PCA's

[RR]

I called Topeka last week to ask what the deal is with weight adjustment for next year. (ie will they add weight for cars too competitive) I was told they have discussed and decisions where made, but he'd rather not tell me in person. Rather wait until Fasttrack for ruling. What's the big secret here???? Does anyone know what is going on? This is holding up many plans to building cars for 05.

[planet6racing]

My opinion is that the SCCA wants to follow procedure on all of this to avoid some of the pitfalls of the past, where they mention something, people run with it, it gets distorted/changed/whatever, and then everyone is mad at the SCCA.

They know that by following procedure it is going to piss a few people off, but, hopefully, it'll be far less than otherwise.

Again, just my opinion. I'd probably do the same thing in their shoes.

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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

[ITSRX7]

What car/s are we talking about specifically?

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[RR]

no car in particular. Will this new rule be add weight to all cars (ie all RX7 or bmw etc) or will it be hit the winner so he carries more weight next time. You have certain cars doing very well in their class, like rx7 that have broken every track record in the NE.

[JeffYoung]

Andy, one question for the Board. One thing that was not clear to me from Fastrack was whether the weight adjustment occurred one time only after a year's competition by a new car in the first year after the PCA rule came into effect, or if ANY car could petition for a weight adjustment.

To be up front, as you know, I've got a car that was probably classed at the right weight initially in the 80s but is a bit uncompetitive at that weight (and I could get it lower) now. Will the Board entertain requests to lower weight/move cars to another class for cars that have been weighted and classed for many years?

Thanks Andy. Really appreciate the presence of people who make decisions on this board. Very helpful.

Jeff
1980 ITS TR8

[ITSRX7]

Originally posted by RR:
no car in particular. Will this new rule be add weight to all cars (ie all RX7 or bmw etc) or will it be hit the winner so he carries more weight next time. You have certain cars doing very well in their class, like rx7 that have broken every track record in the NE.

It's a big-picture deal. Trust that the ITAC and the CRb can look beyond Regional results and find and correct the issues.

Any changes will be done to the cars, not the drivers.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[ITSRX7]

Originally posted by JeffYoung:
Andy, one question for the Board. One thing that was not clear to me from Fastrack was whether the weight adjustment occurred one time only after a year's competition by a new car in the first year after the PCA rule came into effect, or if ANY car could petition for a weight adjustment.

To be up front, as you know, I've got a car that was probably classed at the right weight initially in the 80s but is a bit uncompetitive at that weight (and I could get it lower) now. Will the Board entertain requests to lower weight/move cars to another class for cars that have been weighted and classed for many years?

Thanks Andy. Really appreciate the presence of people who make decisions on this board. Very helpful.

Jeff
1980 ITS TR8

Jeff,

Great question. While we don't want a free-for-all request flurry, I will say this:

I think the ITAC would welcome well-founded requests for adjustment. Something like this would be how I would do it.

Dear ITAC,

I would like to ask the committee to look at the minimum weight of my XXX. Currently classed in IT(blank), it seems to be very heavy. The current core group of class leaders Nationwide have an approximate IT-prep power to weight potential of xx to xx. A weight reduction of xxx would bring the XXX much closer to the pack than the current situation.

List of top cars....
Specs for my car...
Proposed specs for my car...
***************************************

What I wouldn't want to see is requests for 25-50-75 lb weight reduction. If the car is THAT close, it's close enough. This ISN'T Production. Our goal ISN'T to try and bring everyone within a tenth of a second. That task is too daunting and way to hard to manage. IMHO (other ITAC member opinion may vary) the goal is to bring the highs down and the lows up - effectively shrinking the performance pocket in a fair fashion.

Does that make *ANY* sense? http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[JeffYoung]

Absolutely clear, and thanks.

I think the V8 stigma will keep my car out of ITA and frankly, I don't think it belongs there (on the same logic that 944s don't either). But if I could be allowed to run at 240z or Jensen-Healey weight (and it is possible I think), of say 2300 or so as opposed to 2560, I think a lot of my braking issues and such would go away.

We'll see. I'll probably make the request BUT, hell, I'm having fun at 2565 (that's what I run at with 2 gallons in the car) -- just don't tell anyone.

And hey -- I see you are building a Miata too, very cool. A buddy of mine and I split the costs on one and had it on track for the first time last weekend. I love my TR8 and it will always be my race car of choice, but the Miata was a lot more fun than I expected. We plan on running it as an enduro car, and renting it out some next year.

How is yours coming along? What plans do you have for it?

[Geo]

OK, first of all, people are asking about something we don't even know 100% for certain it has been accepted. How in the world can we comment on that?

Second, even if it is accepted by the BOD, there have been zero plans on specific implementation. There is no sense in doing that without the PCA approval in the first place.

Let's not get the cart before the horse.

Most of the questions being asked here can be answered by rereading the proposal that was published in Fastrack.

The philosophy behind PCAs is not to level the playing field. It's to give the ITAC the tool to correct egregious errors. Don't be surprised to find most requests for weight adjustments to be denied. There is still no guarantee of competitiveness. I would expect only the worst errors to be corrected initially and great care taken in making these adjustments.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[ITSRX7]

Jeff,

Drop me an e-mail.

andybettencourt (at) hotmail.com

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[This message has been edited by ITSRX7 (edited September 14, 2004).]

[Tristan Smith]

I tried this on another forum, but perhaps it's better asked here.

Kind of a generic question for any of the ITAC folks.
How early can someone request a car classification? I have a 2002 model in mind and I would love to start the build process now, so that it might be ready by the start of the 2007 season. When is "too early" to request a classification? Knowing that the proposed PCA's could be a factor in all of this I would hold off probably untill the first of the year anyway. But what's your thoughts on this or the rule?

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Tristan Smith
Buffalo's Southwest Cafe
ITA Nissan 240sx #56

[ITSRX7]

Tristan,

PCA's shouldn't have any affect on the initial classification of a vehicle. By definition, they are "Post Classification" or "Performance Compensation" adjustments.

I wouldn't think the CRB would do much work on something that wasn't eligible...but send it to me at the above e-mail and I will give you one man's opinion.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[This message has been edited by ITSRX7 (edited September 14, 2004).]

[Bill Miller]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Don't be surprised to find most requests for weight adjustments to be denied. There is still no guarantee of competitiveness. </font>

George,

Nothing personal, but this is really a crock of shit. Everyone deserves the same shot at getting the weight set on their car, via the new process, that a newly classed car gets.

Andy,

I agree that 25# adjustments are probably slicing things a bit too fine, and 50# may be as well. But, I think anything above that should be given serious consideration. And while your form letter is nice, is that really the way you want things to go? Do you want people speculating on what the p/w factors are?

I'll offer this as a suggestion. Publish the p/w factors for each class. As far as requests for adjustment, I think they should be along the lines of "Please compare the current spec. weight of my car to what it would be, were it classed today, under the new process. If there is a significant (say >50#) difference, please consider adjusting the weight of the car."

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