports on the GP car because of the loading the slicks puts on the wheels!

MC
#14 GP VW Scirocco

[Bill Miller]

Mark,

I understand the economics of the situation. I would have bought them if I could have got them for $100. Like I said, I had a set of those exact wheels that I sold 6 or 7 years ago for $200 or $250 (can't remember). Not sure why the guy bought them for that much, I think you could still get 13's back then.

These would have been good rain wheels or to hang the used slicks I've got on just to try them out. I'll probably end up going w/ Panasports as well. I had them on my ITA MR2, and while they may not be the lightest thing out there, they are damn strong. I'll just keep my eyes open for bargins. Don't really have the money to buy anything right now.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608

[machschnell]

I have a set of steel 13x6s for sale, but I was just contacted in the last 2 days by someone who seems interested.

I can let you know if it falls through.

http://www.volkswagenracer.com/forums/topi...asp?TOPIC_ID=33 (http://www.volkswagenracer.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33)

PJ

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83 Rabbit GTI - future ITB

[itracer]

Thanks for all your suggestions.

I also bowed out of the ebay when it went over $110.

I bid a couple bucks on a set of BMW 320 wheels. I won't try too hard to get them though.

I think I will stick with my plan to run 14's as they are readily available (we have many).

I will keep the 13's and mount a set of rains, since I only need 4.

Thanks,

Jason

[Eric Parham]

OEM 13x5.5 steel and alloy wheels first came on the 1980 Jetta I. The 13x6 steel wheels were only available in Europe, and I've only seen one set mounted on a US stealthmobile, and never found a single one at the boneyard. They're rarer than hens teeth and not worth looking for, IMHO.

I worked hard to get the 14x6" wheels allowed for the ITB Scirocco II, and think they work better than the 13s at most tracks. I'd say that they're faster at Lime Rock and Watkins Glen, although 13s gave me better times at NHIS (probably a gearing issue). The stock 14x6s are also cheap and plentiful.

[Bill Miller]

Eric,

I'm curious as to how you were able to get the 14" wheels allowed on the ITB Mk II Sciroccos. It's my understanding that they all came w/ 13" wheels until the 16v cars came out in '87 (teardrops). I didn't think the 8v cars ever came w/ 14" wheels?

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608

[itracer]

[quote] I didn't think the 8v cars ever came w/ 14" wheels?

I don't think the 8v ever came with them; but the ITCS states that the 83-88 8v Scirocco II can run 13" or 14" wheels.

I'm not complaining http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Jason
17 ITB (Scirocco) NER SCCA

[Bill Miller]

Jason,

I know that's what the ITCS says, I'm just wondering how it got in there since I don't think the car ever came w/ 14" wheels. And, don't get the idea that I'm trying to get the 14" wheels pulled from the Scirocco. I'm just looking for more 'inconsistencies' in the ITCS. If the car didn't come w/ 14's and they're allowed, I think you could call that a comp. adjustment [crawls back under rock]

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608

[itracer]

[quote]Originally posted by Bill Miller:
If the car didn't come w/ 14's and they're allowed, I think you could call that a comp. adjustment [crawls back under rock]

It may very well be a comp adj. That statement may turn this thread into what all the others seem to turn into.

But, this thread has proven that the availability of the 13x6 wheels is very slim (affordable ones anyway).

Eric:
If you were responsible for the 14" wheels -- Thank-you.

I may keep my set of 13's for NHIS & run 14's everywhere else. I did notice some difference between the school (I ran 13's) and the race (14's); but I am still learning the car, so I will have to spend more time comparing the two.

Jason

[Eric Parham]

Bill,

Some US edition 8V Sciroccos came with 14" wheels. It is documented in some of the 1983-1985 owners manuals (pre-16V) as well as the dealer microfiche. I believe that I found the first reference in the winter driving section of an owners manual, where it warned not to use chains on the stock 14" wheels for the Scirocco! That was just a clue, but the dealer microfiche was conclusive. I usually carry a photocopy of that microfiche with me to the races. This was NOT a competition adjustment, IMHO, but nice try http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

Eric

[Bill Miller]

Eric,

If the cars came w/ them, I have issue w/ it whatsoever. I'm more of an A1 GTI guy, so my knowledge of the rest of the VW line isn't as complete. I was just not aware of any 8v Sciroccos ever coming w/ 14" wheels. Good for you for finding the documentation to get them added! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608