View Full Version : Attention SARRC ITB and ITC Drivers

02-27-2005, 08:07 PM
This weekend at Road Atlanta, after discussing it with several of the B/C drivers in impound, I started a petition to have ITB and ITC moved from the Spec Miata group to the Production/SS group. Everyone I spoke to felt this was a GREAT idea.

I already have quite a few signatures, and am sure I'll get a bunch more at VIR in 3 weeks, but I know I can't personally get to everyone.

So, if you are a SARRC ITB or ITC competitor and you support this initiative, please email me the following note...

I am a SARRC ITB/ITC competitior and support the initiative to move these classes from the Spec Miata group to the Production/Showroom Stock group. I realize that this may result in my having to surrender my permanent number assigment.

Member Number

Please send this to me ASAP. I plan to submit it shortly after the VIR SARRC/ECR (assuming its well supported).

Scott Giles
22 ITC
[email protected]

#22 ITC Honda Civic
3rd Place 2004 ARRC
1st Place 2004 ARRC Enduro

02-28-2005, 12:32 AM
As an SM guy, I'd support this as well. Theres just too much disparity in our class, as far as guys with skill and those without, to make it fair for you guys.

I had the misfortune of slipping under an ITC car( might have been Vesa), under double yellow during qualifying, ( coming out from under the bridge, I made the mistake of looking down the hill, instead of at the flagger), so I got to start at the back. I couldn't believe how bad some of the cars from the middle of the pack on back were. Most of 'em had no idea anyone was around.

If I were you guys, especially the ITC drivers, and I was mired up in this; I'd want out too.

Another problem is the absolutely ridiculous problem we're having with permanent numbers. There must be 25 guys with permanent numbers I've never seen at the track.

I took the liberty of posting Scott's post above over on Specmiata.com, in hopes that the SM guys might support this iniative as well.

Chuck Newman
BSI Racing

02-28-2005, 10:49 AM
Thanks Chuck.

Its good to see a top SM guy take note of the problem. As you saw this past weekend, many of the SM guys back where us ITC guys race just aren't very good and they are constantly hitting us, blocking us, or just plain driving us off the track.

The ECRs are the most telling. We have no issues being around the quick SM guys when they lap us, and things are clean 99% of the time. But those guys that are barely faster (or slower) than the ITB and C cars are very often just plain awful.

Thanks for your support, especially since you're typically up at the pointy end of the grid and this really doesn't much effect you.

Maybe you BSI guys can start a "We the undersigned SM SARRC drivers support moving ITB and ITC to the prod group" petition. If we have lots of support from both sides we'll have a better chance of getting it done.

At the very least we need to get a permanent split start requirement for the group.

02-28-2005, 02:27 PM
I think your biggest problem is going to be selling this to the Prod guys. We ran Prod and ITC in MARRS one year, and it worked fine, but many people whined about cornering speeds and car sizes. One Prod VW guy complained about car size differences, even though his model was IT eligible. Many drivers and officials were concerned about race tire vs. street tire cornering.
I found both of these to be non-issues, but some still complained.

"Bad" Al Bell
ITC #3 Datsun 510
DC Region MARRS Series

02-28-2005, 03:13 PM
As a prod racer (GP Scirocco) and former ITC racer, I don't have any problem with the grouping. The prod cars already run with SSB/SSC at some national races and SRF in many SARRC races. So the slick tire/DOT tire or car size issue really isn't a factor.

I think it could be good prod recruiting move. When the IT guys see how much faster you can go in prod with the same car, they might want to join in on the fun! Of course, if my memory of racing in ITC serves me, some of the ITB and ITC cars are already prod cars. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif


Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Action Digital/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme VW Scirocco

02-28-2005, 03:38 PM
As Mark mentioned, the SRFs already run in that SARRC group, so the DOT vs. Race tire issue is a moot one.

Car size... Other than the Volvos it shouldn't be an issue. And they already run with the sub-2000lb ITC CRXs anyway. Thats not a reasonable reason no to make the change.

As for speeds... I probably could have won the SARRC regional GP championship in my ITC car last year. I'm faster than many of them at many tracks (and I'm legal Mark, as are most of the SARRC frontrunning ITC cars these days from what I can tell).

Many of us discussed this Saturday afternoon and can't find a valid reason not to do it. I guarantee you the top 5 SARRC ITC cars are faster on average than the top 5 SARRC *regional* HP cars.

dave parker
02-28-2005, 04:23 PM
I agree that this would be a good grouping of cars.
Many times when the race officials create run groups it is done with an eye toward car counts and "filling" up the race track. Rather than looking at what cars run "good" (not beating and bashing each other) together. IMHO, NO IT cars should be grouped with any kind of spec class (SRX7,SM,SSM, or whatever we are calling it this week).

I support your initiative, but unfortunately, i only get to race with the SARRC boys once a year at VIR. So i am sure my opinion does not count.
dave parker
wdcr ITC#97

02-28-2005, 06:16 PM
Scott, I'm not against your proposal. I'm in favor of it.
I just wanted to warn you of some potential roadblocks

"Bad" Al Bell
ITC #3 Datsun 510
DC Region MARRS Series

02-28-2005, 07:38 PM
Sent you my support letter. Great to talk to you impound last weekend.

Ron Sattele
ITB Mustang