watkinsglen ITA best race of the year?

[dazzlesa]

looking at the people registered makes me think that this will be the fastest group you will run with all year.the limerock race seemed to be great but most of us fizzeled when it counted. i do not think i can make it but i think the limerock boys will do some summit spanking.who knows? i can be wrong.GO HONDA! i hope all the cars will hold together and you get a clean race so we can see who is the fastest of the fast! rick#06ITA

[moto62]

29 'A' cars so far. I guess the question should be, who's not going? http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif
Ray

[emwavey]

Sure, rub it in why don't cha? http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

Uhm, I'm not going. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/frown.gif

------------------
-dave
nerdsracing.com (http://www.nerdsracing.com)
8)

[mgyip]

Originally posted by emwavey:
Sure, rub it in why don't cha? http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

Uhm, I'm not going. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/frown.gif


The "No Class" group will keep you in our thoughts http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif

Haz-Matt

[R2 Racing]

So just when would this race be? I do like the Glen and it's not that far for me.

(please don't say June 30-31st or August 6-7th)

------------------
Kevin
Ruck Racing
'92 ITA Acura Integra RS
'92 ITC Honda Civic CX
'85 ITC Honda Civic S
'95 ITS Honda Prelude Si

[JamesB]

No this comming weekend.

[lateapex911]

Hey, are there showers at the glen?

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[mgyip]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
Hey, are there showers at the glen?

Not unless things have changed significantly from last year. Some of the campers pay the fee to "camp" at the state park about 15 min from the Glen and shower there - those of us with sensitive noses are thankful http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

[JamesB]

Matt didnt you burn out your own sense of smell by the time you hit college with your hazardous emmisions?

[tdw6974]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
Hey, are there showers at the glen?

NO SHOWERS

[spnkzss]

There is a Community Center within 3 miles of the place tha thas a pool and the HUGE showers. I think the cost (when I was up there last for NASCAR 3 years ago) was $7 per car load. Pack you truck full of people. That is what I plan to do.

Spanky
#03 ITC 1990 Honda Civic WDCR

[JamesB]

Hose down your crew and back to the track?

[lateapex911]

UN believable!!!!!!!!!!!

World class.. (EX F1, NASCAR, INDY car, etc) and NO showers???

Sheesh....

I wonder how those shower bag things work!??

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[16v]

Jake I seriously thought about having one overnighted to me for this weekend but decided I'll just tough it out like I've done at Sebring and Daytona during the round the clock races.

[biovic]

Anyone care to share the results of the top 3 ITA/B/S races at the Glen?
Thanks.
Victor

[Andy Bettencourt]

Victor,

If I read the supps right, today was a test day, Sat has 2 seperate qualifiers and the racing is Sunday...

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)
http://www.flatout-motorsports.com/images/misc/RX-7_Avitar.jpg

[biovic]

DOH, you're right!
I was confused because when I was at the Pig Roast weekend, some guys were not driving because they said they were saving their cars and money for the Glen the following weekend.
Oh well, guess I'll have to wait a couple days. Thanks.

[Bildon]

>> Anyone care to share the results of the top 3 ITA/B/S races at the Glen?

Official Results
ITS:
1 Nick Leverone - RX7 2:14.1
2 Steve Wheeler - Acura 2:18.2
3 Tim Estes - RX7 2:18.1
ITA:
1 Brett DePedro - Miata 2:19.6
2 Tom Blaney - CRX 2:19.5
3 Ray Lee Chee - Acura 2:19.8
ITB:
1 Greg Subtelnet - Volvo 2:24.4
2 Don Thompson - VW GTI 2:24.9
3 William Radford - 2002 2:26.5
ITC:
1 Meg Meyer - Civic 2:31.1
2 Mark Baracka - VW 2:32.0
3 John Burkhard - CRX 2:32.1

------------------
Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport (http://www.bildon.com)
Volkswagen Racing Equipment

[RP Performance]

test

[dazzlesa]

damn tom and ray! i am over here flapping my lips about honda spanking the miata's ass http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif.
please tell us about the race.
fast clean racing is what it is all about.congrats to bret for the win and tom for the track record. who else made the trip? rick #06 ITA

[mgyip]

No one here but us chickens...I made the trip and was dreadfully slow (as always). Missed a shift on Sat AM and popped the alternator belt which also drives the water pump on the VW. I was able to get back for the afternoon session although my times were less than stellar.

Had a great start though - got past a good 4-5 cars only to have them pass me again since with 5 seasons on the motor, the General Li is getting a bit long in the tooth. Started 20th and finished 18th - at least my car was still running and relatively unbent at the end of the race.

Haz-Matt

[itbgti]

Matt,

I was the Audi Coupe that finished in 19th and was slowly creeping up on you...I was hoping we would have had a couple more laps because I think we would have had some fun. Anyone have any news on the BMW driver...it looked like an "easy" roll.

My inspiration Matt, was I thought you were a B car http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

Regards,
Alan

[This message has been edited by itbgti (edited July 25, 2005).]

[JamesB]

As for the 2002 Roll, driver was fine, no idea on the tub, but it was sure fun trying to load it.

[dyoungre]

Hey Audi,
I was the red RX7 that finished 20th behind you. I was glad to see that final yellow; remember that I waved you by? I no longer had carb secondaries, as a cotter pin let go. As if 12A weren't down on power to begin with.
Fun race, amazing track. Did you have radio communication on the restart? You went by, I couldn't see the tower ...

------------------
Dave Youngren
NER ITA RX7 #61

[mgyip]

Originally posted by itbgti:
My inspiration Matt, was I thought you were a B car http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

Alan,

I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing - probably bad since you were catching me without too much difficulty http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/redface.gif There was another orange GTi in ITB - #5 or #05. Apparently he had some problems with the car but I still had to joke with him that he was copying my idea with the orange paint, just like TJ Hanifan's VW. Of course no one has the "taste" to run the Stars and Bars except the General Li http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

I saw you at the Heel of the Boot during the restart lap when you went from drivers' left to drivers' right in my mirror - hope I didn't do anything to cause you angst. Nice looking car, that's fer sure!!

I was hoping to have gotten past that green Miata before the finish, had the 2002 not decided to go "turtle" entering the Boot. Alton is fine - I caught the tail end of them loading his car on the trailer. Those cars are fairly fragile and I didn't get a good look at the damage so I don't know if the tub is rebuildable.

All told, it was a good weekend - if nothing else for the spectacular weather!! If we could only get some of that in the DC area today...

Haz-Matt

[itbgti]

Dave,

Yes, I remember the wave by on the back straight...the speed at which I caught you I assumed something went wrong.

I do not think you were the red RX-7 that saw me attempt an out braking move that went bad...my brakes were over cooked and I went in too deep, over the curb at the heel of the boot..I talked to Todd Redmond after the race apologizing for that and also thanking him for us having no contact.

I could not find the RX-7 driver who I was protecting the corner against to see if I "baulked" him in anyway.

Yes, I had radios for the restart, and I got by two cars before the turn onto the straight.

Overall, great weekend, and a lot of fun...I started 36th on grid for my first time at the track, so I had a LOT of ground to make up finishing 19th.

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by itbgti:
Dave,

...I started 36th on grid for my first time at the track, so I had a LOT of ground to make up finishing 19th.

26th?? You call that starting badly?? LOL...That's nothing! I can start worse than that...(he said, crying..) http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

How does next to last in a (was it?) 65 car field sound?? On a car that had been soundly damaged the day before.

A couple items...it was great meeting several (famous!) IT dot com-ers, I just wish I wasn't so tied to the car and could have been more social.

Secondly, and I'm sorry to bore the masses with a personal note, but...I want to thank all my friends who pitched in to help me get the non rolling wreck back on the track. From Brian Mushnick who loaned me the porta-power and Jason Benaugh who actually operated it, to Dave Youngren who came thru with an old Hoosier, to Ray Lee Chee and Dave Faita who lent tools and hands, to the Shine guys like Eli and Matt who loaned me a power sander saving hours of hand sanding, to Bob Smart at the Hoosier truck who had the new (old) tire mounted in nanoseconds, to, last but certainly not least, Dick "what a nice drive on the long country road of Watkins Glen" Patullo, who supplied the strut housing, the damper, the disc, and bearings, and seals' and even the grease, LOL.. along with the advice and hard work to help get me going again. I know I was a bit loopy so I am probably forgetting somebody. If so, sorry!

It's a real comliment to have people pitch in like that for you, and I am very grateful. My ribs and body will heal and forget that it ever happened, but I won't ever forget the help from my friends.

All in all, the patched together car did OK with it's different front dampers, mysterious flopping rear end and soft brakes. I had a great time trying to move thru the field and wound up moving from 63rd to 26th...wishing for more green flag laps!

The BMW did one of those little wiggles right in front of me, then nosed into the banded tire wall at the boot entrance. Sad..hate to see the old cars have issues!



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[RSTPerformance]

Just wanted to say congrats to all those that seem to have had great races (and lap times!). Even those that had troubles still seem to have had a great time...

I havn't seen many of you as I have been off at the Natinals all year, so I miss all of you giving me a hard time http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/frown.gif I still keep tabs on all of you though!!! Look for the Red and Silver and Blue and Silver Audi's to return later this fall as the Audi's havn't done much racing (actually the RST Audi's have only had one visit to the track this year and that was the Red and Silver one at Mid Ohio, and it ran without the darn computer so we were a bit slow (70% at best), despite a new faster suspension setup).

At anyrate, we all (The RST gang) miss all of you, and plan on seeing you at NHIS, We will be in Hawaii for the Lime Rock Race, so good luck, and keep us updated!!! Thanks for the great updates online here, as they have been rather entertaining and informative!!!

Raymond

Alan- Get that thing sorted out so we can make a three car Audi train in the front!!!

[JamesB]

Well I do have some carnage shots, so if anyone really wants theirs offline just say so and they will stay in my personal archive only. But here are my pictures, still having an issue with my tele lense (you can tell which ones by the non focal point blurring.) But hey I don't do this for a living.

http://www.baked.net/~crash/gallery/20050724

[moto62]

Nice photos James. Thanks for the oppertunity to view them. The ITA race was great except for being too short. I had a blast dukeing it out with Lorenzo S. and Mark C. while keeping an eye on the battle between Tom B. and Brett D. Those two were really haggling each other. Lots of side by side and tire smoke going into the turns and I believe they may have touched each other maybe once. Now that is some class driving especially at the speeds you achieve at the Glen. Now don't get too cocky because Y'all going down next time we meet yo. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif Glad to see that all drivers with balled up cars are ok to race another day. Overall good event except for the after party food. It was basically appetizers served on a five inch restrictor plate. Kinda left you wondering when they were going to roll out the main course. No problem. We went into town to some bar restaurant deal and had a good meal.
Bill W and Harry A. Good seeing you again. Gregg G. and a slew of others(I'm getting old and the memory lapses). Very nice meeting you all and hope we meet again.
Ray Lee Chee
P.S.- Jake G. did find the showers at the Glen but I'll let him tell that story.

[Dave Zaslow]

James,

Thanks for the great pics. The refrigerator white #4 Golf is a new racecar and was having some teething problems. These are the first photos and I really appreciate seeing them.

Dave Z

[joeg]

Neat Photos; actually I like the different perspectives without the telephoto.

The weather was nice and everyone pretty much behaved themselves in the group, but I cannot say 4 or 5 laps makes a "good", let alone "great" race...but that's the Glen.

Cheers.

[Tom Blaney]

I had a great (but short) race, and I give Brett credit for driving like a pro. He did to me what I usually do to Anthony, so it was a real fun race. I must thank everybody for doing a good job during both qualifying sessions. Although there was quite a disparity in speed between the cars everybody tried to work together to let the faster cars go, and the faster guys didn't really seem to screw up any of the slower cars individual laps.

The Glen still ranks as one of the best tracks and the folks who put on this event always keep it fun and worthwhile to attend.

Tom Blaney

[JamesB]

Thanks for the compliments, I know at summit point I can get great shots since many of the workers know me and will let me up or near the pods which lets me use my wide angle and I can get great shots.

I may be trading up to a D1 low end SLR with a friend who overbought and is dying for my 5700 and its all in one with a good zoom, so I could get over this tele issue when I can use one of my old nikon tele-wides and get some great shots without having to be near the worker stations.

I have fun doing it and I love action shots, that why I hung out at the off camber the most, since there was a lot of good racing going on in the area.

[alfetta95]

Just wanted to thank Alan, Audi driver, for coming to talk to me after the race. Stand up guy, it will be a pleasure to race with him again. A bit hairy moment on the track, but that's racing. Great weather, great racing, when at speed! Nice photos too!

Anyone know what happened at impound? 1st place ITB, red golf was DQ'd.

Now really. Wasn't it nice seeing the Italian make in the middle of all that German and Swedish hardware? :-)

------------------
Todd Redmond
Alfa Romeo Alfetta GT
ITB #95

[dickita15]

I must say the glen weekend was fun. I had never driven the track before but I had been there. Thirty years ago, when I was a young flagger. This was the first time I have tried to drive a track that I did not know as a worker. The first session, as Jake alluded to, it felt like I was driving a country road. Every now and then I would come up on a corner I thought I had seen before, but mostly was like pro rally. I tried to not be in the way but that is a little hard when you do not know were the way is. The 12-minute session included a black flag all so we got maybe 5 laps.

The second session, 20 minutes, was better. We got 8 hot laps. I would come up on a slower car and say to myself maybe I can pass him at...., hell I have no idea where I can pass him. Reviewing the tape my times dropped one to two seconds every lap. Another twenty laps and maybe I would be fast.
The bad new is I qualified 49th. The good news is there were about 20 cars behind me. On the grid a steward type walked up the line and said, “we have a very large field so bunch up by the laces of the boot”. I said fine and tried to figure out where that was. I looked for eyeholes in the guardrail but did not see any. Oh well it worked out.

My start was a little poor. I did not really know where to look. But I had a great time passing cars and maybe got up to 40th or so by the first yellow. After the restart I spun in the lefthander before the toe of the boot and fifteen cars drove by me. I was able to renter and got to repass a few ITC cars before the final yellow.

All the locals were very helpful and the weather was perfect. The full course yellows suck but I guess with ISC rules and a long track you just have to live with it. I would like to thank the Glen Region for hosting the NERRC series. Having the race be NERRC, NYSRRC and MARRS brought out some cool fields. I do regret not having an opportunity to watch any other racing. Being an early group we were on the road for home by 2 p.m.

Dick Patullo
NER ITA Rx7 15

[emwavey]

http://www.baked.net/~crash/gallery/20050724/DSCN3925

Was Gregg is OK?

[Gregg]

Yes, he was, but now that he's had some time to think about what a disaster this season has been, he isn't. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

To go along w/ my comments in that other thread, I'd like to apologize for contributing to the shortness of the race and your extended time under double-yellow. Believe me, I would have preferred to be out there racing with you all past lap #3 and only have my own stupidity to thank impacting your race the way I did.

[emwavey]

Originally posted by Gregg:
Yes, he was, but now that he's had some time to think about what a disaster this season has been, he isn't. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif...

Opps, sorry didn't see the other thread...
but anyway I'm glad to hear you're OK physically. We can talk later about his
mental state. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

If you don't mind, what happened? Did the last race slightly tweek the car's handling predictability?

------------------
-dave
nerdsracing.com (http://www.nerdsracing.com)
8)

[Gregg]

The car was actually handling pretty well most of the weekend. The twitchiness I saw during the Sat AM qualifying was eradicated with some tire pressure change and going over the cornerweighting again.

Pretty simple...I came in the the heel of the boot somewhat hot and trail braked a bit too long. Rear of the car came around and as the nose pointed at the apex I tried to correct. Unfortunately I ran out of room and put the right-front corner into the armco. If it were a tirewall (or more than five feet off the side of the track) the damage might not have ended my day as I really didn't hit that hard, but who's to say.

Again, sorry everyone.

Now about my mental state, Dave? http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Gregg (edited July 26, 2005).]

[joeg]

No need to apologize; that track has no mercy with all that Armco.

The ITB DQ was for being under-weight

[Tom Blaney]

Originally posted by Gregg:
The car was actually handling pretty well most of the weekend. The twitchiness I saw during the Sat AM qualifying was eradicated with some tire pressure change and going over the cornerweighting again.


Jeeze, I was hoping that you were gonna say the the massive power and torque of that Bullet Proof Motor just pulled you right off the track and into the armco.....

[mgyip]

Originally posted by Gregg:
The car was actually handling pretty well most of the weekend. The twitchiness I saw during the Sat AM qualifying was eradicated with some tire pressure change and going over the cornerweighting again.

Reminds me of an old Road & Track P.S. picture of a driver, casually lighting a cigarette with his crashed Ferrari in the background with the caption "Good tires", Mario mused "but definitely NOT great tires".

Armco is more than a bit unforgiving - I've seen my share of very flat and very short cars at the Glen. If you'd only held out for the next turn, you could have used the nice fluffy styrofoam instead - it looks like a miniature snow storm when it gets hit. Glad that you were undamaged (physically) - mentally, you've been damaged for years... http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

With the closely timed double-yellows that kept the field packed together, I felt like I was at Summit Point - in the middle of the ITB race with no one to pass...

[dave parker]

I have very mixed feelings about the race at Watkins Glen this past weekend.
I have never been to the Glen before.
It is a scary fast track with no room or margin for error. That being said once I figured out that it was a momentum track things started to come together. Thanks to the many people who gave advice on how to get around.

The Positives:
Meeting some of the people like Eli Garrett(Shine), Bill and Don (Bildon) although I did not get to talk with Bill, Jake Gulick(who started next to me WAY in the back and finished 25th).
Seeing the MARRS regulars a long way from home.
The chance to race on a piece of sports car racing history.
Eating dinner Saturday night at the Seneca Lodge(another piece of history).
Being able to drive the car back into the trailer with no new damage after the race.

The Negatives:
The surly, unhelpful grid workers. When I came to the grid I was told by the worker there "Your in the back so your grid position does not matter. Just go out in any order that you feel like." What kind of F@#king bullshit is that? Thanks and kudos to Tom Hoffman and Tim Meddaugh who happened to walk by, and were asked by several drivers to straighten things out. Which they did.

The rude security people. Who after the same security guy(#921) followed us around the paddock for fifteen minutes on Friday evening and told us twice that spots we were looking at could not be used as a camping/paddock spot, only then did he go and open up another paddock area for us and quite a few others to use. I guess the out of state tags and the repeated statements of "I have never been here before so I don't know where I can go" meant nothing to him.

The driver of the number 28 ITA car. This car qualified in the back with me. He repeatedly held me up in the twisties where I was all over him, but when we got to the straight sections he would walk away, only to hold me up in the next complex of turns. Then when the first FCY came out, rather than "bunch up" with the rest of the field he lopes along with about one hundred yards between him and the car in front of him. All I wanted to do was get back up to where the ITC race was, I could see it, but he would not help me to get up there. No point by either. When the track went green again I had to dive bomb him in the heel of the boot to get by him. It scared me and him. But I was back into the ITC race finally. Lesson trying to be passed on "Don't race cars that are not in your class."

A scheduled 11 lap race becoming a 9 lap race with 5 laps under FCY. What a drag! It was explained to me later that it is a standard tactic in the northern part of the Northeast division to penalize all the drivers in a race group for the mistakes and poor judgement of a few drivers. Yeah, shit happens and cars wreck in racing, but why make everyone suffer for the mistakes of a few?

I had fun, the positives outweighed the negatives, but I will have to give some serious thought to going back.

cheers
"dangerous" dave parker
wdcr ITC#97

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by dave parker:
A scheduled 11 lap race becoming a 9 lap race with 5 laps under FCY. What a drag! It was explained to me later that it is a standard tactic in the northern part of the Northeast division to penalize all the drivers in a race group for the mistakes and poor judgement of a few drivers. Yeah, shit happens and cars wreck in racing, but why make everyone suffer for the mistakes of a few?


cheers
"dangerous" dave parker
wdcr ITC#97



Maybe you can explain this a little further.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)
http://www.flatout-motorsports.com/images/misc/RX-7_Avitar.jpg

[spnkzss]

I'll have to agree with "Dangerous Dave" on the majority of what he had to say. The track is fun, but for the first time in my life I was actually scared. The spin that I had stopping a mear 18 inches from the armco at the top of the boot in the left hand turn onto NASCAR straight was not as bad as going 20-30mph faster than someone through the fast sweeping right hander after the chicane and meeting them at the apex with nowhere to go. (Wow what a run on sentence that was).

All in all I'm happy. I finished 5th and took home 3rd place MARRS Points on a track I've never driven before. It was well worth going up and look forward to doing it again next year.

Spanky
#03 ITC 1990 Honda Civic ITC

[JamesB]

So this was you?

http://www.baked.net/~crash/albums/20050724/DSCN3755.jpg

http://www.baked.net/~crash/albums/20050724/DSCN3756.jpg

[joeg]

[quote]Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt:
[B] Maybe you can explain this a little further.

Andy--I'll comment: While that is not a rule for the "North Northeast", the Glen management does not like disabled cars near/ partially on the track. What they changed for our group was to go FCY instead of the usual "Black Flag All".

As for shortening the race, I suspect that was a schedule issue and an attempt to get to lunch break on time.

Like I said previously..."that's the Glen.

I had more fun last year when our cars were with the Spec Miatas...a whole different perspective. I will note that extra effort was made this year to get the cars bunched at the opening green and it worked. I usually start when the yellows come down a few turns befor the main straight, but at least this year everyone should have gotten a glimpse at the waiving green.

Cheers.

[RSTPerformance]

Dave Parker and others-

Your statement: "It was explained to me later that it is a standard tactic in the northern part of the Northeast division to penalize all the drivers in a race group for the mistakes and poor judgment of a few drivers. Yeah, shit happens and cars wreck in racing, but why make everyone suffer for the mistakes of a few?"

IS SO FAR OFF BASE THAT THE RUMOR NEEDS TO BE STOPED NOW!!!

I can tell you first hand that all of the operating stewards are volunteers and they are at these events for the same reason all of you are, to see or have great races. I have not met anyone in SCCA that likes to see full course yellows and I know that they are avoided at all costs. A full course yellow is treated as a last resort just before a black flag all and/or a red flag.

The reason that Watkins Glenn has more full course yellows than most tracks is a whole story in itself and I do not have all the answers on it so I will not go into that other than to tell you that the rescue crew at Watkins Glenn is run separately from SCCA and due to this some accidents are treated similar to NASCAR events. I can assure you that I have personally worked in the tower at Watkins Glenn with the stewards in that region and they all want you to have a green race flag to flag. I can honestly say that the stress level in the tower far exceeds that of any driver or crew during a full course yellow. They are doing everything possible to get you back to green faster.

I would suggest that you talk to whoever told this to you and ask that you have them along with yourself apologize for the insult in effort taken by the volunteers that make your event what it is.

Sorry to get defensive, but this is something that I have always herd as a driver as well, and after being on the "other side" it is the farthest from the truth.

Raymond “sorry to go on a rant, but I didn’t like the comment http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif” Blethen

[spnkzss]

Originally posted by JamesB:

So this was you?




That would be me. The real scary part of that was on the left hand side of that photo there was 2 flaggers at the top of the boot that I was watching. They weren't paying too much attention, or giving me any direction. I figured of all the flaggers to find they were the best because they could tell me when it was clear. The only thing I got out of the deal was the yellow flag was handed from one flagger to the other. Me in my infinite wisdom thought "maybe if I back up a little and face them they will get the hint" all while facing counter race. That was kind of scary turning back around not knowing what was coming up the hill since the hint was not working (being male I should know hints don't work). All of this happened while Big John ,who helped me build the car, was on the side lines in his truck watching. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif Dangerous Dave gave me some pretty good advice that I am sure I will use in the future. Point at the corner workers so you know and they know you want their help.

Luckily I was able to get back out without getting hit. Thank you to everyone that paid attention to the yellow flag and came through the corner cautiously http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

Spanky
#03 ITC 1990 Honda Civic WDCR

[mgyip]

Originally posted by joeg:
Like I said previously..."that's the Glen.


Understood - that's part of the frustration for many of the drivers, not just MARRS competitors but competitors in general that The Glen management's critera for Black Flag All or FCY is too cautious.

During the incident involving the blue CRX, that could have easily been covered by a local yellow since it only affected the heel of the boot to the exit onto the Nastycar track. The incident involving the 2002 falls under the same auspices - neither car completely blocked the track or even blocked more than 1/2 lane of the track since they were both stuffed into Armco. Had a car been blocking the majority of the track then a FCY or BFA would be warranted depending on the position of the car and the severity of the incident. From my limited racing experience at Slummit Point, when a car is in a bad place (track out point for example), a local yellow and good workers are all that's necessary to get it cleaned up quickly.

Speaking of workers - I spoke with a DC Region flagger who was is generally unflappable but was visibly upset that The Glen mgmt forces him to stay behind the fence AT ALL TIMES. His comment was that "I fully accept the risks of being in front of the fence - that's part of what I do as a flagger/worker"

I've been to the Glen for several years now with the MARRS series - so many times that some of the locals know me and throw things at me just like they do at home. I find the track incredibly challenging both from a mental and technical standpoint. However, after paying big bucks and travelling 7 hrs one way for perhaps 7 laps of racing, I'm starting to re-evaluate whether this track is worth my time and effort.

Flame away - I'm fairly certain I've offended someone somewhere...

Haz-Matt

[dave parker]

Raymond
I have no reason to apologize.
The comments about the grid workers are factual and can be confirmed by several other drivers, some of whom frequent here.
The fact is that the track went FCY for the first incident that could have been handled under a local yellow or go BFA, get the cars off the course and work the incident. The second incident, the BMW on its roof in the entrance to the boot, could also have been handled under a FCY or BFA with a minimal loss of race laps. Both drivers involved in these incidents are good friends of mine, and were out of the cars and ok.

The trouble is that the Glen safety crew does not do "hot" pulls and that greatly inhibits the SCCA region putting on the race.
I flagged for three years before I started racing, I still hold a regional F&C license. No one is more concerned for the safety of the volunteers out there than me. Most of them are friends whom I have hoisted more than a few ales with. But the facts are that the Group 3 racers got hosed.

Not only did someone tell me that this happens, I got to see it happen up close and personal. I understand your being defensive concerning the local volunteers,I would and have done the same with our DC Region workers. I also understand that the operating steward at a race at the Glen has a "track representative" standing with them "advising" them on what can and cannot go on. I am sure that after Alton Fryer rolled his BMW, the "adviser" said that we were done get us off the track.

I do invite you to come to Summit Point and watch the EV crew do a hot pull. The racers cooperate and let them get their job done so that we can race. Everybody gets the most out of the track time.

I think that your rant is unwarranted. But I do not begrudge you your opinion on the matter. That is the best part about a free country, you can have your opinion.

cheers
"dangerous" dave parker
wdcr ITC#97


[This message has been edited by dave parker (edited July 26, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by dave parker (edited July 26, 2005).]

[dickita15]

yes dave the glen has a management problem, but I think what got young mr blethen going is your generalzation about how they do it up north. I too have hoisted a few with summit flaggers and they are trained dedicated and competant. but they are not the only ones.
Dick Patullo
NER SCCA

[RSTPerformance]

Dave-

Dick is partially correct, the other part missing is that it IS NOT SCCA thats making it a FCY, it is that "advisor" whom allows us to play. I don't like it nor do I agree with the advisors need to have a FCY for almoast every incident, I also found multiple corner workers that work for the Glenns "click" to be unfreindly. The Glenn does this for every "Club" or "Organization that runs at the track from NASCAR to local club stuff.

I have no opinion on the grid workers, they might have been poor, wasn't thier so I can't judge that, I can say that any race you go to at NHIS or Lime Rock you will not have that problem (Different people).

And as far as picking up cars while the track is "Hot" that is not an issue with the Northeast SCCA either, All of the SCCA rescue crews can handle that without an issue. Remember that the Glenn is not using SCCA rescue workers it is completely handled by the track. Bash the "Glenn" (actually I think it is DCI) workers all you want, just don't say that anyone in SCCA doesn't want to see you play, and have a fair race, its not fair to the hard work they put in, and if you don't think I am telling you the truth then I invite you to come to the tower with me, I am sure that I can arange something.

Raymond "I can actually say that I have learned a lot this year" Blethen

PS: Dave, just trying to educate you on a little bit of the other side, I have found out they actually do care... a lot.

[dave parker]

Raymond
I know that the people in the tower(and elsewhere at the track) care. I have friendships (both at the track and away from the track) with quite a few of the stewards from the DC Region. I have had many "good" trips to the tower. I have no reason to doubt your word on the dedication of the SCCA volunteers because I have seen it first hand as well as living it myself. I have seen you be a stand up kinda guy here on this very forum. I too operate that way, if I am wrong I will admit it. You can ask anyone in the DC Region how many "jobs" I have had at one time within the region. The SCCA is a club, and a club functions successfully from the efforts of its members.

Perhaps, what the region that is running an event at the Glen needs to do is explain the operating procedures in the Supplemental Regulations(ALL drivers read the Supps,right?). This would help everyone to understand up front what is going to happen. This would also help to dispel any rumors floating around.

I still had fun at the event despite the problems. I will however think twice before going now that I know about the over-management problem at the Glen. There still is no excuse for what happened on the grid. An apology is still owed to the drivers for that fiasco.

cheers
"dangerous" dave parker
wdcr ITC#97

[RSTPerformance]

Dave-

Thank you for the understanding... thats all I wanted http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

and also I agree that a notice (part of or not part of the sups) should be included, and I will continue to support that more notices are given to drivers as SCCA continues to change due to a tracks requirements, not SCCA's.

As far as Grid, I hope someone from that region read and addressed your complaint even though they didn't coment on it here. I know that many people read this site but don't comment, probably for good reason http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

Anyway, thanks for listening to my point, see you at the track and thank you for speeking your mind, I think it is good to hear what people think sometimes http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

Raymond

[emwavey]

Originally posted by JamesB:

...But here are my pictures, still having an issue with my tele lense (you can tell which ones by the non focal point blurring.) But hey I don't do this for a living.

http://www.baked.net/~crash/gallery/20050724


Excellent shots James... thanks for sharing these. I'm sending you an email with a request...




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-dave
nerdsracing.com (http://www.nerdsracing.com)
8)

[JamesB]

Thanks for the compliments. I will keep an eye out for an e-mail. hopefully you wont get stuffed by my spam filter.

[emwavey]

James,

I'm not sure the message got through to you. Basically I'd like to use a couple of shots in the South Jersey newsletter. Meg Meyer, who won the ITC race, is in our region and I'd like to use an image or two with her story for the next newsletter.

Here's my email address:
emwavey @ yahoo.com (remove spaces)

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-dave
nerdsracing.com (http://www.nerdsracing.com)
8)

[lateapex911]

Dave...

One guy in grid approached me, maybe apologetically, and explained that they were surprsed by the size of our group..it was 65 cars, and they had no markings for more than was it 55 or so?

So they sent me to the gravel. As for me, I might just as well have started last, LOL> THey did get it sorted out, but I know we are all used to being put in a spot and then we can get ready.

In hindsight, I probably should have started last, as the car hadn't turned a wheel except for the trip from paddock to grid after "the hit"...I'm sure at least the two guys behind me would have felt better, LOL.

In a seperate matter, would you shoot me a private email, addy below?? Thanks!

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[16v]

I went away on vacation after the race so I just got some photos uploaded

http://www.the16v.com/SCCA/05/05glen/images/DSC_8730.jpg

http://www.the16v.com/SCCA/05/05glen/images/DSC_8807.jpg

http://www.the16v.com/SCCA/05/05glen/images/DSC_8875.jpg


http://the16v.com/SCCA/

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Doug
NER.org (http://www.ner.org) webmaster
the16v.com (http://www.the16v.com) Photography
briansgarage.com (http://www.briansgarage.com)