Rumor has it

[Bill Miller]

That the entry for the National at LRP is $385. I guess some people are so desperate for track time, they don't care what they have to pay.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Andy Bettencourt]

It's a National Bill. Ya have to go to them if ya want to get to the Big Dance, no?

Bottom line, don't blame the drivers...blame the track. LRP has put the screws to the local Regions in a big way. If there were more tracks up here the Secret Valley of Speed would vanish.

This year is the first year of the crazy, unexpected and unwarrented track rental increases. It would think it would take a year for the drivers to decide if the value is there for them or not.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)
http://www.flatout-motorsports.com/images/misc/RX-7_Avitar.jpg

[16v]

I was told it was only $375. But this is the IT forum so who cares about Nationals?

[Andy Bettencourt]

It is $375 unless you run one of the classes that has the $10 fee like SRF...

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)
http://www.flatout-motorsports.com/images/misc/RX-7_Avitar.jpg

[lateapex911]

Lime Rock management has been, from what my sources tell me, rather unsporting in their negotiations and tactics, and the net is that rental 2 day wheel to wheel racing) is about $44,000.00 dollars.

Which puts regions in a tough spot. Gotta have the race, but the region can only lose so much on it. So they need to decide at what price point of the curve will yield the most drivers.

I can see that a weak region could be essentially put out of business by such an economic hit. (An 80% increase in one year, and it will, they say, increase again and again)

I know that the porsche club race was big $ to enter, and their usual rain came down yet again, further hurting their entry, which was in the 120 (?) range. I spoke with an organizer of their club who mentioned the sale of sponsorship (30K worth) made the event possible, but he doubts that they can repeat that number with such traditionally bad weather and poor turnout...

Which means...the numbers case for a new track for NER becomes a bit easier.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by 16v:
I was told it was only $375. But this is the IT forum so who cares about Nationals?


Doug,

You can't possibly not see the writing on the wall. How much you want to bet that the 1-day Regionals at LRP hit $300 by the end of next year (if not sooner).

And yes Andy, you have to run Nationals if you want to go to the Runoffs. But you sure don't have to run at LRP! At least at a National, you are supposedly guaranteed a min. amount of laps/time.


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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[dickita15]

the nationals are the toughest at lime rock because of car counts. a national at lime rock historicly draws 180 to 200 cars while a regonal draws 250 to 275, thanks of course to us and our miata cousins. 2005 saw a 80% rent increase. we are not sure what 06 will bring but we were told it will be a couple of thousand. when the region sets an entry fee the have to estimate the car count. this year with a significant increase in fees that has been difficult. no one really knows what the turn out will be. there is no historical model at the new prices.

for next year the national have another variable in that we do not know how many miatas will run national. while my guess is that few will run for national points the will probably fill a race group with guys that just want to race.
dick patullo

[irondragon]

Here is my take on why LRP has become a very expensive track at which to race.
First: It is located in an area where land values and property taxes are high.

Second : It is located in an area where racing is not popular. For this reason one half of most all weekend race days are not available. The track has to charge more per day for the one w/e day they can rent it.

Third: The track has been bought/sold a number of times in the last 10-15 years. Market forces have pushed up the going price each time and buyers have had to deal with debt service instead of putting money into the facility. There has been/was a 'paving surcharge' payed by all the clubs, but at this time there seems to be no admission, by present owners, of obligation to do any paving.

My sense is that LRP is an example of all that can go wrong with a track, from the perspective of a club racer. As LRP raises fees, other tracks in the NE are induced to do the same. It is a market economy.

My conclusion: NER SCCA needs to get going toward creating a new track. Surprisingly, I have been saying this ever louder for some years now. Not only that, I have offered my efforts as a Civil Engineer and racer toward locating a good site and developing it. Unfortunately the NER New Track people are so fixated on the idea that it has to happen within about 25 miles of Sturbridge Massachusetts, while I have tried to suggest other locales; that they simply do not even reply to my offers/suggestions.

So I offer these as the alternatives: Pay LRP and other tracks what they demand, or really get serious about NER, perhaps w/ other participants, building a new track in a place where it can happen.

I don't always rant in this way, but I am frustrated by NER's New Track people who have accomplished nothing because of what I believe is a very narrow view of where the track can be located.

Let's find a place, buy it and build it.
Then perhaps LRP and WGI will reconsider their fees.

Best Regards - Bill Miskoe 26 ITS NER
[email protected]

[lateapex911]

Bill, from my perspective you are off base on your, as you put it, "rant" on the new track people.

If there is a 25 miles from Sturbridge rule, it's news to the guys who have driven to sites in Vermont, New Hampshire, Ct, and Rhode Island.

There are two major problems with the whole concept...one is a location that can get by the permit process, and the second is money.

From what I understand, the rest is easy...LOL

And I also understand that the money part is by far the lesser of the issues.

If anyone can find a location in New England that is permitable, and can fit the numbers requirement (which are higher now that LRP is 80% more costly), I am sure that the site will be given every consideration.

Lime Rocks charter, BTW, has always been no racing on Sundays, and their high noise events have always been tightly regualted as well. The issue is more of demand outstripping supply.

The cost problems..and here I go spreading rumours, stem from the sale of the Barber school, and the contract the school has with the track, that, when they were both owned by the same guy, made the school a more economicly attractive proposition. Now, the school rent is coming up short, and the make up is in other areas. I am not sure if there is a shred of truth to that, so take it with a shaker of salt.

And NASCAR...the tail that wags the dog...I am not sure how successful (read profitable) the NASCAR effort has been at Lime Rock, but it is obvious that they are putting many of their eggs in that basket.

Bottom line is that we are fairly powerless, and I agree that we need a track where we have a voice...

No matter what though, I doubt that NER will be the sole "owner", and I doubt that they should be either, as nice as it sounds to own our "own" track.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Tom Blaney]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
Bottom line is that we are fairly powerless, and I agree that we need a track where we have a voice...



I am afraid your incorrect here Jake. This one is very simple, "you vote with your wallet". I for one have decided to limit my events at Lime Rock, as I did at Nelsons. If enough people follow this tried and true rule, sombody will figure out how to run that track more affordably

[dpc]

Dick, did you actually call SM's part of your family. God bless you. dave

[dickita15]

Originally posted by dpc:
Dick, did you actually call SM's part of your family. God bless you. dave

well dave some families are more disfunctional than others. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif

seriously in our area at least regional classes are about great racing. in other threads people have suggested that regional only classes get less consideration from scca. I understand that that happens in some areas of the country but not in the northeast.

of course I hope you guys don't start feeling superior next year when SM is a national class. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

dick patullo

[This message has been edited by dickita15 (edited July 17, 2005).]