engine mangement systems

[racerdrew43]

I may be in the dark ages, I've been running stock bosch stuff in my car. Are engine management systems available for CIS/CIS-E cars and are they legal for preperation-H?

[pet_aux_fruits]

HEY! that's funny... preparation H up here in canada is hemeroids cream..... lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

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touring GT #69 eastern canadian touring GT championchip....MK2 jetta 16V 2.0l

[Scirocco#28]

There is a product called k-star (sorry no link)from UK. It was developed for high compression motors when they got rid of their higher octane fuel. I'm still waiting on their brochure to see what its all about, but it can adjust timing as well as fuel pressure on the fly to your specs.

Steve

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88 ITB Scirocco
www.geocities.com/highspeedconnectionracing (http://www.geocities.com/highspeedconnectionracing)

[SteveMc]

Drew,

I didn't know that you are going HP. Interested in an '81 scirocco chassis? I have on here in Granby. Looking to get rid of it. Let me know. I'm in the book, give me a call.

[hornerdon]

Originally posted by Scirocco#28:
There is a product called k-star (sorry no link)from UK. It was developed for high compression motors when they got rid of their higher octane fuel. I'm still waiting on their brochure to see what its all about, but it can adjust timing as well as fuel pressure on the fly to your specs.


I started a thread on K Star on the volkswagenracer.com forum, but not too many people are looking over there right now. First, here's the link: http://www.milford.ndirect.co.uk/kstar.htm...#microprocessor (http://www.milford.ndirect.co.uk/kstar.html#microprocessor)

They make 3 products. One is a programmable (in 500 RPM increments) ignition module to control timing. This should be legal on both IT and limited prep production cars. The second is a programmable module for the CIS K Jetronic system, and the third is a combo unit that handles the ignition and fuel injection in one module. They also sell a program called K Soft that sets up the programming. The prices on their web site are in English Pounds, but without checking the conversion rate, I think the combo module is less than $500. I don't have a price for the software.

The fuel injection module works in a very similar fashion to the emission control module on all '81 and newer VWs, and on 1980 models in California. It uses a lambda sensor (O2 sensor), the control unit, and a frequency valve to vary control pressure. I've corresponded with them by Email, and they indicate they are not familiar with the US spec emission control system, but believe it might be possible to use their system with the existing frequency valve used by VW. The only difference would be that the control module would be programmable.

This should make the K Star system automatically legal for all limited prep K Jetronic systems in GP, as all GTIs have the emission control system. Legality for HP LP is a bit more problematic, because the only 1.6 VW to have the emission control system is 1980 models sold in Calif. My opinion is that is enough for legality, as they were available on at least some of the US SPec cars listed on the PCS spec line.

Their web site lists Shine as a US dealer. I've sent an Email to Shine to inquire, but have not received an answer yet. Probably the next step is to actually buy one of the units and compare it to the US Spec system, and maybe ship one of our control units and frequency valves to them.

It might even turn out to be legal for IT under the new ECU rules if Milford could install their system in one of our control unit boxes, but I don't pretend to be up on the IT rules.

Don Horner
HP Limited Prep Rabbit Under Construction

[Bill Miller]

Don,

The only issue w/ using that system on a l-p Prod car is the O2 or lambda sensor. As all Prod cars are required to run race gas w/ a DE of 0, you're not going to find an unleaded fuel that you can run. Even the Sunoco/Cam2 unleaded fuels don't pass. And any fuel w/ lead in it will 'poison' the O2 sensor in short order.

Should be good for the IT guys though as they don't have to run race gas (leaded).

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI

[hornerdon]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
The only issue w/ using that system on a l-p Prod car is the O2 or lambda sensor.

You might have noticed a couple of months ago that I was posing that exact question on the production forum. There are some alternatives. Replace the O2 sensor often; some types can be cleaned with a propane torch; and Phil Creighton posted some information about an NGK sensor that lasted a very long time on race fuel.

There is also the possibility of doing the setup with the sensor installed, then letting the programming handle the management without input from the sensor. I know some IT guys install a dummy sensor in the header, then throw the real one under their seat or something so it always reads lean.

Everyone in production who is using some form of engine management system has the same problem. The RX7s get off the hook a little bit, but any of the later cars that are running EFI will also be using the O2 sensor.

The hilarious thing is that at a regional race, there will be more cars running untested fuel than there will be running the mandated and tested race fuel. Showroom Stock, Touring, IT, EP Caterhams, EP RX7s are just some of the exceptions that come to mind. Apparently they aren't worried about that fuel causing the workers any harm.

Don

[Bill Miller]

Don,

I'm not sure why the fuel for those cars would go untested? They still have reagent tests to meet as do the guys that use race gas.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI

[racerdrew43]

Hi Steve,
I'll be in touch, I could use anything salvageable for the scirocco.
I decided only recently to try the limited prep H. Chris is upgrading the cage next week and I have the safety stuff on order.
It will be another "building" year, but then again, what year isn't a building year.
Thanks for the offer Steve, Good to hear from you.
Drew

[Brian GTI GP]

I have talked with the people from K Star it looks like $700-$800 for the complete system and software. Bosh single wire O2 sensors hold up just fine to race gas. Mine has 4 nationals and the Runoffs no deposits yet. I bought it from Advanced Auto Parts for $27.00 and it has a lifetime warranty. The K Star system looks like it would be very helpful and I hope somebody here in the US becomes an active dealer.