Question for the married drivers..... [Archive] - Improved Touring Racing Forums

Jiveslug

11-11-2003, 08:26 PM

Well, that time is finally upon me. I have found the perfect girl and am getting married in May. I have to admit that the whole marriage, family thing is pretty sweet. Im loving every minute leading up to our wedding. However, a thought has occured to me in recent weeks. How in the hell am I gonna convince my new wife to allow me the funds to race? Granted, this is definately not a deal breaker in regards to marrying her (now that would be just stupid), but my other life-long dream (the one aside from marrying the perfect girl) has been to race. Thus, Im curious to ask those of you out there who are married/life partnered/whatever how you get the spouse to give the money aspect of racing the green light?

Jive

Diane

11-11-2003, 08:41 PM

Hi Jive, you've been quiet lately! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Since Tim & I met racing, our issue is more of whose car gets the money.

But the first question for you is: how long have you known her and surely she knows you are working on a car now? So that part shouldn't be a surprise. What does she like to do? Make sure if she has a hobby or anything that she enjoys, she doesn't have to put her enjoyment aside for your car.

I know the guys here will have a lot of interesting suggestions for you. There was a similar thread not long ago. Have fun and congrats!

http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Diane
ps - even as a racer I have a hard time spending money on my own car at times. They say that happens when you get older and more responsible??? http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/tongue.gif

[This message has been edited by Diane (edited November 11, 2003).]

whenry

11-11-2003, 08:42 PM

Does she know about this dream? And are you expecting her to make sacrifices for your hobby? My wife sent me to my first driving school(Skippy) but eventually told me that she did not want my racing affecting her standard of living. So several of my "toys" were liquidated including the street Porsche and hunting guns to buy race car, tow vehicle, etc.
The best advice I got from another(divorced)racer was to keep the wife happy at all costs ie stay in good places; eat at good places and let her spend $$ in retaliation. I have been racing for 15 yrs now and am still married. You will just have to find places to cut corners in your personal budget ie lunches, drinking, whatever.

jc836

11-11-2003, 08:44 PM

Been there and can safely say that you need to have the funds in your own name. This assumes that there are 2 incomes and yours is primary for the overall cost of living as a couple. Her income can be factored in if you want, but make sure that both of you understand what all of this means-BEFORE starting on a racing project.
I promised my first wife, before our son was born that I would quit and I did for 30 years. I was truly concerned about being here for him and her. When we went our separate ways, I retained custody and only after he had left home did I resume my interest in the sport as an active part of my life.
I am now "life parrtnered" with a wonderful lady. She is my crew chief and helps with much of the economic side of the sport-keeps the wallet in check. She has her own income and contributes to the overall care and feeding of the relationship. See where I am here. We share expenses, with much of the house and all of the race car falling on me.

I hope this gives you a little insight into at least one of us who spends time on track enjoying our sport. Be very sure your special/perfect lady knows what this is really all about. Having her involved in every aspect can be good for the relationship-example locally was a couple who both raced identical cars prepared by the wife many years ago. In case she has an arguement on the subject-it will relate to the infamous "boats are holes into which you pour unrecoverable amounts of money."

Again congrat's and good luck with the endeavor.

Jiveslug

11-11-2003, 09:36 PM

Hey again. I should have mentioned in the first post that she does indeed know that I have a passion for racing and that it is my dream. I just want to make sure, was mentioned by whenry, that I keep her happy. I totally understand that she is my partner though life, whereas racing is my hobby. I even got her to commit to being "grease-monkey girl." lol. However, Im sure there will be many discussions about money spent on racing vs. something else (house additions, etc) and I wanted to see how you all handle that. I already sold my Dodge Stealth Twin Turbo, so you know Im dedicated to this whole marriage thing. lol. She felt really bad about that too... I think she does understand my racing addiction. Anyway, like I was saying, just wondering how you deal with the disagreements that pop up. Thanks for the responses!

Jive

P.S. Diane, I have been quiet because Ive been so busy with wedding stuff, working, etc. Its a lot of work to get married, but it seems well worth it!

Knestis

11-11-2003, 09:48 PM

Having gone through this process over the last year, I can tell you firsthand...

1. Be honest - this is what will make you happy. You do NOT need to say it but, if she really cares, she'll want you to be happy.

2. Be honest some more - don't sugarcoat the cots and do NOT sneak anything in terms of $. I know lots of guys who figure that if they just kept their wives in the dark on how much it was actually costing, they'd be OK. WRONG. The settlements made racing look cheap. Make a budget and stick to it and remember that time is valuable, too: If you are gone every weekend she'll want a new hubby. Er, hobby.

3. Be honest some MORE - tell her that, if it comes down to a choice between her and racing, you will take her. And mean it. If this is one of those deals that becomes a competition to see who will win out, quit now and don't marry in the first place, 'cause it won't last.

4. Make enough money to afford to do it without it impacting the rest of your life. Of course, that should be a rule for all racers and is pretty much universally ignored...

Congrats!

K

Speed Raycer

11-11-2003, 10:22 PM

No matter how much the future wives think they're ready for the car hobby, they never seem to truly prepared. You'll get blindsided one day when you come in all greasy with a feeling of great accomplishment only to be staring down the barrel of a pissed off wife http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif .

Make sure she has her own hobby or something that she likes to do on her own. When you're wrenching on the car you definitely don't want her waiting around for you to get done. BTDT.

Like someone else said, be honest about the money spent and expect to spend the same on anything else.

I'm trying something new this year... for every dollar spent on racing/cars, equal $ goes into a savings account for vacations/etc. This will do two things.. it keeps me in check (basically doubles the cost of my racing) and keeps the wife happy. Sometimes, thats tougher than building the car!

------------------
Scott
It's not what you build...
it's how you build it

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/rudder_racing/images/RX7_Pictures/SRsRX/SRsRX7.jpg

racer14itc

11-12-2003, 12:06 AM

Here's how we do it.

1. First and foremost, make racing fun for her and make sure she is part of it. Go to a nice restaurant during the race weekend. (The food at the racing "socials" is NOT dinner!). Don't assume she won't understand racing terms and duties. Hand her a stopwatch, tire pyrometer, tire pressure gauge and teach her how to use them! Don't be disappointed if she's not interested in driving or racing herself, that's OK. Just make sure she has fun too!

2. Make your racing $$$ YOUR money and her money hers. In our household, we pool our take-home pay each month and split it evenly. All household bills, expenses, etc., then are shared and each person gets to keep what's leftover. You can spend it, save it, whatever. This way, you can bring home that new kerflooten valve and show it off with pride, not sneak it into the garage when she's not looking and hide it. (Be honest guys, how many of you have done this?).

3. DO NOT EVER RACE ON CREDIT. I have seen TOO many racers driven from the sport racing on the VISA card trying to keep up with the really rich folks. It's a fools game. If you can't write the check for it, don't buy it. If you start going crazy with the plastic, you'll eventually pay the piper in so many ways. It's better to finish mid-pack and be financially solvent than go broke trying to win. Remember we're racing for trophies here, not million dollar purses.

My wife's hobby is show jumping horses, which can also get expensive so we both realize that discretion is the better part of valor!

Congratulations on the wedding, Jive!

Mark Coffin
#14 GP VW Scirocco

P.S. My wife helped me write this. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by racer14itc (edited November 11, 2003).]

Fleetcare

11-12-2003, 01:01 AM

The trick with marriage is to own your own company!

I have a friend who does and his wife has NO IDEA of how much he spends on racing! Realisticaly he spends about $40k a year.. His wife doesnt know about any of it..

It works for them.. But as the old adage goes.. Honesty is the best policy

Richy Gonzalez

11-12-2003, 02:52 AM

Just as many others have said, be honest. Also, I personally put our family and house first before the racecar. This makes the wife happy and having a happy wife is so much better to deal with. Also, when she get's to drive a BMW 540i to work, there isn't too much that she can say http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

...I hope she never gets to read this post!

------------------
Richy Gonzalez
GB Racing - #24 ITA CRX (http://groups.msn.com/TheGonzalezFamilyRichySheilaandNyah/projectitacrx.msnw)
LAMIN-X Protective Films (http://www.lamin-x.com)

[This message has been edited by Richy Gonzalez (edited November 12, 2003).]

gsbaker

11-12-2003, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by Fleetcare:
The trick with marriage is to own your own company!...

Or work in the racing industry.

Gregg's wife: "How much did that thing cost?"

Gregg: "Don't worry honey, the company bought it." http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

------------------
Gregg Baker
Isaac, LLC
[email protected]

7racing

11-12-2003, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by gsbaker:
Or work in the racing industry.

Gregg's wife: "How much did that thing cost?"

Gregg: "Don't worry honey, the company bought it." http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Heh...Do you need a contractor, Gregg? Just something to show that I work for you? http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

I started racing before I got married, but I was dating/living with the women I married when I started. She knows how much racing means to me and how much I spend. We have an understanding that the house/bills come first, and if we can't afford the house, I can't afford to race. I don't complain about her spending money on herself (nails, hair, shopping) and I try to save off some money so it doesn't affect the house budget. There are so many little things that need to be done, they all can't possibly be counted.

How many allow the wife/life partner/GF to decorate the house for the holidays (ALL of the holidays)? Just keep saying "I have a racecar in my garage...."

Oh, and when you can afford it, buy a nice enclosed trailer. Mine is a house on wheels. The wife really likes that.

Jeremy

JIgou

11-12-2003, 01:12 PM

A lot of good advice here....stuff I'm paying close attention to, as I'm getting married at the end of December.

A couple weeks ago we sat down and discussed our budget for the upcoming year overall - everything from home improvements to a new truck for me to racing to fertilizing the lawn.

We took a realistic guess at how many races will be done and put the numbers together.

She was shocked at the amount spent per weekend, and overall....but, once over that shock, accepted it. We dump all of our money into one account and pay everything out of there.

For the past year and a half, she's been at the track with me every time I'm there. (Well, except maybe 2.) She times me, checks tire pressures, and helps with hospitality. (This would be race crew hospitality - we usually paddock with 5-10 other SMs, so there's some good social stuff that happens, too.) Just added radios to the mix, so she can talk to me. Moral of the story: she's included in the fun.

Although I have good friends that are at the track and help me greatly, I WANT her there with me, helping me.

NOTE: she MAY NOT consider changing a transmission in the rain as "fun."

We've had several of her co-workers, friends and family members come to the track to visit and watch; she has a good time telling them about everything happening.

Aside from that, she has hobbies she enjoys; she loves to golf, so I struggle along whenever time permits. She also enjoys making a home out of our house (decorating, gardening, etc), so I support that as well.

The new BMW she's driving doesn't hurt either. (Is this a theme???)

Jarrod

PRO7

11-12-2003, 02:22 PM

Even though this is for karters it still applies:

http://www.ekartingnews.com/news_info.php?n=2020

------------------
Ed Reich
Cal Club - SCCA

gsbaker

11-12-2003, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by JIgou:
The new BMW she's driving doesn't hurt either. (Is this a theme???)

Jarrod

Jarrod,

Yes, I believe there is a theme here. BMWs tend to make for happy wives. Not to get too far off topic here, but the conversation went something like this…

Wife: “You did what?!!”
Me: “I traded in the SUV for a station wagon.”
Wife: “Why in the world did you do that? The SUV had every option in the book.”
Me: “The ride was terrible, the mileage was worse and it refused to go around a corner.”
Wife: “But I hate station wagons. Mom had one when we were kids. A big Ford with fake wood on the sides. It was so embarrassing I swore I would never drive one.”
Me: “You’ll like this one.”
Wife: “No way.”
Me: “It’s a BMW.”
Wife, after a long pause: “Really?”

She is a marvelous woman and we get along extremely well, but, as you have probably figured out, there are some elements of our marriage we keep separate. Cars are a good example. She buys hers with her money, I buy mine with my money.

I’m no expert on this subject, but I believe decisions in a marriage regarding racing should be made consistent with how other important decisions are made. Some couples are most comfortable if they mutually agree on every detail and maximize their time together; others leave themselves room in the budget and on the calendar for individual interests.

The wife and I have our vacation time together of course, be we also make time for private trips. For example, my wife loves to travel and her main passion is cooking (that’s fine with me, because I love to eat), but she wouldn’t be caught dead at a race track. I’m talking high-end, gourmet stuff a la the Cordon Blue School in Paris, which she has attended. Now she’s researching cooking schools in the Tuscany region of Italy. If she goes, we will schedule it such that she will be learning the nuances of Northern Italian cuisine while I am at a race track eating a hot dog. Everybody’s happy!

(Then again, isn’t the Ferrari factory in Tuscany? Hmmm.)

As others have mentioned, be very honest with each other and err on the side of caution when putting together the budget and the calendar.

------------------
Gregg Baker
Isaac, LLC
[email protected]

whenry

11-12-2003, 07:00 PM

Im not sure how some guys do it but my wife requires that she be able to go to any race that I run. The only exception so far has been a test day. I dont mind since we do most everything together anyway and she has tried real hard to be involved in the racing(she is not real big on bleeding brakes or clutch though since it requires her to sit in the car and she is not comfortable in the seat)including timing, parts running, radios, etc. She is not the most patient person in the world so I do try not to inconvenience her schedule with car work ie the 2 hr Sat project that becomes 5 hrs.
I cannot imagine the separate life scenario that some marriages have.

Wayne

11-12-2003, 07:41 PM

It took me awhile to get my UPS lady trained to put the packages of racing parts down in front of my shop, as opposed to right in front of the entry door to the house. Safety issue you know, wouldn't want the wife tripping on any of those packages now would we? http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Actually, things are pretty straight forward in our household. One of my other hobbies is competitive pistol shooting. The fact that my wife can shoot circles around me with not only her weapons, but every one of my pistols as well, pretty much keeps me in-line on budget issues... http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Wayne

Scott Nutter

11-12-2003, 09:57 PM

I find that planning the race weekends well in advance works well. Also like others have said, I have a budget and keep to it, roughly. I just started racing 2 years ago, but we have always camped, so hanging out in a field for the weekend is not a problem, and we always consider the food at the social to be dinner! We did have to upgrade the motorhome this year cause the old one did not have a dinnette or walk around rear bed! It also helps when we spend our aniversary in Barbados instead of watching the Runoffs.

My only advice would be to always remember your interest in racing might not last a lifetime but your mariage should.

From a guy who has just recently past the milestone of being married for more than half his life!

racer14itc

11-12-2003, 10:46 PM

I guess what I should have said was the food at the social does not count as a "nice dinner out."

http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

MC

Festus E. Simkins

11-13-2003, 12:19 PM

I have to agree with all that has been said. The way we do it is:

1. We TRUST each other unconditionally.

2. We have a family checking account and each month we both put X amount into it to cover living expenses. If we had extra expenses in a given month she tells me to put X extra dollars in the account. She puts a like amount in the account. I have never questioned the extra amount she asks me to put in the joint account. She pays the bills. If I ran extra stuff up on the credit card for my own personnal use she tells me how much and I cover that above and beyond the usual expenses.

3. We each have our own separate checking accounts and spend our own money any way we want too. No questions asked. She wanted a mink coat. She had the money and she bought it. Now that doesn't mean I don't buy her nice things for birthdays, annaverseries, etc., because I do and I don't skemp on the gifts, even if it cuts into the racing budget.

4. Our unwritten rule is she can spend as much on herself as I do on the race car.

5. My wife does not really like to go to the races. She says it makes her nervous. However, we schedule to do things together. Sometimes it something we both like to do, e.g., go the antique auctions, trip to the mountains, etc. Other times it is something only she really wants to do. Go grocery shopping, shopping for cloths, etc. Sometimes the the things she wants us to do together interferes with the racing schedule. Most of the time she wins. It makes her happy to see that I will sacrafice something for her. Women like that. She has also done the same for me.

5. The family comes first. Both of our outside intrests are second.

This works for us. The main thing is TRUST.

Drive well.

BUMPnGO

11-13-2003, 02:25 PM

How I do it:

During my 12 yrs. of racing, I've always maintained a "no fee" Racing Acct. at the local bank. I drive a "beater" that's been paid off for 10 years and put what would be my "new car payment" of 250 a month into the Racing acct. The beater is an old Honda that I've put about a 100 bucks in over 5 years (don't drive it much and work at home). My wife drives the nice SUV and the only requirement for her is that it has to double as my tow vehicle on race weekends. If she's not going, I rent her the 9.99 weekend car from Enterprise. I also went out and got a couple guys to sponsor me just for stuff they would normally give away to vendors. It all adds up. I've had a $500 trailer for the whole time that's still get the job done( and is still worth $500). Last year, I got only 5 weekends instead of the 6 I had planned due to the budget. So I had to skip the last race. SOOOOOOOOOOO sad!

BUMPnGO

11-13-2003, 02:29 PM

One other comment...NEVER let a Birthday or Christmas get upon you without being TOTALLY SPECIFIC with your loved ones which part or apparel item you need!!

whenry

11-13-2003, 03:48 PM

I will add that the only complaint that I've received in the 15 yrs of racing is that all of our vacations seemed to have a racing connection( ie extra days in Savanah/HHI area after Roebling Road) so I now have to do at least one extra trip per yr with NO racing. Luckily the prohibition does not include videos or Speed Channel.
Just remember the mantra: keep the wife happy and you will survive.

itbracer6

11-14-2003, 01:17 PM

HIDE THE CHECKBOOK THAT PAYS FOR THE RACING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

brakesalot

11-14-2003, 10:24 PM

BE HONEST with her! That's my best advice! Don't be like my ex-husband who lied about buying race cars, trailers and a host of goodies for the car then hid them at our business that he never wanted me at and couldn't explain where all the money was going while sitting at the accountants office. (now I know why).

Then he found a girlfriend(one of many in our marriage) at the track who has him working on her car and funny thing fetching her coffee *lol*(even though I shared my enthusiasm for racing by getting my license and loving racing and was good at it). He was not honest about many things in our marriage and that will be the first thing to KILL a marriage.

Just be good to her and she will be good to you.

Best of luck!

Scott Nutter

11-15-2003, 12:22 AM

I did think of one more thing.

You can put racing on the back shelf and forget about it for a couple of years, walk back, get interested again, say Hey, and pick up right where you left off... Not so with a spouse!

And I will agree whole heartidly with racer14itc, do not do this or any other hobby on credit, it just doesn't make sense!

MMiskoe

11-15-2003, 12:29 PM

When sending her out on the track, make sure the lugs are tight on all four wheels, not just three.

When she tells you that the car won't turn left so well, check it out, don't just shrug and tell her the set up favors the right.

When pricing up seats, don't ask how wide it needs to be for her.

Get a racecar for her and make sure it is the faster of the two.

When she sends you off to buy a parts car and it isn't as good as it sounded on the phone, bring it home anyway. ("But we NEED those parts Matt!!")

Don't buy new tires for yourself and send her out on last years hockey pucks.

My wife races too, but everything that has been said by others still applies. Gotta keep her happy, gotta be honest, gotta put family/house expenses before racing. Having her race allow her to have a much better understanding of how, why, how much, etc than she would if she didn't drive. Having your other half "on-board" is a requirement.

almracing

11-16-2003, 11:16 PM

I too have had family changes this past year and the weekends racing dropped considerably... but as you spend more years racing you see it often. Racers ebb and flow with the money and responsibilities. Like everything, racing becomes another item budgeted, for money and time.

Also good to have the spouse involved. My wife loves to remind me that she is the last one to tighten the lug nuts... Doh!

Anthony R.
ITA #86 NER
Honda CRX Si
www.LisaGardner.com/author (http://www.LisaGardner.com/author)

m3ltw

11-17-2003, 03:42 PM

Here's my suggestions:

Keep your relationship balanced and honest. It helped that I entered the marriage with a race car. BUT, I have sold 2 cars (M3 LTW race car and an SUV) to cover my costs.

Also, make sure she always gets what she wants. Don't make her commute in a pickup just so you have a tow vehicle on weekends.

Give her a schedule of your race weekends early in the year, so she can plan on your absence (and encourage she have fun weekend too: not at the track). Be willing to give up some of them for her (she will really appreciate this!).

Dan

dansoiney

11-19-2003, 11:11 PM

Met my Wife in High School (84). First date- June Sprints 1986, pain no attention to her all day, as I was crew on a Chevron s2000(horrid car). Married her much later! Turns out, over the last year, she has saved enough money to buy 2 ITB cars!!

It IS possible-choose carefully http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

RX767

11-21-2003, 12:54 PM

Jive and JIgou.
Congratulations.
Honesty cannot be emphasized or restated enough. It allows for trust to be built. As it has been said before, without honesty, trust, and fidelity, you do not have a marriage, just a temporary legal union.

I have been happily married for almost 14 years, and I would marry my wife again in a heartbeat. She has mixed reviews towards racing, and she does her best to support me. Racing is a hobby although it feels like a mideval quest when you are trying to make a race. Balance is essential, and I hate to see ads in Sportscar, "must sell race car to save marriage".

Here are a few things I have discovered about marriage in general and racing/marriage.

- Plants can really live indoors.

- Your taste in artwork and furniture may be appropriate for a basement, game room, or garage. To put it simply, that is where alot of your stuff is headed.

- Unless it is a check or cash, wedding gifts are not for you. I personally have no use for embroidered hand towels, and apparently they are only for decoration. In an ideal world, the guy would also be allowed to register. You could leave deatailed lists in the tool department at Sears, NAPA, and the local beer barn.

- If you emerge from a coma and are placed in your house, you will be able to tell which season it is based on the decorations. (do not try to fix Christmas lights, buy new ones)

- If your wife asks you to take the laundry out of the washer and put it in the dryer, be aware that not all of her clothes should be dried in this manner. It will be you fault if something shrinks to the point that it only will fit a small dog or cat.

- If you take your race car off jack stands after replacing a set of springs to set the ride height, if you move the car in effort to create a level area, if you do not notice the little tab of sheet metal sticking down from the fender, and if you procede to cut a brand new racing tire, make sure that your wife, any children, or clergy are not around to hear your reaction.

- Items found in the kitchen should not be used for preparing a race car or home remodeling projects. Do not use a turkey baster to insert gear oil in a installed transmission. Do not insert a blade from a mixer in the end of a Dewalt drill to mix a small tub of drywall compound. They snap like twigs and they can't be replaced. You will have to buy a new mixer.

I sure other guys can add to this this list. Again congratulations.

Bill Emery
Glen Region
ITA#23

[This message has been edited by RX767 (edited November 21, 2003).]

mlytle

11-21-2003, 05:56 PM

i started racing 6 months after my wife and i spent 2 years completely remodeling our house to her spec's. she knows how much i spend as she is in charge of all family financials. i get an allowance and a credit card...;-) no complaints yet about the credit card bills!

had to laugh about the "spousal bmw" trend. my wife drove a jeep gc v8 which i would swipe as a tow vehicle. jeep didn't cut it towing an enclosed trailer though, so i sold that and got a used suburban for me, and a bmw 325i wagon (maxed out on options) for her. in 20 years of marriage, the bmw wagon is the first car we have had which she has gotten totally posessive of. she loves it. i am only allowed to wash and maintain it. i can only drive it under supervision. no complaints here, she is happy!

marshall

Red Dawg Riddley

11-21-2003, 07:35 PM

hit her in the mouth and tell her to SHUTUP!!!

when you lose it, where does it go?

geekITSracer

11-29-2003, 03:04 AM

Ahem,

Hit <bold>him</bold> in the mouth and tell him to fix my car, then shut up. As my ex-husband liked to say, I don't condone domestic violence. I understand it...

Chicks like racecars too, whether we're behind the wheel, under the hood, or watching (yawn) from the sidelines. If your chick doesn't like your car, you haven't sold her on it properly. ("But, honey, this car means that I'll leave you alone for entire weekends, without ever criticizing the cost of your shoes!")

And, I'd agree, communication, fairness, and mutual agreement go a long way.

[This message has been edited by geekITSracer (edited November 30, 2003).]