Tow vehicle purchase

[Domino]

My girlfriend is looking to get rid of her Celica and get a SUV. So I say "why not get something that would make a good tow vehicle." She really likes the Honda Pilot, as do I. It's rated capacity is 4,500lbs for boat trailers and 3,500lbs for all other trailers. How does towing a boat trailer differ from a car trailer? I'm guessing it doesn't. I'm fairly new to trailering so is 4,500lbs sufficient for a 2,080 pound CRX, trailer and everything else? Thanks.

[Fleetcare]

Aerodynamically yes it is...

But I know many people towing CRX's with Pilots... so as long as you get the tow package I am sure you will be fine!

[planet6racing]

In my opinion, you will be borderline at best. If you are going to do this, make sure your trailer has brakes. Good brakes. Also, upgrade the Honda's pads to something that can better handle heat.

Towing a 2300# Saturn and gear behind a Ford E-150 van is scary enough. I'm not sure I would want to do it with anything less.

------------------
Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

[cherokee]

In my view this is one area that you do not want to skimp on...you have a lot mass there, and all the tools,tires and all the other stuff adds up faster then you would think, I would bet you are closer to the 3500 then you would think. You don't skimp on safety on the race car, don't skimp on the tow vehicle eather.

[Domino]

I'm using the 4,500lbs as a guideline. I figure 2,080 for the car 1,000lbs for the trailer and 500lbs of equipment. There is 900lbs to spare. All other comparable (price wise) SUVs tow about the same, 5,000lbs for some. The V8 4Runner tows 7,500lbs but they want $34,000 and has half the interior space as the Pilot. I certainly agree on "not skimping". But I just don't see (not to mention convincing her) spending $35,000+ on something that can haul 7,000lbs when all that is needed is about 4,000lbs. I do understand that there is something to be said about having greater capacity than needed because it increases the "ease" factor.

[SpeedyDave]

I wouldn't think the Pilot could handle it. We had the similar decision, needing another car but also VERY limited on space meant we couldn't get a big old truck.
We went with a '97 4runner, because the 96+ have a larger engine (V6) and towing capacity is 5000 lbs.
I figure my race car weighs in at 2400 lbs plus or minus, and a steel open trailer weighs in around 2000 lbs. Tires and tools a couple hundred. That's pretty close to the 5000 lb, and well over the Pilot capacity.
I figured the 4runner is gonna be slow heading up mountains, but serves all the purposes we needed...

[Greg Amy]

Hi, Joe. Towing the SE-R? Get a real truck.

I bought a 302-powered E-250 1/2-ton Ford van and tried to pull the NX and all my stuff behind it, and I was severely disappointed. I spent most of my time on the highwat planning ahead for hills; side roads? Fuggetaboutit. I am selling it and have bought a E-350 1-ton Ford diesel and I'm much happier.

Remember, manufacturer's rated "towing capacity" tells you what the vehicle is physically and legally capable of pulling safely, but it tells you NOTHING about whether it's really capable of doing it comfortably. I know a lot of folks like to try and make one of these little bloated import station wagons into dual-purpose "sport" and "utility", but unless you're limiting your use to surfboards, bicycles, or towing snowmobiles or motorcycles you really need to get a truck. A real truck.

Hey, I'll sell you a really nice 1989 E-250 cargo van with a rebuilt gas 302 and rebuilt transmission, new tires, Class III hitch for $2500...

Greg


[This message has been edited by grega (edited October 23, 2003).]

[JohnRW]

Originally posted by grega:
Hi, I am selling it and have bought a E-350 1-ton Ford diesel and I'm much happier.


Ah...the perfect tow vehicle. Congrats. I sold my E-350 diesel van this summer and switched to a new F-350 crewcab diesel dually...and I REALLY MISS MY VAN !!!!! Yes, the dually tows the big trailer better, has better brakes and is more stable (and is also 200k newer)...but for sheer ease of access to 'stuff', nothing beats a van. Last weekend and this coming weekend am towing the open trailer, and climbing into and out of the back of the dually sucks.

Vans rule.

[racer_tim]

John, that's why they make 10x20 awnings. :lol:

P.S. I tow with a Dodge 2500 Turbo Diesel and hardly know the car/trailer are even back there. Coming home from Portland to the SF Bay Area after the Rose Cup, I got 16 mpg.

The retractable tonneau cover also helps.



------------------
Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit (Bent)
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[jc836]

Allow this observation: I asked my Honda dealer about the Pilot and was politely told to buy a truck. Why, because the overall capacity of the Pilot would be exceeded. This is the key to figuring out what you really need.
I wound up with a Dodge Dakota 4x2 4.7V8 and it tows just fine. The only strain comes when we climb the mountians to get to either Pocono or Watkins Glen (so far) and that is a minimal issue.
Another person makes a good point about what you are towing. My CRX sits on a 1250 pound 20' aluminum trailer-that means my base trailer weight is ~3400 with fuel,a spare trailer tire, winch and battery. This does not include spares for the car and pit equipment. Also keep in mind that you must calculate the weight of the vehicle and people into the final equation. I learned this the hard way after putting our 500 pounds of gear on the bed the springs of the truck were not happy. Tongue weight of the trailer is ~300lbs, btw, and that is included
in the total. The GVWR for my truck with its tow package is 6010.

You may want to consider a Durango or equivalent if you want that type of vehicle. It and its counterparts (older Blazer and Bronco) are very good for certain types of towing. The Pilot will not handle an enclosed trailer big enough for your race car, but the others will.
Good luck with your project.

------------------
Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA #99
'99 Prelude=a sweet song
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab V8-Patriot Blue gonna tow

[This message has been edited by jc836 (edited October 23, 2003).]

[racer_tim]

John, that's why they make 10x20 awnings. :lol:

P.S. I tow with a Dodge 2500 Turbo Diesel and hardly know the car/trailer are even back there. Coming home from Portland to the SF Bay Area after the Rose Cup, I got 16 mpg.

The retractable tonneau cover also helps.



------------------
Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit (Bent)
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[eh_tony!!!]

Put my vote in for overkill on the safety side. (2wd excursion PSD, load bars, air bags, rear sway bar, bilstiens, E load range tires, electric brakes, 11,500 tow capacity)

I'm thinking about the pilot decision and can't make up my mind.

Positives:
Wide track, 4wheel disk, decent HP (not great, decent), sporty suspension (keeps you from getting knocked around), ABS, Girlfirend's 'free' tow ride.

Cons:
lack of torque, unresolved tranny reliability question (does it have a cooler? can it handle the extra weight w/o cooking itself?). nice interior so nowhere to put greasy stuff, girlfriend would kill you if you got it all nasty.

My suspicion is that it's tow fine with electric brakes, if your primary tows were not through the Rocky's. Exepect alot of upshift/downshift messing around, yada yada.

I'll stick with this opinion of mine if:

-You're not doing a 15 race schedule
-You're not located in Palm Desert, Houston, or S Fla (heat)
- You don't overload the wimpy C-load range rear tires with the additional tongue weight and gear weight.
- you move to the right lane when the PSD/Duramax/Cummins guys pull close (lol, just a jab there)

Recommedation to all:
DO some serious checking into what load your rear tires are handling during a tow. Most truck stops have axle scales you can use for a buck or 5. I found that loaded, the standard Firestone's were within 50 lbs each of rated capacity with gear, people, and trailer(racing piano included, don't ask me about this one). On the same trip I also noticed a sinificant heat difference (as measured with pyrometer) between the front's and rears. Finally, on a 1400 mile RT tow, I had visible tire wear on the rears.

My final thoughts are that I towed for at least 8 years with underrated vehicles (S10, Passport, Astro). I'm still here, but I am SOOOOO much more relaxed in the Ex. Especially in traffic. Hell, my wife drives the Ex with the 28 ft on the back.. says it's a breeze..

[Domino]

Exactly how much does a steel open deck or closed deck trailer weigh? I was under the impression that they weigh 1,000 to 1,500lbs.

I won't be doing a 15 race schedule, I live in Florida, and the Pilot does come with a power steering and trans cooler. Believe me I would love to have anything with the word Powerstroke or Cummins on the side of the vehicle. The catch is if I go hog-wild right now in my life, I might not have enough cash to make it to the track : )

[Hammer]

You may also want to consider renting a tow vehicle until you have one of your own. When I first started, I rented a Ford F-150 from Heintzelman Ford in Orlando. It had a tow package and a brake box for the trailer brakes. You should go to the November race at Sebring and walk the paddock and see what other people are towing with. I tow an RX7 with an open trailer with a 99 Expedition with the big engine and it tows fine.

[JIgou]

My 16-foot open trailer - steel frame, full wood deck - weighs in the neighborhood of 1,800 lbs.

Add my car (2000 lbs), tires, jack, tools, fiancee, dog, etc....I sometimes feel like I'm starting to push the limit of my tow vehicle - a Dodge 1500 4x4 Quadcab. (I have been accused of taking too much crap along to the track.....)

Next truck will be at least a 3/4-ton - in large part because I'd like to go to an enclosed trailer as well. This truck won't do it....or, more correctly, I won't do that to this truck.

I used to think an SUV-type vehicle would be nice.....but now I'm spoiled with the open, put whatever greasy/big/messy crap you want in it, bed of a truck.

Jarrod

[Domino]

Thanks for all your input. I looked at the V8 4Runner again and it turns-out that it's only about $1,000 more than the Pilot and it's rated capacity is 7,300lbs 235hp/320lb-ft. The suspension is about the same but not 4WD. I think at will suit her *cough* my needs quite well.

[Jake]

Sorry to get on this thead so late. The Pilot is a terrific wagon - I'd highly recommend it. I towed my MR2 w/o trailer brakes with one and loved it. The engine has lots of power. I went up and down lots of hills on the way to limerock and still averaged 15mph while towing. The 4Runner does pull more - but it drives and drinks fuel more like a truck. The new V6 is very powerful.

[B Schley]

The Honda is definately borderline. The best thing you can do is buy the load leveling bars and hitch. I did this and it made a world of difference while towing with my 6cyl. Jeep Cherokee. I, like you am towing a CRX with a 1600lb. steel trailer. I now have an Excursion which is terrific. Go overkill on the tow vehicle. Get the Toyota if that fits your budget and get the load leveler hitch and bars, best $300-$400 you will ever spend.

[x-ring]

I'd like to second that thought on the load leveler hitch. My trailer is heavy, 3150 lbs empty / probably 6K loaded, and the load leveler REALLY made a difference, even pulling with a PSD F350.

The best thing to do is ask around at the track, find someone with a rig like what you want, and ask them how it does.

Good luck,

Ty