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View Full Version : I'm sorry, but my dues are subsidizing this??



16v
11-08-2003, 02:11 AM
http://www.scca.org/news/press03_146.html


please comment

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Doug :)
the16v.com (http://the16v.com)
briansgarage.com (http://www.briansgarage.com)

Geo
11-08-2003, 02:40 AM
I think it's more likely the promoter is paying the SCCA a sanctioning fee. I hope so. Either way, it's lame.



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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

Tyson
11-08-2003, 07:12 AM
I'm going to regret writing publicly on the record about this and putting my opinion out there, but i dont see a problem with SCCA associating itself to drifting. I think before anyone can have an opinion about this, they should read the article in last months SPORTSCAR about this years first event. It went over quite well, in terms of attendence and exposure for ppl to SCCA and its other events. I personally dont care for the activity of drifting, whether it be a sport or loosely termed competition. But i dont see it as a problem for SCCA to simply use it as a vehicle for promotion of its other programs. And with the amount of ppl it gathered, I doubt SCCA will be on the paying end of the stick.

Dave Burchfield
11-08-2003, 08:37 AM
One can view this from two different angles. Being an optomistic sort, I will look at it from this direction:
- SCCA is the sanctioning body, therefore the promoter pays a fee for the right to use the sanction.
- SCCA administers the program, paid for by the promoter.
- Thousands of new people with tons of disposable income are introduced to SCCA, and as a result, learn about other activities available to them within the club.
- New TV exposure to SCCA is provided via the new drifting program to the general public at the expense of the promoters.

If you have attended the SEMA show recently, you would have seen the huge interest in this market that is somewhat untapped by organized road racing in general. I see this as an opportunity for SCCA to move into a market that has been left to others for too long a time. It's a reality, why shouldn't SCCA capatalize on the opportunity?

The other view:
- Drifting is stupid....I don't want them in MY club. They can take their person, car, and dollars elsewhere.........

Being a greybeard myself, I understand the resistance to anything new and different, but, it is going to happen and if SCCA can benefit from it, I say so be it.

db
190926
CenDiv ITS #74

ddewhurst
11-08-2003, 08:58 AM
I have not viewed Drifting & have nothing against it or the SCCA promoting it.

We who have grown up in parts of the country where there is ice & snow have enjoyed playing on the sippery stuff. Can ou say car control. Of course,I being a greybeard & a rear wheel kind of guy maybe I am different.

Have Fun http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David

[This message has been edited by ddewhurst (edited November 08, 2003).]

EV
11-08-2003, 10:11 AM
I have worked a couple of NASA hyperfest events that had drifting. I will say it was the single most watched event of the weekend next to the bikini contest. There were some talented drivers that could make a car dance, I was impressed.

I agree with Dave. I think it will draw spectators to an otherwise weakly attended event. It is a spectator sport, which you don't really have to know the nuances to enjoy.

SCCA needs to get more into the import scene. I think ricemobiles with their big wheels useless wings and cantaloupe shooter exhausts look silly, but I support their right to express themselves. They have some serious money in their rides, and love to show them off. If local SCCA regions can benefit from the ticket sales, I think they should oblige.


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Enjoy,
Bill

itaracer
11-08-2003, 11:07 AM
Our new president has been very active in promoting SCCA and expanding it's membership base. I think most of the membership realizes that the "mid life crises racing league (SCCA)" membership is predominately over 40 and several attempts to bring younger folks into SCCA have been initiated over the years. (Speed Freakz, First Gear)

Drifting is another such attempt. The difference with drifting and some of the previous efforts is the huge appeal of import tuners and drifting. Even the American auto manufacturers are making serious efforts in the tuner market.

If the goal is to improve SCCA exposure, expand it's membership base, bring younger folks into SCCA and improve SCCA's bottom line I think it's a very smart move.

joeg
11-08-2003, 11:41 AM
SCCA Bikini contests--now that's a frightening...nevermind.

We need the youth for the future of the club.
If SCCA wanted to do import drag racing, I wouldn't have a problem.

whenry
11-08-2003, 01:18 PM
Bottom line: drifting is about car enthusiasts and the use of their car. I dont want my result determined by "judges" who like ice skating may have their own agenda but then I dont understand all about this generation anyway.
I have a proposal right now on my desk for a drifting event attached to an Arts Festival in the City of Knoxville. They used to sponsor a street autoX but in the end we did not attract enough folk to the event(100 entries was our upper limit) Events like NOPI etc are where its at; like it or not we may not be in control here and we can either watch or participate.

Knestis
11-08-2003, 04:38 PM
The good news is that nobody is going to force anyone to enter drifting competitions - just like nobody could make me endure the torture of a TSD rally ever again in my life. The point is "to each, his own."

I think it's a great idea for all of the reasons mentioned already and would suggest that it's a foot in the door to help young people take cars and driving more seriously: Maybe we can save a life or two along the way.

I wonder what the "motoring" establishment thought of that "dangerous element" that wanted to tear around country roads in New York in their MGs, back in the late 1940s...

K

planet6racing
11-08-2003, 06:59 PM
As if entry fees weren't expensive enough, the insurance rates for road races are going to go up.

Why, you ask?

How many times have you been to an autocross where there were "enthusiasts" present with their "tricked out" cars? How many times have these "enthusiasts,' upon deciding it was time to go, left in a fashion that was less than desirable? How many of the autocross sites keep tabs on this and raise rates to prevent autocross clubs from coming back?

Case and point. I was at a lapping day at Road America. Some spectator thought it would be cool to do burn-outs on Hwy 67, about 1 mile from the track. Said spectator was observed by some of the locals leaving the track, then doing the burn-outs. RA management got wind of it and that club is no longer welcome back.

I'm all for getting new members, especially younger members. The SCCA needs to make sure that EVERYONE at these events behaves like an adult during all aspects associated with the event, including leaving the neighborhood/wherever they are.

But, as others on other boards have said, the drifters probably won't like all ther rules they'll have to deal with now in the SCCA, so this will probably have a short life.

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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

pgipson
11-09-2003, 02:20 AM
I doubt that an SCCA sanction of drifting will have much impact on the club part of SCCA. It seems that these will be mostly professional spectator events, not amatuer competitions. If some people under 25 find out about SCCA and choose to get involved with the various activities that the club portion organizes, then great.

A group of us SCCA "grayhairs" spent last Friday at a public event at Luke AFB here in the valley. The purpose was to introduce the Luke population to what we do. We use a facilty that is adjacent to the base, and we often have Luke people "wander" over when racing is going on. We had some interest (maybe 20% of the crowd stopped by to look at our RX7 and SFR) and of that maybe 10 or 20% had some genuine interest. Most wanted to talk drag cars or street racing.

Some of the base officials are considering organizing a group of interested people on base to build and race a couple of cars, so they asked us out to help gauge the potential interest. Looking for ways to keep the young airmen out of trouble.

[This message has been edited by pgipson (edited November 09, 2003).]

Geo
11-09-2003, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Knestis:
The good news is that nobody is going to force anyone to enter drifting competitions

Are you sure about that Komrade?


Originally posted by Knestis:
I wonder what the "motoring" establishment thought of that "dangerous element" that wanted to tear around country roads in New York in their MGs, back in the late 1940s...

Communinism. Pure and simple. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif



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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

Geo
11-09-2003, 12:39 PM
I can't wait for the SCCA sanctioned Riceboy Nationals Car Show and Burnout Contest.



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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

mumbles027
11-09-2003, 12:44 PM
i am surprised at the lack of openness. scca is in auto cross, road racing, pro rally and probably more i don't even know about. why not drifting? it is all about being able to drive your car in a safe manner and not on the street. personally i would rather have the scca deal with these drifters rather than the local pd. and maybe these young wipper snappers might make some less than faverable moves, but the attitudes between the generations doen't help.

Hotshoe
11-09-2003, 01:22 PM
I'm all for it. I believe that this type of competition should be based on the same principals as solo racing.
I will probably give it a try myself. I still enjoy a little dirt track racing now and then so maybe this would be a fun alternative. It does teach good car control, and maybe with proper supervision good manners.

Rick Thompson

JDEllis
11-09-2003, 04:10 PM
IMHO, drifting does not make a good fit for the SCCA beyond a way to chase dollars and pander to "what's hip now." It is a judged competition, which goes against the other facets of SCCA competition. Then there's the ancillary elements of the "culture."

While the Civic is arguably the small-block Chevy of the present and future, a lot of the "me too's" in the scene and other elements are no different than the popularity of "sport trucks" 10 or so years ago. This too shall pass.

It's one thing to adapt/pander/cater to that demographic by adding style over substance elements to World Challenge, but this is a bit much.

I feel that in today's "gimme now" society, kids weaned on instant gratification video games have no interest in applying the time and effort to learning a specialized skillset for Solo, IT, HPDE, etc. Instead, they'd rather shell out the same amounts of dollars for overwrought stereo equipment and gaudy go-fasters. See also, bracket racing.

Instead of going this route, SCCA should put together a substantial national Solo-focused ad campaign, along with concurrent local ads with Regions. Also, an HPDE program of some sort would be a much better fit within the context of the SCCA than glorified donut competitions.

However, I do enjoy "drifting," it's just called driving an old 535i with a limited-slip in the snow!

I must be an old 27. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

-jde



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J.D. Ellis
OVR #71 ITS Olds Calais
[email protected]

JDEllis
11-10-2003, 06:51 PM
I'd forgotten I had this file on my HD:

http://www.jdellis.net/hownottodrift.mpeg (~1.6MB)


"Welcome to the SCCA Condo Complex Drift Nationals, and here's our first contestant in Mom's hand-me-down teal Corolla..."

;-)

-jde


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J.D. Ellis
OVR #71 ITS Olds Calais
[email protected]

Russ Myers
11-10-2003, 08:01 PM
Gee, that's what it's called. And to think, I've been doing it for years at autocrosses in my old Datsun 280-Z

Greg Amy
11-10-2003, 08:37 PM
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">SCCA needs to get more into the import scene.</font>

http://www.it2.evaluand.com

Chris Eastwood
11-10-2003, 09:04 PM
Being a kid myself (18) and active in SCCA, I have many friends who have "tricked out" honda's who like to drag race. Not one of them likes road racing or Autox. It takes to much work for them or so they say. I think their big bore exhauste had messed up their minds perosonally.

I also have noticed that if a younger person is going to join they either (A) really really like road racing and have money/or do it with parent(S) like me, Or (B)"grew-up" in the club. outside of that it's old the older folks. Sure I meet kids and my racing comes up, and the typical responces is," oh cool, so anyways..."
I hope that was useful, for what it's worth
Take care,
Chris

Joe Murray
11-10-2003, 10:30 PM
Sometimes popularity takes the piss out of good things.

(excuse the language)

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ahondafor?

kthomas
11-11-2003, 11:42 AM
Does Drifting remind anyone else besides me of Pro Wrestling? All show. Kinda fun to watch once but you don't want any of your friends to see you leaving the arena, and you can't believe their real fans get the same vote in elections that you do.

Uh, call me old fashioned, but if the same chicks show up for events that garnish the pages of the import mags, then I'm all for it.

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katman

oanglade
11-11-2003, 12:48 PM
"It's different than us, so we don't want it..." that's what I read here.

Heck, SCCA should be sanctioning drag racing too!

Good job!

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Ony

Joe Murray
11-11-2003, 09:28 PM
I Don't think its because: "it's different than us", but just lame. I feel it's a little sensualize like the WWF. Bad design is, bad design.

Maybe we should have wet Tee shirt contests in the run offs.



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ahondafor?

Geo
11-12-2003, 04:28 AM
Originally posted by oanglade:
"It's different than us, so we don't want it..." that's what I read here.


I don't see it that way. I'd rather the SCCA stay focused on the things it's already involved in (pro racing, club racing, pro rally, club rally, auto-x, etc.). Why dilute the already thin resources it has?


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

7racing
11-12-2003, 12:18 PM
I think of this as expanding the SCCA. There is a HUGE amount of younger generation kids spending TONS of cash on this. There is probably a good possibility (although it will never come to fruition) of cross-over appeal to Autocross/Rally/Racing. It can all work together.

I'm not totally for this idea, but I'm not against it either. A problem with SCCA in the minds of 20yr olds is that it is too expensive, too much work, too many rules, too old. This could change a lot of that, get a large demographic involved now, and they may grow up to appreciate the other aspects (when they grow out of drift, where are they going to go? They probably will stay with cars, and if half of them migrate to autocross, rally or racing, then great).

I'm not so far removed from my college days to forget the conversations about SCCA there. My favorite was "can you bet on the races - like at the horse tracks?" As a whole, the 16-25 yr olds typically want to have performance street cars, and not a purpose built racecar (can't drive your IT car to the track anymore - can't boost it, either).

Remember, SCCA started with car shows. They probably never should've left (kept it as an additional piece).

Jeremy

B Schley
11-13-2003, 01:26 PM
I'm all for getting younger members. Why not work on more actively promoting the Go-Karts and stars of tomorrow? Maybe this is a response to NASA. Why not something that is a more logical progression to auto-cross or road racing, like ice racing. SCCA has to be careful not to dilute itself. When will the wet tee-shirt contests begin?

whenry
11-13-2003, 03:53 PM
Ive never been to the Runoffs when the weather was good enough for the wet T-shirt contest or to judge if there would be some worthwhile participants. Something about too many clothes on the backstraight when it is snowing(yes, I know that it was an aberration). However a racer does have to look forward to the Spring races as the weather warms and the new racing bimbos are revealed(especially in Fla) YMMV

gsbaker
11-13-2003, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by whenry:
...Something about too many clothes on the backstraight when it is snowing...

And now, ladies and gentlemen, the snow bunny wet snowmobile suit contest!

Oops. Froze another one.

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Gregg Baker
Isaac, LLC
[email protected]

11-16-2003, 05:08 AM
Originally posted by planet6racing:
How many times have you been to an autocross where there were "enthusiasts" present with their "tricked out" cars? How many times have these "enthusiasts,' upon deciding it was time to go, left in a fashion that was less than desirable? How many of the autocross sites keep tabs on this and raise rates to prevent autocross clubs from coming back?

Case and point. I was at a lapping day at Road America. Some spectator thought it would be cool to do burn-outs on Hwy 67, about 1 mile from the track. Said spectator was observed by some of the locals leaving the track, then doing the burn-outs. RA management got wind of it and that club is no longer welcome back.

I'm all for getting new members, especially younger members. The SCCA needs to make sure that EVERYONE at these events behaves like an adult during all aspects associated with the event, including leaving the neighborhood/wherever they are.

But, as others on other boards have said, the drifters probably won't like all ther rules they'll have to deal with now in the SCCA, so this will probably have a short life.



Maybe the reason more "younger" drivers don't get involved in scca is the attitudes of the older members. I went to an scca autocross 2 years ago for the first time and it was my last. You shouldn't assume that because somebody shows up with a car that isn't all go, no show that they are just some riceboy ass-clown. Try to have an open mind. drift driving is very hard to do well, and is amazing to watch. Maybe aspiring drift masters will realize that You have to crawl, before you can crab-walk, and show up to an auto-x to learn basic skills. hopefully they will have a better first impression than I did.

[This message has been edited by Trevor's GTI 57 (edited November 16, 2003).]

Prince Makaha
11-16-2003, 08:17 AM
Let them come watch the drifters.
Let them stay to watch the real racing.

More fans are better.

What if the IT racers decided to dominate the drifting competition?

[This message has been edited by Prince Makaha (edited November 16, 2003).]

Geo
11-16-2003, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by Trevor's GTI 57:
Try to have an open mind. drift driving is very hard to do well, and is amazing to watch. Maybe aspiring drift masters will realize that You have to crawl, before you can crab-walk, and show up to an auto-x to learn basic skills.

You're assuming drifters may be actually interested in real racing. In my limited experience they couldn't care less about racing.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

mumbles027
11-16-2003, 06:53 PM
maybe the drifters don't and maybe they don't know how to break into it. i spent years thinking about how much fun it would be. and the more opertunity the better i say.

planet6racing
11-16-2003, 07:10 PM
Trevor:

Thank you for taking the time to post. Since it is your first post, I'd just like to know how you heard about this topic.

Secondly, it only takes one (yes one!) person to ruin a site for both autocross and road racing. That's all I'm saying. If people want to drift, fine by me. I'm in no way close minded to it, but I am ultimately concerned about insurance costs and site costs because both of these ultimately effect me in the most important spot: the wallet.

Come to a Milwaukee Region autocross. Find me. I'll gladly help get you classed and through the autocross making sure you have a good time. Yeah, it will deal a blow to the ego (mine was pretty big), but I couldn't wait for the next one! If you're interested, contact me offline.

Mumbles: I was in the same boat. As soon as I found out about Road Racing, I started building my car. 4 years later, I have my license and will be racing hard next year. I don't think a drifting event would have changed how I got into it because I don't have cable and therefore can't see any of the televised SCCA events ($50 per month X 12 months = 1 new set of Kumho's) and therefore still wouldn't know about the SCCA. Perhaps the SCCA should focus on better promotion of their current programs to drive up interest...

Oh, and just a suggestion to all the Junior Members: You'll notice most of us put our real names at the end of our posts. This will go a long way to help us take you all seriously (not that we don't, but it sure gets easy to skip some posts, especially when you read many boards with high noise ratios!).

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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

mumbles027
11-16-2003, 08:09 PM
i know about luck. i didn't know there were any tacks in mi untill i bought my lotus on a bet. then someone pull my registration and asked if i wanted to go to a track fun day. then when my car club turned into an online community for sports car enthusists a svr regional director sighed up and i found out about auto-x. i wish i would have known about it three cars ago when i had the camaro.

Knestis
11-16-2003, 09:43 PM
If the issue is behavior at/around venues, address it separately. In just a few years, we had one rolled Fiat and two different people hit trees (the same tree, actually) on the access road at Seattle (now Pacific Raceways) - 1 crew member, 1 rallysprint entrant(!), and 1 spectator, as I recall things. No drifters. I wish that I had a nickel for every idiot that I saw blow across Highway 18 onto the hilly back road into Kent and disappear into the distance with redline shifts.

K