swaping parts

[MADDOGJP]

Are you allowed to swap the rear disc from a car from the same year and model? The only difference would be the body Hatch vs 4dr.

Looking for a first set of tires for school and maybe a race or two. Looking for something that will last a long time and be fairly cheap.

Also will not shaving them increase the wear or will the abuse distroy a full depth tire?

Thanks
Jens

[Knestis]

You can swap parts among cars included on the same "spec line" as yours - make, model, and year.

In some cases, a spec line includes 2- and 4-door or other differences in body style but if it doesn't, then you can't use stuff from cars not included there.

K

[MADDOGJP]

so as long as they classify a 2 and 4 door on the same line you can. but what if they are classified in ita but differnet lines then no, right?

[ITANorm]

Technically that is corret - but is this an exercise in theory, or what? What 2-door car is classified on a different line than its 4-door twin? Never mind one that has different brakes. I'm not aware of one.

[MADDOGJP]

It's not classified yet but the 89 accord makes a SE-i with rear disc in 2-4dr but not in the Hatch. I have the hatch with the 4dr rear knuckle assembly installed on my hatch. I did it because I hate working on drums.
I just want to know if I get these cars classified if I'll have to revert back to the drums.

[Bill Miller]

What you can ask for, is to have all three versions (2dr, 3dr, and 4dr) classified. It's certainly been done before where rear drum brake versions have been classified on the same spec line as the rear disc brake versions (A2 and A3 Golfs in ITB are the first ones that jump to mind). If all three end up on the same spec line, you're home free. If the 3-dr is on its own line, then yes, you'll have to convert it back to rear drums. So, make sure you write that letter to include all three configurations.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Joe Harlan]

If I recall you can not create a model that never existed also.

[MADDOGJP]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan:
If I recall you can not create a model that never existed also.

How does that apply here?

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan:
If I recall you can not create a model that never existed also.

Joe,

I know that's what the rules say, but sometimes the rules contradict each other. You've got cases where you have multiple versions of a given car, on the same spec line. You're allowed to freely update / backdate (provided you don't violate the 'complete assembly' clause) to your heart's content. By the very definition of update / backdate, you're creating models that never existed.

And, it's another one of those silly rules that really doesn't make sense. I can build an '83 or '84 Rabbit GTI into an ITB car, but I can't use an '83 or '84 Rabbit (non-GTI), because there's a digit in the VIN# that indicates the engine size (1.7 or 1.8). The GTI was a trim level (1.8 motor, close-ratio 5spd, vented front brakes (same size as Rabbit, 9.4"), 14" wheels, and sway bars (which are free anyway). There's nothing else different between an '83 Rabbit, and an '83 Rabbit GTI. These are the kinds of rules that need to be changed.



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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[zracre]

That opens a can of worms...lighter car? CRX HF in ITA with an SI motor? i wanted to make an ITS car out of my 94 LS but couldnt even though it would be a simple bolt in...too many different cars and models to mix and match...i think it would be simple on the GTI (my last racecar was an 83 GTI) and seems to make sense, but with so many cars out there and different models...it would cause too many problems with different peoples "interpretation" of the rules...

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Evan Darling
ITA Integra

[Bill Miller]

Evan,

How does it matter if it's a lighter car? It still has to make weight. Is it going to make that much difference if you putthe weight a little lower? I do agree, it should probably be handled on a case-by-case basis, but there are certainly plenty of examples where it makes sense. Not to mention examples where you can already do it because there's no way to tell the cars apart, by the VIN# (case in point, you can use any 2dr '87 - '89 Golf chassis to build either an 8v ITB car, or a 16v ITA car. There's no 'motor digit' in the VIN#, that differentiates 8v from 16v.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Joe Harlan]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">It is not permitted to \"create\" a model or type of car by updating or back dating assemblies</font>

Pretty safe to say if the Hatchback model never had disks from the factory that you couldn't put the 2 door version on a hatch legally.

Bill you sure the vin doesn't cover different engines?

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan:
Pretty safe to say if the Hatchback model never had disks from the factory that you couldn't put the 2 door version on a hatch legally.

Bill you sure the vin doesn't cover different engines?

Joe, the 'motor digit' covers displacement (1.6, 1.7, 1.8), but not valvetraine (8v, 16v). It's why you can't do it w/ the '83 - '84 Rabbits, the only one that had the 1.8 was the GTI. I'll have to look it up, but I think the 1.7 was C and the 1.8 was D (I forget the digit position, but it was near the end, close the sequential serial number).



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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Geo]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan:
Pretty safe to say if the Hatchback model never had disks from the factory that you couldn't put the 2 door version on a hatch legally.

Bill you sure the vin doesn't cover different engines?

Since we are speaking hypothetically, if both cars are on the same spec line you may freely interchange assemblies.

If it says you can, you bloody well can and the ITCS specifically allows interchange of assemblies between cars on the same spec line.

Pretty crazy huh?


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[MADDOGJP]

Thanks for the input guys very helpful.

Do they make a high performance shoe for the drums?

[Knestis]

Truth is that you probably don't NEED a hi-per lining material in the rear drums. I use stock pads (disks in my case) that I've filed about half of the material surface off of.

You are right that drums are a PITA to work on but I've been thinking that the ultimate IT Golf would have drums rather than disks. They don't drag when not applied and I think that they might be lighter.

K

[Joe Harlan]

Geo, I really think you need to read that whole rule completely. 17.1.4.C. I clearly states what is allowed and what is not. It is clerly not legal to create a model that never existed.

Joe

I would have highlighted the section but I have not figured out how to copy that section of the book.

[apr67]

Joe.

How praytell can you 'update' or 'backdate' without creating a model?

It has been accepted that you can do things such as:

Run Drums on a Golf GTI which only came with Disks. Why? Because the GT and plain Golf are on the same line.

[Mark LaBarre]

Originally posted by Knestis:
....(disks in my case) that I've filed about half of the material surface off of.

.... I think that they might be lighter.

K

Hmmmm... interesting rules interpretation...

(note, there would be a smilie here if I could figure it out...)

[Joe Harlan]

Originally posted by apr67:
Joe.

How praytell can you 'update' or 'backdate' without creating a model?

It has been accepted that you can do things such as:

Run Drums on a Golf GTI which only came with Disks. Why? Because the GT and plain Golf are on the same line.



The GTI and a regular Golf share the same chassis I believe. The GTI was a trim and engine package but the tubs were the same?

The original question was about swapping parts from a 4 door car to a hatchback. My point is if the Hatch was never made with the disc brakes you would be creating a model. Your GTI example would be downgrading or upgrading a model. I may be confused but read the original question.

[Geo]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan:
Geo, I really think you need to read that whole rule completely. 17.1.4.C. I clearly states what is allowed and what is not. It is clerly not legal to create a model that never existed.

Joe

I would have highlighted the section but I have not figured out how to copy that section of the book.

It also clearly says that components may be update/backdated among cars on the same line of the ITCS.

If (and this is purely theortical mind you), if two different models were listed on the same line, assemblies may be freely exchanged between the two. That is very clear.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[shwah]

Originally posted by apr67:
Joe.

How praytell can you 'update' or 'backdate' without creating a model?

It has been accepted that you can do things such as:

Run Drums on a Golf GTI which only came with Disks. Why? Because the GT and plain Golf are on the same line.



The VW has all kinds of reasons to change rear brakes. GTI, GT, GL all on same line (heck 4dr/2dr are not segregated either) as mentioned. Also - early GTI had rear disk, early non-GTI had small drum, later Golf and GTI had 'big' drum. I actually swapped from disk to small drum during initial build, because they were lighter, but now will switch back because I like the feel and servicability of the disks better.

[Joe Harlan]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">It also clearly says that components may be update/backdated among cars on the same line of the ITCS.</font>

I agree George but you can't just take one sentence out of the rule. You must read the whole rule.

[Geo]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan:

It also clearly says that components may be update/backdated among cars on the same line of the ITCS.

I agree George but you can't just take one sentence out of the rule. You must read the whole rule.



I agree Joe. But the difference (I think) is in the context of where these sentances fall. In reality, the interpretation being used is that in fact you can create a model that didn't exist if you are swapping assemblies among cars on the same spec line.



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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com