New Guy needs some advice

[Newbie]

Hi All,

After getting addicted to driving in DE's this past summer, I want to take it to the next level. I did the 3 day Skip Barber racing school, a lapping day, and 6 DE's in a BMW M Roadster. I had a DE instructor that ran ITS, and I think its where I'd like to go.

I still plan on doing DE's to get track time, but plan on racing a few times too. I've been talking to people, and everybody has different opinions. I'm looking at Porsche 944's or 2nd generation RX-7's.

I know the BMW's are fast in ITS, but they are pretty expensive. Seems liek RX-7's are a good value, and I guess I've always wanted a Porsche.

I had someone say the 944 will blow up every other race, and the RX-7 is high maintenance. The guy at the race shop says the 944 is reliable and needs to be freshened every 80 hours or so. My instructor has had the RX-7 for years and it has been maintenance free (pads, tires, fluids excluded).

Who do you listen to? Can anybody confirm or deny these myths?

Thanks

[Knestis]

The biggest favor you can do yourself is to decide what your budget for the year is, post it here, and let a lot of people who have screwed this game up in the past tell you what you can afford.

Since THAT'S not going to happen, I'll let people with firsthand experience with the cars on your list provide feedback.

Have fun!

K

[Geo]

I haven't heard anything about the 944 blowing up a lot. It does have some oiling issues that need to be addressed with baffling and perhaps an Accusump. That said, it will not be competitive in ITS. The RX-7 however is competitive.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[dickita15]

hi newbie
where are you located
dick

[JeffYoung]

I run a slow ITS car, have a blast doing it. Kirk is right, best thing to do is let us know what you can spend and we can direct you in the right direction.

A built 325 (you can probably find one for 15 to 20k) should be reliable and will be competitive. RX7s are cheaper and nearly as fast or as fast. I think both are as "reliable" as a race car can be.

There are a couple of 944 and 924 in the SEDiv, and even a 924s in ITS and a new 944s. George is right, the base 944 is probably not a top contender, but the 944s might be. However, building one of these cars is going to be expensive.

240z, Integra GSR (ifyou can stomach front wheel drive) and 240sx (Second Gen) are al competitive as well.

YOu have to decide what you want I guess. If you want to win, spend big $$$ on a well prepped 325is. A proven winner is going to cost you $25 or $30k or more.

If you want to build your own, I'd buy a 2nd Gen RX7 or 240z and slowly build it up. Lots of easy go fast knowledge out there on them. You can probably build a decent one for $20k.

Best balance of cost and comptetiveness in S is probably to buy a midpack but reliable RX7 or 240z (Zs are a bit trickier to drive) for $10k and spend a few grand sorting the car and then the savings on seat time. Seat time is what matters for the first few years anyway. Your DE events are great (I started my track life via BMWCCA DE events myself, in an M Coupe) but racing is a whole different ball game.

So, tell us more about what you want, and what you like. YOu like working on the car? Or do you want to arrive and drive? You like to win? Or are you fascinated with a particular marque?

[jcmotorsports]

newbie
i am a relatively new racer also, this season was my second season. i have a pretty well prepared 2nd gen rx-7. i had the car built from the ground up and really spared no expense. THE MOST IMPOTANT THING TO PUT IN A CAR IS SEAT TIME!!!! my car is fast, but i am not and my race results show that. this year i am concentrating on improving the driver. take my advice: spend as much time behind the wheel as possible!! that will improve lap times more than any go-fast goodie on the market!!!!! no matter what car you choose.
john costello

[jcmotorsports]

oops
thats IMPORTANT not impotant http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

[Newbie]

I'm in the Milwaukee, WI area.

I'm looking at sharing a car, and I plan on spending 8-10,000 for my share. I'm planning on buying an already built car. The RX-7 is a Speed Source built, and the 944 had the suspension done by the local Porsche Factory affiliate shop, and a Millage (sp?) motor.

After the initial purchase, I'm thinking 2 or 3 sets of tires (If I can get 10 sessions on Toyo's but Hoosiers get 5 and are faster, I'll opt for the Toyos as I learn). Brake pads, fluids, and fuel. I don't know what my "budget" is. I don't plan on traveling far, so hotel costs and travel expense will be minimal. Entering DE's is usually $175/day and I think races for Midwest Council cost about $140. MC has single day events within easy driving distance. I'd like to get on the track 10 to 15 times in 2005.

I can swap brake pads, but engine work is over my head.

Thanks for the input.

[Tom Blaney]

Originally posted by jcmotorsports:
newbie
THE MOST IMPOTANT THING TO PUT IN A CAR IS SEAT TIME!!!!
john costello


CONGRADULATIONS FOLKS!!! WE HAVE A WINNER.......

Finally I have heard somebody actually listen to us old guys for a change. Stops spending all your budget on the go fast parts, and buy some track time. Most of the go fast parts are trendy and not any faster than the fast parts, and you will blow your budget in no time.

The absolutly most valuable thing you can do as a new driver is to go out, HAVE SOME FUN, and accept the fact that your inexperienced, that's all. If you try real hard and watch the faster guys (even the ones that are only a little faster than you) you will learn more than you think and suddenly will be passing people. You won't be cheating with illegal pistons or questionable cams a few years into it because you will have talent, not just a bigger budget.

Tom Blaney

[JeffYoung]

There we go, that's what we needed to know.

The "safe" choice is the RX7. It will be fast if setup right, and is fairly reliable. The 944 will probably be nearly as reliable but, once you have driven for a few years, not as fast as a maxed out RX7.

GO WITH TOYOS. My first year in ITS, I bought a set. 5 race weekends, total tire bill for the year: $600 (6 tires). This year, 12 race weekends, like $3000 on Hoosiers.

Toyos are good, durable tires. Good tire to learn on.

Then, for your budget figure:

1. Entry fee ($175 or so a race).
2. Brake pads (say the last 3 races), $300/set all four corners.
3. Gas ($50)
4. Other things that will brake and money will be spent: $200

You probably want $2000 set aside for repairs (mechanical and body) as well.

There you go, have at it and have fun.

[Speed Raycer]

Take a good long look at sharing a racecar. There are pitfalls around every turn. If someone invests $10 more than the other guys, sooner or later that person will consider himself the majority. Make sure everyone else is on the same page as far as what to modify, what parts to purchace, when it's time to upgrade etc.

If I did the "share" thing again (which I don't think I ever would), each member would put the same amount of money into some sort of account for fixing/upgrading the car. Each member would have their own set of wheels, own tires, own pads, own trailer etc.

It's a slippery road (especially if there's ever an accident), but some people have managed it well, others have been burned (can you take a guess which class I belong to? http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif )

------------------
Scott Rhea
It's not what you build...
it's how you build it
http://www.izzyscustomcages.com/images/IzysLgoSm.jpg (http://www.izzyscustomcages.com)
Izzy's Custom Cages (http://www.izzyscustomcages.com)

[planet6racing]

I'm in Milwaukee, too (actually West Allis, near 60th and Lincoln). Send me an e-mail to the address below and I'd be more than happy to get together with you and go over everything.

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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

[ddewhurst]

Newbie, now that we know your from the Milwaukee, WI area why don't you give us a first name.

I also am from the Milwaukee area. 1985 Mazda 1st gen RX-7. 2000 through 2003 Spec-7, 2004 partial conversion to ITA/7. 36 races with 6 open practice dates with zero 12A rotary motor, clutch or rearend issues. The transmission is great if it's treated well. I have had one transmission go south.
Toyo's are great. If you would like to talk look in the phone book & give a call. I live on 67th Street in Tosa.

Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David Dewhurst

[dickita15]

just what i was hoping for, see who is racing at the tracks you will go to, find a car that there are 5 people you can go to and ask a question about a problem or bum a part.
dick

[lateapex911]

There is a LOT to be said for Dickitas point....
When your radiator seems clogged, Dick has one..
When the ol cooler develops a leak, Dick has one..
When your trailing arm looses its custom made spacer, Dick loans you a fresh pair.

Guess how I know these things! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Newbie]

Well, I did it! I put an offer on the RX-7 and it was accepted. I did this without any partners, thanks in part to comments on this board, and in part to watching the E prod runoffs on Speed TV this weekend. I'd kill the guy if he did that to my half!

My name is Steve, I'm in Brookfield, and I appreciate any input. I'll remain "newbie" until I get my competition licence (other than the Skip Barber one I have).

Anyways, the car was built by Speed Source, the guys that won the Grand Am series in 2004 in RX-8's. The setup is complete, so I will not "NEED" anything else in terms of go-faster accessories. Just lots of seat time. It has a few races on the motor, comes with an extra gear box (that is supposed to be the weak point of the car...besides no torque), all log books, canisters for the reservoir shocks incase ITS allows them in the future, and about 20 tires. Needless to say I'm very excited.

If my wife finds out, she will be a little upset since we are still in the discussion stage. She's concerned about insurance, any ideas???

I need a trailer, I'm thinking open since it's lighter, and want to pull it with my Mitsibishi Montero Sport. I need storage too.

So, where do you guys go for track time? I'd like to get out early and often in 2005.

Steve

[John Herman]

Gingerman raceway has lots of evening practice days (once the snow melts http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif). Also, I believe they have various HPDEs. Additionally, one of the SCCA driver schools will be at that track.

[B Schley]

Newbie/Steve-
Congratulations on your choice. The RX-7 is a very good choice. There are some very fast 2nd gen. ITS SCCA guys around here, Rich Walke comes to mind. By the way, I live in Waukesha and run an ITA Honda Crx. Maybe we need a get together of all the Milwaukee area guys on this board. I hope the wife is OK with the decision, but, that is another issue.... If you have questions, you can shoot me an e-mail too. I'm more that happy to talk with new people and help them along with the process. Regarding a trailer, get an open one, its cheaper and will provide less wind resistance when towing with the Montero. I also recommend the load leveling hitch which you can get locally at Ultimate Truck Accessories. It makes the tow much easier. Good Luck, and we'll see you at Blackhawk or Road America.
--Bill

[Quickshoe]

Originally posted by Newbie:
If my wife finds out, she will be a little upset since we are still in the discussion stage. She's concerned about insurance, any ideas???


http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/eek.gif http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/eek.gif http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/eek.gif

I see you are one of the forgivness vs. permission types. Well, at least you posess one of the better attributes many successful racers have: fortitude. Hopefully in time, you'll develop good decission making skills http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif too.

Congratulations on the purchase, hopefully when she finds out you don't have to choose between her or the car...you might miss her. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

On track insurance during a competitive event???? Try Parrish...let us know what you find out.

[B Schley]

Newbie-
In case you can't get it I will post my e-mail (please guys don't blast me with spam):
[email protected]
Let me know if you have any other questions.
--Bill

[Mike Spencer]

Originally posted by JeffYoung:
GO WITH TOYOS. My first year in ITS, I bought a set. 5 race weekends, total tire bill for the year: $600 (6 tires).... <snip>

Without breaking any posting "rules", are there places people would like to recommend on WHERE to get Toyos? I will be attending the February double-school at Roebling Road (Savanna, GA). I have two sets of well-worn Hoosiers and a set of Toyo "rains". I want to pick up 4 or 6 shaved Toyos beforehand.

Thanks, in advance.


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Mike Spencer
NC Region
ITA/7 RX-7 #60
1990 RX-7 Convertible (street car)

[JeffG]

Originally posted by Newbie:
Well, I did it! I put an offer on the RX-7 and it was accepted.

So, where do you guys go for track time? I'd like to get out early and often in 2005.

Steve


Welcome to ITS!! At least Rich W. will have another RX7 to play with next year, If I sell my car. If I don't, I suspect I'll see you at some point!

Midwestern Council http://my.execpc.com/~mcscc/
runs a full race series as well at BFR, RA, Gingerman, etc. if you really want lots of seat time.

Feel free to emial me
Jeff Giordano
[email protected]
RX7 #67 (also SS)

[gran racing]

Insurance - are you talking about life insurance at the track? If so, shhhh! I did find it odd that my wife had a sudden interest on working on my car and my hub snapped off in turn one. Hey!!

Like others have said and will continue to say over, and over again, track time AND learning the right stuff is key. It is so much more cost effective to spend money on yourself then on the car.

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[Knestis]

Originally posted by Mike Spencer:
Without breaking any posting "rules", are there places people would like to recommend on WHERE to get Toyos?

Do some shopping around but I'd bet that philstireservice.com can get them to you for less dough than anyone else.

Order them fully treaded (Phil doesn't shave) and take them to Hall Tire (Greensboro) to have them trimmed down to whatever degree you want. They charged me $10 each for the service and they WILL mount and balance tires that they don't sell.

K

[bldn10]

"Anyways, the car was built by Speed Source"

Steve, whose/which car did you buy? I have a SS car too and kinda like to keep up w/ them. Maybe someone should start a registry.

[1stGenBoy]

Big Bear tire in Oconomowoc can help with tires.Call Parish Insurance for a quote on race car insurance(pretty cheap). There is a guy in new berlin next door to us that has storage space for rent.I also have space in Glendale for rent. I can give you many other local sources for stuff you might need.
Stop in and get your saftey equipment before the prices go up in Jan. I will be at the PRI show wed-sat and be back at work on mon AM.
I also do the SCCA Novice Licensing so, if you need the forms for that let me know and i'll bring some along to work. Call if you have questions.

Bob Clark
Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies
800-688-6946 ext 1225
414-254-5702 cell

[Newbie]

Originally posted by bldn10:
"Anyways, the car was built by Speed Source"

Steve, whose/which car did you buy? I have a SS car too and kinda like to keep up w/ them. Maybe someone should start a registry.

I bought the Blue and Yellow # 47 from Rich Walker, some guy named Buzz used to own it. Rich moved on to RX-8's and runs with the Speedsource team. I think I got pretty lucky, since he's giving me 20 or 24 tires, 14 wheels, an extra gear box, and sending it to Speed Source to have them make sure all is in order before it ships. I spoke with Sylvain Tremblay, the owner of Speed Source, and he vouched for the car.

Maybe I can get the Cub Scouts to sponsor me? If I could figure out how to post a picture, you'd see what I mean.

Thanks,

Steve

[Mazmarc]

I too can vouch for any Speedsource car. I know the men and the cars pretty well. The "some guy named Buzz" is Buzz Marcus. He is fantastic to be around. He has racing stories that are truly amazing. He is also very fast and consistantly wins races, despite his "advanced" experience.:>)

If I could figure out how to paste a photo here you, could see Buzz battling Kip VanSteenburg driving Nick Leverone's car at Sebring a few weeks ago.

Enjoy that car. You will have loads of trouble free track time with it.



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Marc Dana
#63 ITS Mazda Rx-7
#77 STS BMW 325I

[Mike Guenther]

My car is fast, I am not. Buzz just blew by me in qualifying a few weeks ago with Kip on his tail. Those guys are FAST. Buzz is a legend. Kip is gonna be one someday too. I just wish I could have stayed close enough to Buzz and Kip to learn something. The class was over quickly.

Happy Holidays everyone