Online Tire Shoppers...Fair Warning!!!

[itbgti]

I have been purchasing non-race tires online for about 5 years (Tire Rack) and have had great success...however, times are-a-changin.

I just purchased snows, and went to have them mounted...FIVE places would not even touch the tires...most were effective August 30, 2004 (No Tires Purchased elsewhere will be mounted/balanced, etc). Two additional places wanted to charge north of $200. I finally lucked out and called a distant contact and had them done for $100.

I don't know if this is something widespread, but I thought some would like a fair warning...check local tire shops first, armed with online prices, and some may match it now.

Regards,
Alan

[Greg Amy]

It's becoming a more common ploy, Alan: they don't want you buying tires from anyone else and bringing to them for mounting. Sure, they'll *claim* it's a liability and insurance issue, but it's not; it's really a non-competitive way of trying to force you to buy tires from them.

Each time I'm faced with such an attitude I make it clear to the shop that they are removing any possibility of doing business with me in the future. It even happened to me at my tractor supply company! The guy could not supply the tires I wanted for my lawn tractor, but when I brought him tires that I bought mail order he refused to mount them. I let him know he'd lost all future service, repair, and parts business from me; he was non-plussed (even rude) despite our long relationship. <shrug>

The best tactic is to use the on-track facilities available at your races. I make it a point of buying my Hoosiers from the track guys, and of course I'll never have any mountingproblems. If, for whatever reason, I need other tires mounted, my ongoing business with them assures me good service.

An alternative tactic is to deal exclusively with installers listed on Tire Rack's web site. Those dealers have pledged to accept shipments of tires from The Rack and to install them; should one of those dealers choose to over-charge you, you can leave your feedback online to keep it from happening to others.

This issue will continue to grow unless customers demand otherwise...

[Joe Harlan]

Now for the flip side of this. As a small business owner I have to make some sort of profit to keep my doors open. When I sell a tire I may make 10 to 30% depending on what tire. I had to purchase the tire equipment that will mount your custom mags and have them updated every year. I pay for the electricity for the lights and compressor and then I have to pay the high cost of business insurance because if the tire you bought at or below my cost fails you will most likely name me in the law suit. So even if i charged 200 bucks to mount that one set of tires I would likely be loosing money on the deal....Getting a discount is not always what saves you money and if you ask how many of my customers the benefits of buying local and the number of free hours of service they end up with in return I think you would find it is a bonus to do business close to home.

[ddewhurst]

***So even if i charged 200 bucks to mount that one set of tires I would likely be loosing money on the deal....***

Someone that met Joe at the Runoffs this year asked me if Joe has a serious bone in his body & my response was, NO.

Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David

[dtheracer]

I have to agree with Joe on this one. Like a lot of grassroots racers,I've had to get and have received a lot of "help" from local people who do things for racers because they like racers and like racing. I've been charged $300 for a job that the public would pay $600 for. I've had a simple formula-they say $300 and I give them $350-they are schocked and happy and I don't have to worry about them rolling their eyes when I show up needing a favor. And I support them on my street purchases and I send people to them
Price isn't everything. We live in a time when everyone wants "the best price" or 'the best deal" yet we complain about job outsourcing to foreign countries. When a $2 better price on a pair of jeans is more important than an American job or the welfare of a local dedicated merchant we are in trouble.

Dave Piasecki
#2 ITA (totally wrecked at the ARRC/Pro-IT

[lateapex911]

Around these parts, nobody gives a rats ass about racing...just pay up sucker!

That said, I have a guy who is very convenient and does great work who will accept my race tires. It costs me, but at least he does them.

My trackside experience has been mixed. The guy up north could hardly care, and has even moved all my stuff so he could use my paddock spot when I was on track instructing for the club. A lot of "B%^ls he has. He told me he needed the spot, he's trying to make money. jolly good...but it's not like he was performing charity work!

So, no business to him ever again from me. Not that he impressed me before that incident.

The guys from Tenn..Appalachian Tire..Hoosier Tire South..WOW! What a difference! Talk about wanting to do business with someone again! I learned a lot from them, they were TOTALLY helpful, on time, friendly and easy going. Made me want to move South! (Interestingly, he knew of the Northern guy and admited the reputation wasn't favorable)

I buy my tires from tire rack, as they heat cycle, and I don't have a lot of wheels nor track time. It seemed like an expediant way to me, but it was explained that the cycling Tire Rack uses really doesn't duplicate a proper heat cycle....

So, next year is a question....I hear the Manchester guys are good, and mount for free....

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Diane]

Originally posted by lateapex911:

That said, I have a guy who is very convenient and does great work who will accept my race tires. It costs me, but at least he does them.

We have a local guy as well. We buy all our snow tires from him and we both send him multiple leads. I'll buy my next set of summer tires from him too.

That said, he can't get any of the tires we race on (he actually tells us to go to Tire Rack etc as that's where he'd buy them) but he will mount and balance anything we bring him. Sometimes we pay full price, sometimes he says "it's all set". Either way I'm glad he's around.

Is there a local garage you can deal with as well? I'd think they'd be a little more willing to work with you rather than a "Town Faire Tire"-type shop and maybe you can slip them some other business (or referrals) as well.

Doesn't everyone you know think you know everything about cars and always asks you where you get things done or buy them? http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Oh! BTW a friend had told me that they have found out that people won't install less than 4 snows on a car anymore, and they put the best pair of them on the rears (no matter what the drive wheels are). I believe this was at a large tire chain.


Diane

[dtheracer]

The guys from APP Tire are great and they treat you the same (good) whether they are mounting their Hoosiers or your Kumhos from Vilven or TR. We are lucky to have them here in the SE!

Dave Piasecki

[Joe Harlan]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Someone that met Joe at the Runoffs this year asked me if Joe has a serious bone in his body & my response was, NO.</font>

Hahaha Dewhurst, At least I don't feed the crew boxed pizza and make them sleep in sani cans......lol

The other thing about doing business with the little local guy is this. When it comes time to clear out dome inventory every year. the guys that have been loyal and helped me survive always get first shot at what ever discounts I can offer and there is always hot coffee in the coach.....even for Dewhurst and his Honda pals.

[racer-025]

I have my own tire machine in my garage. Us racers have to stick together. If you all were closer to me - I'd mount them for free....

I've been racing for well over a decade. Over the years myself and my racing buddies have been trading off services with each other. It has obviously kept costs down and we have been able to race those early years on shoesting budgets. I'll mount your tires for a favour sometime...

[This message has been edited by racer-025 (edited November 17, 2004).]

[apr67]

I took my tires to Walmart and got them mounted, no problem.

I support the local guy if the local guy is worth supporting. I support the track side vendor if they are worth supporting.

I never support suck a$$ companies, regardless of location, if I can help it!

As for mounting. I the less rich sections of town are often tire stores that only sell used tires. They will generally mount just about anything!

[Diane]

Originally posted by apr67:
I took my tires to Walmart and got them mounted, no problem.

I wouldn't consider Walmart a "local guy". http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/rolleyes.gif

[This message has been edited by Diane (edited November 17, 2004).]

[JohnRW]

Question: Do their employees commute in from Arkansas every day ?

I think not.

[This message has been edited by JohnRW (edited November 17, 2004).]

[lateapex911]

Are you saying something bad about the fine folks from AK?

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Are you saying something bad about the fine folks from AK?</font>

What's Alaska got to do with this?

(grin, duck, run)

[lateapex911]

hmmmmm...ok GA, don't make me go look up st. abbrvs, eh?

isn't eerrr, uh oh...yea...what IS Arkansas? Alaska=AK, Alabama=AL, Arizona =AR...right?

well, you get the idea http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/rolleyes.gif

LOL

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[x-ring]

Um, actually Arizona is AZ. I think Arkansas is AR.



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Ty Till
#16 ITS
Rocky Mountain Division

[JohnRW]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
Are you saying something bad about the fine folks from AK?



Actually, no...I was trying to make a point that Diane's comment about Walmart not being 'local' misses the fact that the people working there are 'local'. It's quite fashionable these days to bash large companies for all sorts of 'sins' that seem to be overlooked when committed by some small local schmoe.

Enough social commentary. Isn't this supposed to be about racing ?

I made 'friends' with a local repair shop. They get my street tire purchases, they service the vehicles where I work, their staff borrow my beater open trailer when they need to bring home a new toy...and I get to use their tire mounting stuff. It's all about relationships, kids...smile and be friendly...and vote with your wallet.

[whenry]

When I can I use the local guy ie tow vehicle, wife's vehicle, trailer tires, but he cannot usually get me the performance tire that I want on my street Miata, Maxima or racecar. So he doesnt get upset when I show up with something to be mounted that he didnt sell me. He knows the deal. His guys dont like the 17"s that went on the Maxima and really cuss when you show up with any R tire due to the stiff sidewalls(you should have seen them strain on RE-71S's)that slow them down but they do like to talk racing so long as you are respectful of their style of racing. As I tell folk, dont be afraid of Bubba; he can help you out if he wants to.
YMMV

[racer_tim]

You should watch the local tire guys try to mount / un-mount my slicks?

Talk about the line in "Days of Thunder"

"You guys looked like a Monkey phucking a football"

I'll NEVER let them do that to my wheels / tires again.




------------------
Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[bg43wex]

I feel the need to chime in on this one.

I have owned a repair shop for 15 or so years and the most important thing to remember is we make our money through parts profit and labor, if you subtract one then the other side HAS to increase in order to keep the proper profit ratio in check.

The internet has really cause grief for shops like me.just because you found a way to purchase your parts at my cost does not mean you are entitled to have them installed at a cost that will cause my shop to loose money does it?

If you bring a hamburger to a restaruant do you expect them to cook it them discount meal because you brought your own supplies?

customers who supply their own parts are charged a labor cost that is 30% higher, very rarely do peole have a problem with this.

On the other hand we don't feel the need to interject when a customer has diagnosed the problem then purchased the parts. At that point we are installers and only take responsability for the work/install completed.

Just my .02 from a shop owner

brian m

[apr67]

Brian,

I'm sure you are a reputeable shop owner. I'm sure because I am sure I don't want to offend you (or anyone else) and I don't know you.

But I have had my fill of professionals these days who just want to rip me off.

Send my wife to get some recall work done on her honda (we will never own a honda car again) and they want to sell injector cleaning, and all the rest of this crap.

I called them, read them the riot act, and finally got the recalls done.

Or the local shop that told me my alignment wasn't bad, my tires were worn in one direction and the only way to fix it was new tires.

I do it myself because its a little cheaper, but mostly because I know its done right.

Alan

[dickita15]

yes alan and I remember working in a alignment shop when this old coot brought his chevy in. the guy running the rack told the customer he could not align the car because it had a bad balljoint. the guy went nut said that we were all crooks and that he had broughtthe car to 3 alignment shops and all three tried to sell him ball joints. the customer is always right is just an expression, and if you call some one a crook long enough he might start acting like one
dick

[lateapex911]

I'll never forget the time in Rochester when I worked in a gas station for a little extra college funds, (and use of the WARM garage and cool lift) when a woman came in with some old snow tires to mount.

OLD snow tires...like BALD snow tires.

I mentioed that I would be happy to mount them but that she should seriously consider new ones that might actually function as designed..

I was labled a crook...the boss just shook his head and told her we'd just mount them for her and so she left.

Upon her return, she called me a dumb idiot kid...I had mounted the snow tires to the FRONT of her car, when EVERYONE knows they go on the BACK!

After much discussion, she signed a "I insisted on this" paper, and left the shop with them on the back, (at no charge..at my insistance, to limit our "involvement"). She drove away swearing about all the idiots of the world, in her VW Rabbit.....

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited November 18, 2004).]

[Diane]

Originally posted by JohnRW:
Actually, no...I was trying to make a point that Diane's comment about Walmart not being 'local' misses the fact that the people working there are 'local'. It's quite fashionable these days to bash large companies for all sorts of 'sins' that seem to be overlooked when committed by some small local schmoe.

I consider "local" to be a local small busines owner (who probably also employees local people). While Walmart may provide jobs to locals, they are by no stretch of the imagination a "local" company in that sense.

Combined with the typical employees found in places such as this, turnover etc, they have no reason to be loyal to you and could care less if you bring them business, rather than the true small businessman we were discussing.

I prefer to deal with people rather than corporations. Hence I like to support local businesses.

Any local schmoe that does me wrong doesn't get my business anymore either.


Diane

[JLawton]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
in her VW Rabbit.....


LOL!!! I had coffee out the nose on that one!

I pay $60-$70 for a local Tire Rack installer. I leave them for a couple days so they can work on them when there are no other customers. I'm not looking to get the mounting for free!!

Brian M,
What do you think is a fair cost to mount a set of tire where you can make a little money?

------------------
Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi

[This message has been edited by JLawton (edited November 19, 2004).]

[itbgti]

Wow...did not know this thread would get such a passionate response.... http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Just so I am clear, I firmly believe in supporting the local small business (my father owns a truck rental/repair garage in Danbury CT), however, when online prices were SOOOOOO low, selection was greater, and even paying the higher mounting prices, buying online was the way to go, saving as much as $200. Now, if you re-read my original post, I stated that we should now check with local stores first, armed with online prices. Many of the "local" shops that would not touch the tires said they would have matched the online price (plus shipping) and possbily mounted/balanced for free.

So, back to my original point..FAIR WARNING to online tire shoppers....check the local guy first, his/her prices can now beat/match online ones.

[BUMPnGO]

Hmmmmm....just got back from Used Tire World here in Orlando...20 bucks net for mounting and balancing two Hoosiers...you might try a used tire shop next time

[Davis]

I buy my race tires from Tire Rack. The tires for my truck, trailer and wifes car are purchased from a local tire store. They appreciate my business and are therefore happy to mount my race tires for a very reasonable price.

------------------
#63ITB Rabbit GTI

[Greg Amy]

I see a theme running through these responses, and it's primarily "customer service", "customer loyalty", and "relationships."

Having worked within the auto repair industry (car dealerships' service/parts) I know what it's like when you get some sponge walking in with a part they want you to install. A lot of the time they'll want it installed quick and cheap and then you never see them again.

However, a lot of time that stuff can be a good loss leader. An example is the guy that works on my light airplane. I bought my airplane used, and the first thing I needed was some paperwork signed off (an Airworthiness Directive that did not apply to my airframe.) I was referred to the guy and, after meeting him, asked him if I could schedule an appointment to get the signoff (I told him it did not apply, so it was a paper-whip.) He read the AD, took my logbooks and signed them off on the spot, then didn't accept any money. With that act, he got himself a customer for life and I've never had anyone else work on my ship (of course, he had to back it up with good service).

On the flip side, over the last 10+ years I've watched him work with sponges on a consistent basis; there are a lot of cheap-screw pilots, just as there are racers. I'll watch this guy give them the same good initial service as any new customer, but if they turn out to be sponges (like having him do all the crap work but take the meaty stuff to cheaper places) he'll kindly, but firmly, find subtle ways to discourage their business.

I believe that while a lot of folks are cheap screws, most customers are interested in good service, and a good price, and are willing to pay a reasonable price for it. When that happens, the shop will enjoy that customer's long-time business.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that good relationships are a two-way street. My experience, and the experiences of others related here, support that idea. Hey, if you're a racer and you're finding it hard to get a good place for your business, maybe you should look inwards...

Greg

[almracing]

I have been buying my tires from TireRack for quite a while. I have had my street tires mounted at a BJ's and local guys.

Now that I am in northern NH, I use a local shop, Progressive Autoworks. VERY racer friendly (runs a Harley F150 at autocrosses). His balancing machine has a pressure roller to simulate tire/road forces. Makes for a great balanced tire. He doesn't even mind the Hoosier race tires. (A previous tire mounting shop said "I won't be upset if you don't come back").

So there are guys out there, just have to look.

Anthony R.
#86 NER CRX

[SamITC85]

Another place to try is Sears Mart, or is that K-Sears, or Sears Auto Center. They do any race ties, I believe $10 per tire for mounting and $10 for balancing. Plus you get some entertainment watching them mount the hard sidewalls.

[JohnRW]

Originally posted by Diane:
... Combined with the typical employees found in places such as this...

Wow...must be a long view down that nose, huh ?

[bg43wex]

Originally posted by JLawton:

Brian M,
What do you think is a fair cost to mount a set of tire where you can make a little money?



Jeff,

my shop charges $18.oo per tire for mount and balance. basically it's 1 hours labor for 4 tires. we could do other work and make more but I feel the need to offer this service to my customers.

brian m

[lateapex911]

Jeeez, Brian..I need to move up your way!

I think the local shop (from whom I have purchesed two sets of LARGE truck tires) charges me 20 to mount, 5 to balance and 3 to throw away...28 x4 is 112, plus 6% for about 120, ....

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Greg Amy]

Jake, we've got a guy in Wallingford that mounts and balances a set of Hoosiers for $60, cash only (he owns the joint).

[Bill Miller]

Last set of street tires I took to my local guy, he charged me $8/tire to m&b, and that included peeling the old tires off the rims. He charged me $15/tire to do the ones on my truck, including pulling the wheels off the truck. I asked if he minded that I got the tires elsewhere, and he said not at all. I've never talked to him about mounting slicks. He's got an old Coates 40/40, and I don't know if it'll handle slicks.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[pgipson]

There's a Discount Tire on just about every corner in Phoenix, and I have used the same one for years for all our family tire needs. I had a new set of Michelins put on the truck last week and verified they still do "outside" tires. I took my new Toyos to them on Monday and $60 later I had all 4 mounted and balanced with new metal valve stems, and they hauled off the old tires. It has never cost more than $60 for 4 , and once 4 (M&B) was free

[philstireservice]

Originally posted by itbgti:
Wow...did not know this thread would get such a passionate response.... http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Just so I am clear, I firmly believe in supporting the local small business (my father owns a truck rental/repair garage in Danbury CT), however, when online prices were SOOOOOO low, selection was greater, and even paying the higher mounting prices, buying online was the way to go, saving as much as $200. Now, if you re-read my original post, I stated that we should now check with local stores first, armed with online prices. Many of the "local" shops that would not touch the tires said they would have matched the online price (plus shipping) and possbily mounted/balanced for free.

So, back to my original point..FAIR WARNING to online tire shoppers....check the local guy first, his/her prices can now beat/match online ones.

Yes Alan this is a true statement. It is possible to find a tire guy/shop who can be competitive with the online tire purchases. It helps if you are independent and have been doing it for near 30 years......

------------------
Phil Phillips
2004 Honda Challenge H3
NASA ECHC CHAMPION

www.philstireservice.com

[RSTPerformance]

First I would bring my tires to a "racer" to get done to support their efforts (Brian M or Phils Tire Sevice to name a couple) however if you are in the sticks, like me, and their isn't anyone close then try BJ's... We have one about 5 miles away and they charge $12.00 for a mount and balance, and yes they did many of our Hoosiers 225/50/14's on a 6" wheel (what a bitch) without any complaints. I think the tire guy thought it was cool cause they were race tires. Never had any issues, and if the tires did get damaged then they are insured, or would pay to get new ones.

Raymond