Race of Champions..anyone catch it?

[itbgti]

And how about Heikki KOVALAINEN....this kid (I am not much older) beat Schumacher in a Ferrari and Loeb in a rally car....now THAT is pretty damn impressive. He has an F1 contract already, so I will be one to say watch out....should turn some heads.

Unfortunately the Americans did not fair so well....

Regards,
Alan

[Jiveslug]

What, you mean there is more to racing than standing on the gas and turning left?

[B Schley]

It was fun watching all those great drivers in a relaxed atmosphere. Michael Schumacher is really a great spokesman for Formula 1. He does understand the need to entertain the fans, unfortunately Eccelstone doesn't always... I did like the race better when it was held on the Canary Islands. The stadium circuit was kind of Mickey Mouse. Its amazing how these guys can jump into unfamiliar cars and be quick out of the box. By the way, the Americans won in 2002 with Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon, and Colin Edwards. Mears was in a little over his head I'm afraid, but, considering all he went through to get there, he wasn't too bad. Gordon can really drive anything, as proved by his Williams run at Indy last year. I really wish we could have seen him in F1.

[Quickshoe]

Michael is a very good driver in a very good car with a great team and team orders. That combination is very very difficult to beat. I think there are a number of drivers that are at least as tallented if not more so, they just don't have the same platform to make it obvious to the rest of us. It was nice to see him get his ass handed to him on an even playing field.

How many quarterbacks posted great numbers because they had great receivers? How many quarterbacks were actually better but didn't have the rest of the components in place?

I don't think it takes much tallent to drive a cup car, but I do realize that most of the NASCAR drivers were successful in other forms of racing on their way up, where it did take some tallent to excel. So most of them are very good drivers who followed the money and opportunity to do what they loved for a living, the skills are just a little rusty.

Heck, Mears looked scared in the 360, forgot what it was like to drive something that accelerated when you asked it to, stopped when you put some pressure on the middle (left in the 360 Modena) pedal and actually turned in when you thought about it. He probably had to make a bigger adjustment than just about anyone else.

I believe the fastest lap before a penalty for brushing a hay bale in the chicane went to Tony Kanaan.

[jhooten]

Just for conversations sake, what would be the result if you put Micheal in the Williams BMW and Ralf in the Scarlet Harlet? Same DNA, same back ground. If the places were reversed would Ralf be the greatest F1 driver ever and poor Micheal be a consistant mid-packer fighting for his job?

[BMW RACER]

If Micheal was a real man he'd retire from Ferrari, race for Minardi for free (not like he needs the money) build a new team (with Micheal at the wheel Minardi should get plenty of sponsor $$) around himeself and lets see if he can win a race then. That would make him a real Hero.
John Norris

[Quickshoe]

I think a number of professional drivers when put in place with all the right pieces would shine like Michael.

[B Schley]

I agree that there are drivers out there who are capable of being as fast as Michael. The difference is Michael's ability to build and rally the team around him. As stated before, that is a combination that is tough to beat. Would Michael be as successful without Ross Brawn? Probably not to this extent. Ralf may be as quick, but, his personality is such, that the team is not as willing to really work for him, that is the key. Also, black helicopter theory, it was kind of ironic that the Finland car broke in the team final allowing France to win... I don't think Alesi could beat the Finnish kid (sorry I can't spell his name) in a straight up fight.
--Bill

[lateapex911]

That was much cooler than I expected, considering the autocross nature of it.

The kid looks awesome..VERY adaptable.

Good point on MS's ability to form a team around him. Benneton was nothing when he joined them, and then he was able to rally them and quickly talent collected. Then a World Championship.

The "coincidence" of MS joining Ferrari, and the rise of Ferrari to supreme dominance cannot be understated...not a coincidence!

And often he has formed winning strategies while driving. He might not be the best "car control" driver...(but he's close!), but together with his other attributes, there is probably no team in the world that wouldn't sell the farm to hire him. But none have a large enough farm....

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Hracer]

Heikki Kovalainen's the man!

The fact that he beat *both* the best regarded FIA rally and F1 drivers in this prosolo type event is quite imppressive and (I hope) it will bring him more attention (aka $$) in order to further develop himself since he clearly has potential.

Having said that I don't doubt that Loeb is the significantly better rally driver or that MS is significantly the better F1 driver, since they are far more experienced in these types of cars that are extremely difficult to drive at full potential in their respective venues compared to the Champs of Champs event. I agree with what MS said that the smallest mistake around that course can cost you the victory in this type of event. I would think so especially if you’re much more used to other racing disciplines. For the same reason I also believe that if PD and Randy Pobst would have represented team USA at this event, they would have done better. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if one of them might have even won the event as well. If they are not a couple of the best at autocrossing/road racing (even rallying in PD's case) drivers, I don't know who is. But then I don't think it would have been PC to send these guys over some of the top Nascar boys... http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

Regarding MS, I also believe that he is not the fastest 1 lap driver out there, or that he has the best car control skills, or that he’s quickest on cold tires, etc.. However he is almost the best in all categories both on and off the track. That’s why I do think he is the best driver overall when you add everything up, and it’s the reason why he has achieved such success at both Benetton and Ferrari.

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Alex
#90 ITA

[This message has been edited by Hracer (edited December 17, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Hracer (edited December 17, 2004).]

[Anubis]

I wonder if anyone else other then Nascabbers get invited to go over there. I'd love to see a team of Auberlen and Leitzinger.

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Lance Snyder
Atlanta Region F&C

RIP Dimebag- August 20, 1966 to December 8th, 2004.

[Bill Miller]

I only caught the end of the race, so I don't have much to comment on. I am glad that I'm not the only one that doesn't see MS as the greatest driver in the world. He may be very talented, but he's certainly no sportsman (the stunts he pulled on DH and JV punctuate that!). He can rally a team, but make no mistake, Ferrari's dominance has been orchestrated by RB and JT. There are probably 10 - 12 drivers (maybe more) that could do as well or better than MS, were they given that ride. Just look at RB, do you really think that he's that good?

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
......He may be very talented, but he's certainly no sportsman (the stunts he pulled on DH and JV punctuate that!)....

When it comes to "stunts" nobody holds a candle to the little weasel Senna.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> He can rally a team, but make no mistake, Ferrari's dominance has been orchestrated by RB and JT. </font>

[/B][/QUOTE]

Except that MS was largely responsible for the hiring of many of the important "brain trust" personell, and also nearly singularly responsible for the attainment of the sponsor package. In the early days at Ferrari, MS's role was much larger, and he strategized wins from the cockpit, in a way no other driver has in recent history.

He is probably the most well rounded driver, team leader, strategest, and spokesperson, although he might not be at the pinnicle of any particular skill subset.

If it wasn't for MS, there would be no Ferrari team that could have another driver "inserted" as you suggest.

[pgipson]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> don't think it takes much tallent to drive a cup car</font>

I would say it takes as much (or perhaps more) talent to drive a cup car well as it does to drive any other car well.

[Bill Miller]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> don't think it takes much tallent to drive a cup car</font>

Not sure how I missed that. I really don't expect this kind of attitude from other racers. Uninitated fans, yes, but not people that have actually been on a track and seen what it takes to drive well. Look at Steve Kinser. The guy can wheel an 800hp Outlaw sprint car w/ the best of them, but couldn't do squat in a Winston Cup car. Think it's easy to wheel a WoO sprint car at 140+mph around a half-mile dirt track?

There are some drivers than can just flat out drive anything you put them in, and do it well. There are others that are very good in their chosen venue. There are also plenty of people w/ very large check books that shouldn't be driving lawnmowers, much less race cars.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Eagle7]

Originally posted by pgipson:

don't think it takes much talent to drive a cup car

I would say it takes as much (or perhaps more) talent to drive a cup car well as it does to drive any other car well.
Yeah, seems like the RR "ringers" are nearly always looking through the windshield at the cream of the NASCAR crop on the road coarses. Just because they make their money on roundy-rounds doesn't mean they can't drive.

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Marty Doane
ITS RX-7 #13
CenDiv WMR

[Quickshoe]

Guys/Gals I said "it doesn't take much tallent to drive a Cup car" I didn't say "those who drive cups cars aren't tallented" big difference. In fact, read my next sentence in that post.

Having driven several different types of cars (Winston West on a 1/2 mile was as close to driving a Cup car as I have ever been). I can, with 100% certainty, say there are many other cars that require more tallent than a Cup car (on an oval) to drive quickly. The WoO example above would be one.

The easier a car is to drive at/near its' limit the more people you will find who are capable of doing so. Therefore, the less tallented one must be to do so.

[Bill Miller]

The easier a car is to drive at/near its' limit the more people you will find who are capable of doing so. Therefore, the less tallented one must be to do so.



Daryl,

Not trying to be nit picky, but you have to throw cost into the equation. Cost is probably a larger barrier to entry than talent. Granted, Cup cars have gotten pretty damn pricey, but there's some mega sponsorship dollars out there to offset that. It's one of the reasons that you pretty much only see multi-car efforts anymore.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Quickshoe]

Bill,

I am doing a poor job of explaining myself.

Less tallent required to drive it, not less tallent required to get the opportunity.

Tallented in obtaining funding is a much higher neccessity than tallent to drive.