If we did it, would you come?

[Scott Nutter]

I was at my regions membership meeting this week and an idea was brought up that I liked. In an effort to increase car counts at our two regional races it was suggested that we give those drivers who choose to attend both races a discount on the entry fee for the second race (50% was being tossed around). My question to this forum is, would that entice you to modify your racing schedule to attend both races?

[itaracer]

YES - I don't know what region your talking about but I think it's an excellent idea.

[joeg]

Scott--Neat idea, but I wouldn't want to see the region go broke on it. Perhaps they could also get an assist from the track too.

[Scott Nutter]

Given this years numbers at the two races, could not get numbers from last year. There would be some risk to loosing money on the venture but not much. I think we would need to get around 25 more drivers to attend both races, well make that 24 because I would go to both. As far am my understanding of my regions finances I think we could assume the risk for a season or two. We all know that raising entry fees does not attract more drivers, maybe an incentive like this would attract enough to make it financially viable?

[pgipson]

For several years we had a "bonus weekend". The last race of the season was a two for one. It was well accepted (of course) and much appreciated. Especially at the end of the season when budgets get tight. We haven't done that for a couple of years. Don't really know why unless our finances are tighter since the economy turned down. Our car counts have been down the last couple of seasons.

[itaracer]

The Mid-South Region sponsores a Double Points Regional at the end of each season. Most of the MiDiv Mid-Am championships are decided in that race. Attendance was way down this year and the region lost money on the event.

I don't know if it's because most folks have spent their racing budgets or if it's because the ARRC is the next weekend. I do know that the Region is looking for ways to improve attendance.

There is also a race worker shortage issue. Maybe combining working/racing for a discount might work. There used to be a Racer Bucks program. I'm not sure how it worked. Anyone familiar with Racer Bucks?

[pgipson]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\"> Anyone familiar with Racer Bucks? </font>

We have used racer Bucks in AZ region for several years for worker reward program. They can be used for shirts, jackets, banquet tickets at the end of the year; that sort of thing. I'm not close to it, but I get the impression that the program has lost some steam and may be replaced with something else.

Worker recruitment and retention is probably the single biggest issue facing racing regions. We depend on other regions for support of some our bigger events (Snowbird double nationals in particular). It is tough to get regional only drivers to work national races.

[This message has been edited by pgipson (edited November 09, 2003).]

[RX767]

Originally posted by Scott Nutter:"We all know that raising entry fees does not attract more drivers,"
That's not too tough to show in a graph. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif


"... maybe an incentive like this would attract enough to make it financially viable?"

Scott,
I think it is a good idea although I probably show-up anyhow since I like the track and the atmosphere. Your region (Mahoning Valley?), like many other regions, is forced to consider competition aspects of attracting drivers and workers.

Are there tenative dates for your region's regionals? Where things get interesting or frustrating is when the NE and CEN division schedules emerge. Driver numbers can be kept down by not only a direct conflict, but also a by events being scheduled in a three weekend range. It is almost impossible for me to race two weekends in a row. The question for me is would I forego a race at Watkins Glen or Rausch Creek (it may open someday) so that I will have a 50% discount in a future race? I can't definitively say yes, but it make things more attractive. Will other regions follow with their own incentive programs? Or, could we see incentive programs based on series such as Kryder or NYRRC?

Bill Emery
Glen Region
ITA#23

[itbgti]

Scott,

Great thought....here is another:

Take a look at racer's resident locations (who normally participate in events), and draw a circle on a map..anyone outside that "area" can receive a 50% discount off that entry fee...this will help them cover the additional cost of traveling, provide some new competition, etc....this is a very high level of an idea, but something could come of it.

[JIgou]

Scott, to answer your question: If $125 (~50% of an average weekend in Midiv) was the difference between me racing and not racing, I wouldn't be racing that weekend anyway.

WARNING: slight thread hijack, in response to itaracer - but still has some merit in this discussion....


Originally posted by itaracer:
The Mid-South Region sponsores a Double Points Regional at the end of each season. Most of the MiDiv Mid-Am championships are decided in that race. Attendance was way down this year and the region lost money on the event.

I don't know if it's because most folks have spent their racing budgets or if it's because the ARRC is the next weekend. I do know that the Region is looking for ways to improve attendance.


The past two years (at least), the double Mid-Am points race was in St. Louis - I know, because I attended both. (Worker one year, driver the next.)

I think there are two things that hurt the attendance in Memphis this year: location and schedule.

Not being in the running for the win, I elected not to run the double-points race this year. If I were in striking distance of my class leader, I likely would have attended. I know that's the exact thought another driver here in Des Moines had.

10 hours is just too far to tow for a regional race that doesn't mean anything points-wise. (All-or-nothing mentality, but it comes into play when it's time to make a decision.)

To the Schedule: this year (in Memphis) the weekend was a school-regional - one race. St. Louis typically did a regional-regional - two races.

While the school/track time would be a good thing for a first-timer at the track, those in the running for the championship aren't going to risk their cars in the school the day before the BIG race.

Think of it in this perspective: if the double-points race were to move to MAM next year, and be coupled with a school.....would you go to it if you weren't in the running for the Mid-Am Championship?

Nothing personal - but this is almost word-for-word the discussion I was involved in over a few beers a few weeks ago.

Jarrod

[Scott Nutter]

Originally posted by JIgou:
If $125 (~50% of an average weekend in Midiv) was the difference between me racing and not racing, I wouldn't be racing that weekend anyway.


That's why I feel that for something like this to be successful it would have to be anounced before the season started, when we are all still deciding our individual racing schedules. Who knows maybe a discount such as this would allow for the addition of a race weekend. Of course the entry fee is a small part of the costs, especially if there is a decent tow involved.

[itaracer]

Jarrod,

I completely understand your response. I didn't go to any of the MAM events because it was just too far (14 hours). I also agree that, if it had been a Double Regional, the attendance would most likely have been greater.

I believe the MMP had low turn outs for all of its events this season. In my just received Mid Am report the numbers indicate a nearly 20% drop in average attendance numbers from last year.

MMP is not alone GIR was down almost 5%, HPT was down almost 15%, HMRC was down almost 25% amd MAM was down almost 7%.
So the issue is not just low attendance at MMP for the season finale but overall low attendance for all venues.

Some good ideas are emerging from this discussion. If we can develop an incentive for improving attendance throughout the season maybe the season finale will have better attendence.

I kind of like the distance rated discount idea. I'm just not sure that it will offset the time/distance issue. Specifically, regardless of the discount a 14 hour one way tow is still a 14 hour one way tow.

[RX767]

Scott,
Is this idea in response to a low turnout at the first Mahoning Valley regional held each year? I do not have a copy of last year's schedule. When is this first one held?
Is there a suspected conflict with Beaverun and/or Mid Ohio? The double regional held in October generally seems well attended. If the intent is to increase the numbers for your region's first race, why not have the incentive cross seasons. If a driver runs the Fall regional, then they are eligible for a discount in the Spring?

Bill Emery
Glen Region
ITA#23

[Scott Nutter]

Bill,
Yes it is the first race, in August. This years schedule was as follows:

Aug 2-3 Beaverun - Mid-Ohio
Aug 8-9 Lime Rock
Aug 9-10 Summit Point
Aug 16-17 Nelson Ledges - Road America
Aug 23-24 NHIS
Aug 30-31 Grattan - Mosport - Summit Point
Sep 6-7 NHIS - Mid-Ohio

So yes, I could see some potential conflict. Unless monetarily and martially you can attend more race weekends than I can.

[JIgou]

Originally posted by itaracer:
MMP is not alone GIR was down almost 5%, HPT was down almost 15%, HMRC was down almost 25% amd MAM was down almost 7%.
So the issue is not just low attendance at MMP for the season finale but overall low attendance for all venues.


(specifics are for Midiv, but apply your own division.....)

My opinion, and I know I'm not alone: there are too many races.

I had three race weekends that were a mere 2.5 hours away from home. (MAM) That impacted my plans and budget for racing elsewhere - with a few trips to Heartland Park and a visit to GIR at the beginning of the year, I was able to get my "fix" fairly close to home. (Never mind owning two houses for 3 months kinda broke the budget....)

Let's say I've got 11 race weekends budgeted for next year. My calendar for this year showed 19 racing weekends.

Provided next year is the same (I believe we're actually ADDING a weekend or two), I'd be skipping at least 8 weekends. I'll pick-and-choose the tracks I run, and a significant factor in the decisions will likely be the travel time to the tracks. So, Hallett and Memphis won't see me, an I'll skip at least one weekend at Gateway.

Now, let's just say that each of the 5 tracks drops one weekend, leaving us with 14 weekends. I'm still planning on running 11 weekends, but now will only be skipping 4 weekends (ARRC counts as one http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif ). I'll still be racing the same amount; but, with fewer weekends....and fewer skipped races.

It's not like we're turning folks away at the gate because we've already got too many cars registered....why not condense the racing, increase the weekend's profits for the regions, and have fun?

I also strongly feel that this would help the worker situation....

(Hasn't this been sorta-hashed over on the midiv.org message board?)

Jarrod

[This message has been edited by JIgou (edited November 11, 2003).]

[itbracer6]

I find it interesting that we are hashing this out again. But here is my 2 cents.

As an Ironman racer ( ran every weekend available 2 years in a row in Midiv) I can tell you that racing is like drugs, You will find a way to pay for your fix! Cost is a factor but not the only one. BTW GIR raised it's price to equal a Nat. weekend for the last double regional. Normally 235 and they charged us 255 just because they could.

That said I can also tell you that if I have to choose weekends I will race MMP Hallett & the ARRC only if thats all I could afford ( and I live in St. Louis!) Gateway is hard on cars if you screw up and IT is a second class citizen there. MAM is 6-7 hours away and if I'm driving that far I'll add 2 hours and go to Atlanta. Heartland is OK. I like the people but the changing track has hurt me as I never spend enough time on one config. to figure it out, a disadvantage to me, my own disability.

Hallett is great as it is a real road coarse and Memphis has Beal St. Besides it gives me a chance to do my Elvis voices.

Thank you baby

Bill

[itaracer]

Now I know it's true. Elvis lives and he drives a VW in ITB!!!!!! Bill, I thought you looked familiar. Elvis without the sideburns. Who would have thunk it.

Thank you, thank you very much!!!!

[Scott Nutter]

Thanks, for all the responses.

Not to flaunt it (but I will anyhow) I had 7 race weekends in less than an hour tow, and if I tow for a whole 2.5Hrs I would have 4 more! Now I only did 6 race weekends, 5 for less than an hour and one 6 hour tow.

The number of races probably does contribute to lower attendence, however I would hate to loose them. I am probably not alone in the fact that this is a hobby and I have other commitments like family and that anoying sponser that expects at least 40 hours a week and even expects me to travel! So I like the oppurtunity to fit my racing in with the rest of my life.

I did some looking and it appears that most of the entrants are in a 125 mile radius. Maybe some kind of discount for those towing farther. I know that use 90 gallons of gas in my tow rig to go to Watkins Glen.

I will go try to find the discussion on the midiv.org board.

Also I looked at the sat. entries for both races and there were roughly 95 entrants in Aug. and 115 in Oct. of those 49 attended both races. I'm not sure how many more we could entice?

[racer_tim]

Glenn, in the San Fracisco Region, we have a couple of "dual entry" classes. ITX is for all IT cars, that run in Group 1, where the normal run Group is 5. Entry is $130 for the 2nd entry. Our regular entry fees are between $200 and $275 for the 3 tracks.

There is also a dual entry class for Formula Fords. It's called FB and they run with the FV's and F5's in Group 7, where the normal FF, SF, and CF are in Group 4.



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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit (Bent)
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html