SARRC or MARRS ??? VIR MAY 6th-8th

[RSTPerformance]

I am going to be running the VIR event on Mothers day weekend. From what I understand every race actually has 2 races going on. A SARRC and a MARRS. so you get trophies for being first in either series in the same race.... So which one is more attended and tougher than the other? I think I am leaning towards running SARRC just becasue it costs the region more if I run in the MARRS series. I really don't care about running for points for either series but I want to race in the more competitive/ harder group. Any suggestions? Who else is attending the event?? I heard this was a big turnout event.

Thanks,
Stephen Blethen
ITB Audi Coupe

PS does anyone know where to get footage of the "grand Course" I am not attending the test day and I have never driven the track before. I would love to have it memorized or at least get to see what direction it goes before I get on track.

[murphyd]

The races are run at the same time. Each car will display either an M or S to designate Sarrc or Marrs. Very large fields and usually great competition. As for video of the Grand Course, contact Peter Krause at Krause and England in Raleigh NC.

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David Murphy
Murphy Motorsports
ITS 240sx
www.murphymotorsports.net

[Mike Spencer]

Originally posted by murphyd:
...As for video of the Grand Course, contact Peter Krause at Krause and England in Raleigh NC.



David -

Has the Grand Course EVER been run??? Not to my knowledge, but I could be wrong.

------------------------

Stephen -

For a REALLY GREAT video of the Full Course go to http://www.specmiatavideos.com and download the Debbie Buras race. What's nice about that one is it has sound, so you can hear gears and shift points. Maybe not exactly like an ITB Audi, but close!

See you there. I'll be running a blue and red IT7 car.

*** EDIT: Spelling ***

*** EDIT: Learned not to use 'less-than' and 'greater-than' signs around my "EDIT". They don't show up!!!

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Mike Spencer
NC Region
ITA/7 RX-7 #60
1990 RX-7 Convertible (street car)

[This message has been edited by Mike Spencer (edited April 18, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Mike Spencer (edited April 18, 2005).]

[Ron Earp]

As I understand it the Grand Course has never been run in SCCA competition. It was run however at the BMW's Drivers School last month. I've tried to find some in car video from a couple of people I knew but have been unsuccessful.

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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey ITS
1/2 a 260Z ITS

[murphyd]

That is correct. I have seen video from the BMW club. Looks interesting. 28 turns???

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David Murphy
Murphy Motorsports
ITS 240sx
www.murphymotorsports.net

[Knestis]

I understand that the video will be posted at ncrscca.com but I haven't checked in the past few days.

K

EDIT - those M and S stickers are supposed to tell you who to race with but we all know how well THAT will work. It'll be great to see the Audis added to the ITB field. I expect that they will probably suit VIR pretty well. We'll be debuting the new gearbox so the car will be less "a bad SSC car with a trunk kit" (S. Giles, who knows from personal experience)...

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited April 18, 2005).]

[RSTPerformance]

Only 1 Audi http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/frown.gif

Looks like the track is very very high speed... with lots of sweepers. Should be an outstanding track for the Audi, much like Pocono and Road Atlanta http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

Have fun all, and good luck http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

Raymond

[seamus88]

Is this race not on the same course as last year?

[jcmotorsports]

raymond
the track is FAST and also surprisingly technical. i was there in march with the rest of the guys from the northeast. you will have a blast VIR is an awesome track!!! just watch out for those guard rails! http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/frown.gif
john costello

[Ron Earp]

Seamus,

The track is the same but VIR is a very large facility. It can actually host multiple events on the track with no issues. Most weekends motorcycles or a driver's school are running on some course while we are running on another.

The Grand Course that will be run for the first time makes it the largest road course in North America - I think. One lap is something like 3.5 to 4 miles long, but I am not certain. So, while a good portion of it will be what you saw last year a large bit you will not have seen before. Should be a lot of fun!!!!

Here is a link to the facility as a whole:
http://www.virclub.com/cms/

The Grand configuration is not shown but here is a map:
[URL=http://www.virclub.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=23&Itemid=106]http://www.virclub.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=23&Itemid=106[/UR L]


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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey ITS
1/2 a 260Z ITS

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited April 18, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited April 18, 2005).]

[Knestis]

The entire Grande Course is 4.2 miles, I believe. The new part is going to be an interesting addition because it is so NOT like the rest.

From where you turn right off of the "back straight" - the uphill run out of the very slow Oak Tree corner - it drops steeply downhill through a twisty little mess, goes left into another set of twisties over a couple of little hills, then left again trudging uphill to the top of Rollercoaster. (I'm so hating that last part already.)

This entire loop is very narrow and light cars are going to love it, shifting the lap time advantage - if not the racing advantage - more their direction than is the case on the "Full Course." It creates a passing opportunity at "Bitch" - that sharp right off of the straight - that might not be terribly hard to defend, since it gets pretty one-line for the next mile.

Be very glad that the inner loop is run the way it is, so as not to screw up one of the best turns on the track - South Bend, the fast left at the top of the Esses.

K

[zooracer]

I'm registered for the SARRC 1 race, but dont know if that means only one race or two. The fee was 180 bucks.
Be first time out with a welded diff on my suzuki swift in ITB. I'll either be really fast, or pushing like crazy thru all the long sweepers.
Keep my fingers crossed.
It'll be nice to be on track with some really fast ITB cars like the audi. Give me a chance to see what I need to win at the ARRC.
matt

[JeffYoung]

Zoo, you need to register for both SARRCS, to run both Saturday and Sunday.

RSTP, as Kirk indicated the Grande Course is 4.2 miles. LONG. They've taken the end of the longest straight sheared it off about 3/4 of the way down, but it is still a decent one as is the front straight. There are two uphill sections that reward smooth flowing lines (the uphill to Rollercoaster and the uphill esses) and torque, which your car should have.

At VIR, the Volvos and a Dodge Charger, but really the Volvos are dominant in ITB because of torque/power. The Audi should be an interesting competitor.

You should sign up for both SARRC races if you are not racing either the SARRC or MARS series. You will have more "competitors" although we all race each other pretty hard - there is a bit of a regional rivalry and (friendly) and we don't liking losing to the MARS boys.

Last, this is a HUGE event. I think 420 cars last year. ITS/ITA/IT7 run group was about 55 cars. Great racing. You will have a blast.

[Knestis]

I don't think ANYTHING in ITB will make as good time as a reasonable Swift in the new inner loop. That's exactly the kind of car I was talking about the new section favoring.

K

[madrabbit15]

Zoo,

Just a little friendly advice,speaking from a lot of experience with welded in a front wheel drive I would not show up to the track with out testing it first unless you have already done something to make the car extremely loose. If you go to a welded from a limited slip situation or open, it will push so bad, be prepared to be 1-2 seconds off what you would have been. Atleast make sure you have a lot of adjustment available to make it much more loose, like bigger rear bar or stiffer rear springs, adjustable rear stocks, etc. Not trying to tell you your business just trying to help you not waste a weekend.

[zooracer]

Hey madrabbit, I completely understand where your coming from, and this was a really big worry for me.
I did a lot of research on this before going this route. Spoke with people on here, many of whom run a welded on a FWD.
My car actually runs stock, non-adjustable swaybars front and rear.
The only, and I mean only reason, in the end that made me go with a welded was after I spoke with J. Goodale. Mr. Goodale runs a swift in GP and usually runs in the top ten. He is actually running the exact same set up as me, same springs, swaybars, etc. and runs a welded. He recently went to a LSD from england, but said he didnt think he picked up any time.
Also Andy Deatherage, who was running in the top three at the last years runoffs in GP before crashing, also runs a welded diff.
I am thinking it is something special about the suzuki swift that allows this set up to work so well.
I really couldnt tell you what it is...
I do know this. I have driven just about every type of FWD car you can imagine, and nothing spun up its inside front tire like my little swift exiting corners. With a stock motor I had wheelspin in fourth gear corners! And in third gear corners I could smoke it to the belts if I wanted to.
I know they have a relatively high center of gravity for their track width... Or maybe something in the suspension design...
Anyways, in case you hadnt guessed it is a big worry for me that it wont work or will be undriveable. I tried to find a track day beforehand for testing, but just didnt have the time.
matt

[wbp]

I think the Suzuki Swift is pretty unique among FWD cars in that it lifts the inside front wheel in corners. This can make the welded diff the best choice.

[zooracer]

yep, I think your right.

Anyways, I hope it works and I get to do some close racing with other ITB cars.
Anyone have any idea how many ITB cars usually show?

[RSTPerformance]

Wow a bunch of responses since I posted!! Looks like a lot of interest in this race!! I think I have ordered all my repair parts from the ARRC. I'm even going to change the oil for the new year http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif If anyone sees the video for the full course post it here ASAP so we can all learn from it. I won't be able to attend the test day so if anyone is maybe you could helpo a fellow competitor by giving me some more tips when I get to the track http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif I am leaving around 5:00PM on thursday after work and should arrive around 6AM if all goes well. Never made the trip and I can't wait.

PS I am going to run the SARRC since it will save the devision money.


Stephen Blethen
ITB Audi Coupe (Silver/Blue)
www.RSTPerformance.com (http://www.RSTPerformance.com)

[seamus88]

Stephen & anybody not in my class(ITA):0).I have not driven this course yet but I have done 2 of the sections.I would like to have a get together Thurs. night."Maybe" have a few adult beverages and meet other IT.Com people and help each other out and do a track walk.

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by seamus88:
Stephen & anybody not in my class(ITA):0).I have not driven this course yet but I have done 2 of the sections.I would like to have a get together Thurs. night."Maybe" have a few adult beverages and meet other IT.Com people and help each other out and do a track walk.

I can't on thursday night because I won't be arriving until about 6am but Friday night I am definetly going out on track and watching my video to see what I am doing wrong!

Stephen

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by JeffYoung:
- there is a bit of a regional rivalry and (friendly) and we don't liking losing to the MARS boys.



We should get a regional trophy and have some type of points system.... Make the region rivalry even more intense,
It would be interesting to have a race against your friends and at the same time be working as a team to beet the other region. Have the "Fastest IT Region award"

[mgyip]

Originally posted by seamus88:
Stephen & anybody not in my class(ITA):0).I have not driven this course yet but I have done 2 of the sections.I would like to have a get together Thurs. night."Maybe" have a few adult beverages and meet other IT.Com people and help each other out and do a track walk.

I don't believe there's a rolling cooler large enough to supply YOU with enough barley-pops for a track-walk of the full Grand Course. If you'd like, you can following the rolling tangerine around on Friday http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

Matthew
"The General Li"

[seamus88]

I don't believe there's a rolling cooler large enough to supply YOU with enough barley-pops for a track-walk of the full Grand Course. If you'd like, you can following the rolling tangerine around on Friday

nice!

[emwavey]

Glad to see I'm not the only one concerned about coming to a track cold. I downloaded a video of the long course (not the grand course) and have watched it a few times. I figured since the additional 8 or so turns will be slower/tighter, that I'll use my handy-dandy autocross skills to learn it quickly. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

BTW in looking at the track map I counted 33 turns.

I'm not sure, but if I do make it down for the practice day, I'll be toting a camera in the car. I'd be glad to have you guys all huddle around to watch some laps around the track,... as long as you don't laugh too much about how slow I am. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

-dave
newbie in ITA/MARRS
8)

[zooracer]

Well, I guess everyone will be in the same boat here. Although I've never been to VIR period...
I just plan to work up the track. Start from the basics, find the type 1 corners, high speed loss brake zones, and brake markers for that matter, the areas where lots of time can be gained. Then work back from there.
Then go to details like where the FWD line is, any banked corners? Uphill or downhill brake zones? Different pavement patches in corners?
I drive a Black Suzuki Swift and my name is matt if anyone bumps into me in the pits lets talk strategy.
If anyone has the DL-1 data acquistion dealeo I wouldnt mind looking over your shoulder at the lap top (Or we could put it on my laptop). This is my next big purchase.
And it would help with learning the fast way around the track
matt

[Knestis]

If anyone (matt or otherwise) wants to talk DL-1, come see me - white Golf, #42. Mostly, the system is good at showing where I'm slow, so you'll know where to pounce...

Opinions follow:

The most important corners are the slow 4-5 left-right combination (it sets you up for what will be a full-throttle run all the way through "Snake" and "Climbing Esses), and Hogpen (17-17a) - for obvious reasons. Hogpen is faster than it first seems (it IS substantially banked). I'm always surprised at the number of people who choose speed through Left Hook or the 5/5a pair, over speed out of them.

South Bend is my current favorite on the full course. Carrying speed through there makes the approach to Oak Tree a real passing opportunity but you have to plan for it WAY back in 5a, so you don't catch your victim too early.

My blank spot is the 11-14 (South Course numbers) complex because I've missed out on running that end of the track.

K

[Ron Earp]

Kirk,

Not to hi jack this thread but is the DL-1 pretty much the thing to have for data aquistion? I am in the market for one but am still doing research - about where Matt is, my next big purchase will be one of these. Seems like this could help me more than lots of money dropped on other stuff.

Bearing in mind that I would be using this in "NoTec" cars - I don't have OBD-II outputs, sensors, etc. since the cars I race are all carbbed - it seems this unit with not additional inputs would be useful.

Comments?


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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey ITS
1/2 a 260Z ITS

[lateapex911]

Ron, consider the AIM units as well. Especially if you like the idea of saving the money and confusion of a seperate lap timing system, as the AIM units include a very complete and configuarable tach/lap timer/speed/shift lights/alarm lights display. Using the AIM data aq eliminates the need for a tach, and lap timing system as well as other items, which has obvious benefits, as well as being a stout data aq system with good supporting software, and instantaneous tech help.

Check out the threads in the "tecniques" section of this site, or email me for contacts etc.

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Knestis]

I know that there are other DA options out there. Jeremy Lucas is doing some comparison shopping (he posts here sometimes) and made a good point: That you need to decide what you want out of a system before you commit, because each choice brings different features to the table.

I like the DL1 but have still only just scratched the surface of its value as an engineering tool - to make the car faster. I've been focusing on its value to make ME faster, since there is more time to be found, for less money, in the driver than in the car.

K

[Ron Earp]

Jake, what do they have? If you go here:

http://www.aimsports.com/auto/index.html

I see the video mixer and the dash board, but there is no info on the Evo 3, is this what you were referring to?

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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey ITS
1/2 a 260Z ITS

[RSTPerformance]

Just wanted to bump this up to see if anyone else has found any good videos of the track?? I found a motercycle website that has video of the patriot course but it is backwards then video of the south course and the north course. If you peice it all together you can get an idea of how it is!

http://www.teampromotion.com/tpm.php?page_...e_id=tracks_vir (http://www.teampromotion.com/tpm.php?page_id=tracks_vir)

Stephen

Edit...

Here is a better link of the patriot course... It wont make you so see sick!! Still backwards though.

http://www.catseyeweb.com/dinanm3/

[This message has been edited by RSTPerformance (edited May 01, 2005).]

[lateapex911]

Ron-

Sorry! I missed your reply, somehow. (Too distracted by threats from a big Johnson, I guess! LOL) Anyway, go back to the site and click on the MXL.

While it looks like just a "wicked cool" dash display, what you are looking at IS the system. All the sensors plug into it. It is VERY capable. Your laptop plugs right into it, so it's super easy to use.

Also, it is absolutely mil spec...the connectors would be the best connectors in any car, let alone a ..well, nevermind..that was going to be yet another British car joke. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

Anyway, it is a neat unit because you get the capabilities of a data AQ system, AND a tach/shift light display, AND a lap timer with a display.

They seem to be adding capabilities all the time as well, and in a plug in kind of way.

Worth a look.

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Knestis]

Schwing!

There are 18 ITB cars registered for the VIR race as of yesterday!

Most excellent...

K

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by Knestis:
Schwing!

There are 18 ITB cars registered for the VIR race as of yesterday!

Most excellent...

K

take one off the list http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/frown.gif

I was very excited for my release of the redesigned RST Performance Racing Audi but unfourtunatly the new suspension design has some flaws. Major enough that a 14 hr tow would not be a good idea! So the new and improved Audi will not be out until July 4th when we go to Mid-Ohio. ( http://www.cincyscca.com/index.php ) Hopefully before then we will do some testing and build both cars to our new specs. I was excited at our success at the ARRC last year but we still need another second to stay up with those accords and to claim at least 1 track record somewhere in our travels!!

I was really looking forward to meeting a lot of people on the board and especially looking forward to racing against Kirk in his A3! Make sure you post all the excitment and photo's from the event!

Stephen Blethen
NER ITB Audi Coupe

[This message has been edited by RSTPerformance (edited May 02, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by RSTPerformance (edited May 02, 2005).]

For those of us with no race car.... http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/rolleyes.gif

Since they are using the Grand Course, where would be the best place to set up a camper and still be near enough to the pits to go visit with some of the guys I used to race with?
Using the GC, are they using the North Paddock and is there any other camping area close by other than on the outside of the main straight near T1?


This would be my first visit to VIR and I'd just like to know where I'd have to park my travel trailer, and they do allow pets don't they?

[wburstein]

Originally posted by 2Many Z's:
Since they are using the Grand Course, where would be the best place to set up a camper and still be near enough to the pits to go visit with some of the guys I used to race with?

2ManyZs - You should be able to camp along the road heading into the North Paddock, which will be in use. Email me tonight (wburstein "at" mountainmotorsports "dot" net) if you get a chance -- I am heading down tomorrow afternoon.

[This message has been edited by wburstein (edited May 03, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by wburstein (edited May 03, 2005).]

[zooracer]

Yeah, have to scratch another ITB car off the list too.
I got sick, on top of being extremely busy with the business, and wont have the car back together.
I think I need to just let a shop prep the car, as I suck as a mechanic...
Anyways, this sucks, as I was looking forward to leading a huge feild of ITB cars around VIR http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/rolleyes.gif