pro racing

[zooracer]

I was watching the speed world challenge race at sebring and noticed that a Mr. Stretch was running in like 15th or 12th (caught the race in passing...).
Is this the same one who runs a 240Z in ITA?
Is Mr. Stretch's pro career starting to take off, or was this a one time ride with a pro team?
I was wondering if anyone else from IT has gone pro directly from IT?
I know of a couple other guys I saw in the race that got their start in autocross (pobst), and didnt Auberlin get his start in autocross too? Maybe it was another guy in the race who I recognized...
I know it sounds crazy, and probably most guys getting into road racing say this at one time, but I would like to eventually turn pro some day. This is why I had planned on going to a national class at some point, like GP or showroom stock.
I wonder which class (door cars) is the most popular for people moving up. I know John Baucom, who races Trans Am, started in ITB.
matt

[Knestis]

The difference between running a regional ITA program and Speed Touring cars is money. Money, money, and money.

Money for hardware (engines cost as much as a really good IT car), testing, tires, travel (it's a big, freakin' country), and all of the other stuff.

Where it costs me about $300 per hour to keep my ITB Golf on the track, figure 10+ times that for a STC BMW or something similar. And that's probably a conservative estimate: Rental seats were running $5-10K per race, last time I looked.

You'll also notice that the "factory" teams - a la the RTR Acuri - have several mid-pack guys paying the bills with their rental fees, so the fast guys can compete for the win.

A club racing national championship will get you next to nowhere closer to a "pro" ride, if you don't have the scratch to buy it. Conversely, you could be in a "pro" car next year, if you did.

K

[Marcus Miller]

That is the same Stretch; he's run Speed T/C for a couple years now.
Kirk is right, the difference is money.

M.

[zooracer]

Ah, okay, so stretch is paying for his seat. I was wondering if he was a "paid" racer or just renting the car.
I certainly already know about the prohibitive expense of pro racing, and I dont see myself paying my own way anytime soon.
I do know a guy named Chip Van vurst of florida (has a car dealer called "mustangs and miata's"). He has run T1 in a viper at the runoffs along with spec miata in the past. He was also in the race, although he never got much more then 17th I think, and then fell out of the race somehow. He was driving a mercedes. I noticed a couple of other mercedes, but none of them did very well, as in top ten (at least as I recall)
I'll have to call him up at some point and ask if he is renting or being paid...
matt

[Chris Wire]

Give a salute to "Irish Mike" Flynn in the Suburu as well. Mike started in ITB in an Audi and currently runs a wickedly fast Merc 190E 16v from time to time in ITS. Mike is a successful business owner who built and maintains his own cars and runs, for the most part, on his own dime.

For cost factors, pick up a recent issue of Grassroots Motorsports. They did a side-by-side comparo on the front running BMWs from Turner Motorsports in both SWCT and Grand Am Cup. The SWCT car was around $125K and the GAC car about $85K, not counting maintenance and upkeep.

Fear not though, if you have a sponsor whose pockets are deep enough, you'll find a ride to rent. Money is the all the leverage anyone needs in Pro racing. Happy hunting.

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Chris Wire
Team Wire Racing
ITS Mazda RX7 #35
[email protected]

[Geo]

Originally posted by zooracer:
Ah, okay, so stretch is paying for his seat. I was wondering if he was a "paid" racer or just renting the car.

No, Bob is the team owner. So yes, it's his own dime. Bob also owns his sponsor: Wheels America.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Anubis]

Both James Clay and Seth Thomas made the jump from IT to WC.


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Lance Snyder
Atlanta Region F&C

RIP Dimebag- August 20, 1966 to December 8th, 2004.

[JeffYoung]

And James Clay did it the hard way -- using his own business as the springboard. Matt, the only way for most guys in IT to ever see a pro seat they didn't rent is to start a racing/car business a la Bimmerworld and race professionally as part of it. The racing side can help you with the tax impliactions of the business side, and the business side obvously funds the racing side and is helped by it.

But, have Kirk run his day job v. sponsorship analysis by you. I can tell, as the part "owner" of a small racing business myself that unless you are prepared to commit 100% of your time to it, Kirk's equation applies to this approach as well. If you want to race, the best way to do it is to work hard during the week designing/making/selling/suing those who do widgets, and then using the money to race on weekends.

[Knestis]

...and Clay did what he did because he was clever enough to specialize in a marque that attracts "people of means." If he were running "Dubworld," he'd never have attracted the kind of clientele necessary for the jump to the bigs.

Back when Moses had nis Novice permit, we were running the SCCA ESCORT enduro series - much like GAC - and were pitching a sponsorship deal to a sportswear company in Seattle. At one point the CEO asked why we didn't run a Porsche 944 instead of the Mazdas. We explained why it didn't make sense - not competitive in their class, more costly for the same kind of promotional opportunities, etc., etc. ...

He was nice in the way he said "NO" but the next season, he was DRIVING a Porsche for a rental car team, with his company's logo on the side.

What did we learn? Anyone? Bueller?

K

[Bill Miller]

Chip Herr, Eric Curran, and Nick Leverone are a couple of other folks that have jumped from IT to Pro. And from what I remember, Eric had a top 10 at Sebring (6th?). I think Hugh Stewart is another guy that came out of IT. In fact, Hugh Stewart is renting his old E36 BMW SWCT car. I'm sure there are more that race GAC.

But, as Kirk said, all it really takes is money. If you've got the money, and are willing to spend it, you can race Pro. I suspect that you'll find very few guys in SWCT or GAC that are actually hired guns. Most of these folks are doing it on their own dime. Either out of their own pocket (or through their business), or through sponsorship that they developed/aquired. Ever see the ads that say "Seat available for funded driver"? If you've got enough money to bring to the table, they'll let you drive their car.

/edit/

This isn't limited to SWCT or GAC either. Goes all the way up to F1 and Indy Car. Maybe not so much anymore, as the cost are really out of sight, but more than one person has bought a ride at the top levels. Names that come to mind are Hiro Matsushita (Panasonic), and Andrea DeCesaris. I think there was an article in Autoweek several years ago, that Eddie Cheever bought his F1 ride, but I'm 100% sure. Regardless, I'm sure there are others.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[This message has been edited by Bill Miller (edited April 04, 2005).]

[gran racing]

I'd hate to say it, but it certainly looks like there are many more opportunities in roundy-round racing to make it. Yes I know, it isn't the same as road racing...

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[OTLimit]

Bob has been very honest with us about what it has taken to run in WC. And it deals with a lot more 0s then I can afford.

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Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers

[philstireservice]

If you want to drive one the RTR Acura's it will cost you somewhere in the neighborhood of $170,000 for the season.....and you don't get to keep any of the purses. That is assuming you would win any of the purses.. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

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Phil Phillips
2004 Honda Challenge H3
NASA ECHC CHAMPION

www.philstireservice.com

[Bryan Watts]

Originally posted by Knestis:
Rental seats were running $5-10K per race, last time I looked.

It's $20K per race with a top team these days. You may get a slight break if you commit to a full season. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

[zooracer]

yes, I had known about renting a seat. I knew a guy from florida who did this once for a race at daytona years ago (dont remember the series). He said it was a horrible experience. They didnt do a good job prepping the car, there was no help throughout the weekend, etc..
Regardless, I dont have the money to rent. If my business makes enough in the next few years, I may try to run my own car, but this is years away.
I had just noticed some guys I had seen running at the runoffs and ARRC in the pro ranks, but it sounds like they arent hired shoes...
matt

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...said it was a horrible experience...</font>

Been there, done that, far too many times. A lot of us coming from the Club ranks don't understand the reality of the money aspects of pro racing, and we are always looking for a bargain. The seats we can afford are not good ones; the good seats we cannot afford.

As an example, I raced a couple of pro endurance races in '91 (IMSA Firehawk), and neither were good experiences. In the first case the paint on the car was *literally* still drying when the guy showed up at the track with the cars, and we still had to wire up the whole car for lighting. The whole car, as in tail lights, headlights, aux lights, etc. It was a cluster.

In the second case the front brakes literally blew up on me going into the high-speed turn on the back straight at Watkins Glen, and this was before they installed the Bus Stop Chicane. Not only did I come damn close to death, but when I nursed it back to the pits I found that the guy had nothing but used parts to replace it with (to top off the experience I got the 1AM-ish to 4AM-ish stint, run in the rain under full course caution behind the pace car...

When I placed well at the '92 Runoffs I had several offers to drive pro cars, all appended with "...and how much funding are you bringing to the team?" It was about that point I finally 'got it' and decided to take a very long sabbatical from racing. Today I race for fun only, and only within my own financial capabilities. The best thing I ever did was quit racing to get my life and career on track. - GA

[Knestis]

Gee, Greg - have you ever had a GOOD rental experience? http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

K

[Bryan Watts]

Originally posted by zooracer:
yes, I had known about renting a seat. I knew a guy from florida who did this once for a race at daytona years ago (dont remember the series). He said it was a horrible experience.

It's all in who you rent from. If you rent from the right team, you'll have a mechanic dedicated to your car, a pre and post race briefing session to analyze data with an engineer, a car that shouldn't DNF, a lounge to dress and relax in, and all of your food taken care of in a team hospitality area.

Heck, I've even had all of those luxeries on the club level when renting from the right Formula Mazda team. The same team was also happy to provide the same services after I purchased my own car and let them provide the transporatation and track support for it.

If you rent from the wrong team, the mechanic for your car may be YOU. Good luck getting any help with setup on the car, and you'll be changing into your driving suit in the back of the trailer as the fans walk through the paddock giving you funny stares. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

[Racy-Stacey]

The road to running pro seems to be a difficult one. A strugle to near impossibility without sponsorship money or deep pockets in general. I look at it as a challenge I'm willing to accept. Currently I have 4 sponsors helping me out. I dont have any money men helping me but I plan on trying to get some. If you look at most of the cars running pro, they either fully sponspored or have a ton of little sponsors help. That seems to be the road I am taking. Each little piece getting me closer and closer to an almost free season of racing. Getting lots of small money sponsors can equal one large one. In todays ecomony that might be the best route to take, as many companies cant fork out huge sums to teams. Perhaps just asking for a small piece of the pie from lots of companies is the best way to go. In Carroll Smiths book suggests, if you really want to be a Pro racer you have to tottally commit yourself and find a way to finance your career. If it doesnt hurt you arnt working hard enough.

- my 2 cents.

Stacey B.

[bobpink]

Remember hearing about one of Grayson Upchurch, Jr.'s first forays into Pro racing. The team gave him the "junk" car for the money he spent and then he promptly went out and handily outpaced the other two guys in the "good" cars. Made for some unhappy folks. This turned into some good rides for him over the years, but think the well has dried up for now. Marriage to a wonderful wife, a couple of kids and a demanding job might also have something to do with it too.

Best of luck to you Stacey B. and you realize the one thing it really takes that a lot of racers who want to go Pro don't; total commitment. I had the fortunate opportunity to interview Danny Sullivan a few years back and in his opinion "total commitment" was the one thing he saw lacking in a lot of drivers who wish to go Pro these days. But even that is no guarantee of success as a few people in the know have stated here.

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Bob Pinkowski
Atlanta Region SCCA
ITS Honda Prelude