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zracer22
07-20-2004, 08:02 PM
This post is intended to start a debate, I just want to share some real world results with everyone. But feel free to debate. :-)
Some of you know about GTS Challenge www.gtschallenge.com (http://www.gtschallenge.com) and our Lbs/RWHP rules. There has been talks about adding weight to the E36 in ITS, and there have been those that are for it and those that are against it. 8 times this season Ihave raced my 2630lb E30 325is against 3000+lb E36 325is. All cars have been built per GCR IT rules with the exception of minimum weight on my car which was achieved by gutting the car. I've raced against E36 ITS bimmers at Summit Point, Gingerman, Putnam Park and Beaverun. In the E30 vs. E36 battle, the wieght to power ration works very well. The E36 is still quicker on the straights. The much lighter E30 is faster in the corners and both cars are equal under braking. Lap times are almost identical. The cars that I'm comparing are equally prepared, better than average, but not BimmerWorld cars either.
This in know way constitues a scientific study, but it does show that 200-250 pounds won't cripple the E36 or make it go thru tires and brakes like crazy.

One other thing, the E30 M3 in the 2950- 3000lb range is very equal to these cars. The Porsche 944S at 2850 fits in well also. (So does the Audi A4 1.8T)

ITSRX7
07-21-2004, 10:36 AM
How do you measure the hp/weight? Is it per car using a dyno at the track or is it using some formula?

Top 100% prepped E36 cars are making tremendous power. 40+ more WHP than a 100% prepped RX-7.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

zracer22
07-21-2004, 12:36 PM
So far, the dyno process has been quite informal. So have used the trackside dyno and some have brought dyno results to the track. Others have never been dynoed. We allow entrants to make their best estimate of RWHP. Estimated or dynoed, all cars can be protested. All protest will be decided with the dyno, scales and a calculator.

chuck baader
07-21-2004, 03:01 PM
I'm not saying the SE division cars are faster http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif but the fastest I have seen an e30 at Road Atlanta is slow 1:44s. The fast e36 cars, that passed tear down ran 140+ and a couple are expected to dip into the 39s this year. Time will tell.

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Chuck Baader
#36 ITA E30 BMW
Alabama Region Divisional Registrar

Mike Guenther
07-21-2004, 04:18 PM
why arn't all e30 325's classed together? Down here I've seen the ITA 325's consistantly faster than the ITS 325's. They are both e30s. I know that these particular ITA drivers are very good and that accounts for some of their dominence, but shouldn't the e30 325iS also be in ITA? The e36 325s are beyond a doubt faster than the e30s. The Mercedes 190 is the fastest ITS car I've seen in Florida.

ITSRX7
07-21-2004, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Mike Guenther:
why arn't all e30 325's classed together? Down here I've seen the ITA 325's consistantly faster than the ITS 325's. They are both e30s. I know that these particular ITA drivers are very good and that accounts for some of their dominence, but shouldn't the e30 325iS also be in ITA? The e36 325s are beyond a doubt faster than the e30s. The Mercedes 190 is the fastest ITS car I've seen in Florida.

Mike,

I would chaulk that up to being Region-Specific.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

lateapex911
07-21-2004, 08:14 PM
I think the original post carries some [i] very [/] interesting info.

But specificas are important..."3000 + lb E36s"??? How much "+"... exactly? And what RWHP, exactly??

Point of comparision, word on the street has the top dog E36s putting over 220 down at the wheels in legal IT trim...

Good points regarding brakes, handling, etc.

Also, another point regarding the E30 ITAs being faster than the ITS versions.....often folks really put a lot of effort into development if they feel it will pay off....if the car is sooooo far from the front, development is often just not pursued, as the owner sees no point, and just races for fun.

Does that Merc go to the ARRCs? I do remember seeing a few fast Mercs there...but they weren't at the very front, as I remember....

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]