Club Racing meeting this Friday

[ulfelder]

I can't make it to the meeting this month - we're taking the kids to Washington so they can look at the people who steal all our money. : )

Anybody free to fill in as a Driver Rep from the IT community?

Steve U
Flatout Motorsports
ITS 05

[RSTPerformance]

Hi All-

I went to the meeting last night and many things were discussed to keep our region and events running smoothly. Big kudos to all those that actually make this happen for us. If any of you driver’s haven’t gone to one of the meetings you should go just to get an appreciation for how much work is done before an event just to make it happen. It still amazes me how much they actually do...

Two discussions that you may want to know about... oh and my opinion:

A) Drivers will now be required to wear a different colored (fire proof or melt resistant http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif ) wrist bands on their left wrist. DON'T COMPLAIN TO THE REGISTRATION PEOPLE ABOUT THIS. It is our (drivers) fault that the region is forced into doing this. On a few different occasions last year as well as in our first event this year drivers have "snuck" onto the track without being properly registered, if registered at all. This is or could be a huge issue and the region plans on enforcing rules more stringent than they have in the past.

My Opinion: This is an excellent idea, and if you don't like it, then find someone to give you the gossip, and yell at the drivers who caused this change.

B) SM and SSM are grouped together and will likely be oversubscribed at every race.

My Opinion: To resolve this issue I think that the best option is to split the qualifying sessions (maybe shorten them slightly say from 20 minutes to 15 minutes) into two groups SM & SSM. Make it so that you have to qualify to get into the race. The cars that do not qualify for the race can run in a consolation race in either ITB/ITS or (even better I think) ITA/ITC. SM & SSM run very comparable times to these cars and the Miata’s are already classified in ITA so it is a perfect match in my opinion. At our first event we ran short on time because we gave both classes their own race group, their for I do not think making two race groups is the best idea. SS cars are also grouped with the SM & SSM cars and IMO they should be taken out now and put in with the ITS/ITB cars. They are grouped with ITB in many other regions and I think that the grouping works well. So in short the following might be a schedule for the cars effected.

Qualifying:

Group 1: SM (15 Minutes)

Group 1A: SSM (15 Minutes)

Group 2: ITS/ITB/SSB/SSC (20 Minutes)

Group 3: ITA/ITC (20 Minutes)

Race:

Group 1/1A: SM/SSM (20 Laps or 30 minutes)

Group 2: ITS/ITB/SSB/SSC (20 Laps or 30 minutes)

Group 3: ITA/ITC/Constellation race for SM & SSM (20 Laps or 30 minutes)


Again many other issues/topics were discussed, but I thought these might be of the greatest interest. Please give feedback as most of the people that attend the meeting and run your club lurk around the different forums so your comments will get back to the club racing board. (Do you like these ideas, don’t like them, or do you have other ideas that might work)


Raymond Blethen

[This message has been edited by RSTPerformance (edited April 23, 2005).]

[Andy Bettencourt]

Ray,

Help me understand why splitting ran us short on time. There was a group combined (eliminated) so we still only ran 7 groups as was the original schedule. No additional run group was added to the overall schedule.

The reason we ran out of time IMHO was because we had 1 10 min qualifier and then 1 15 minute qualifier. This takes WAY longer than 1 20 minute qualifier and it is still longer than a single 25 minute due to change over etc...

Don't penalize the classes that show up. I think that is the wrong way to go. SSM and SM are two different classs. If they can't be split to make things work efficiently, then I would think you need to look at the undersubscibed "Regional only" classes for compromise.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[gran racing]

In cases where there are numerous cars in a field, I do like having the group split into two shorter qual. sessions. As far as having to qualify to race...I'm not such a big fan of this unless there are no other options. People come to race with their group and it is very disappointing when they are unable to. It can also be a bit embarassing for the racer not to be quick enough to race with their group especially when they have friends and family at the track. Or if this is going to be done, it would be nice if it were put into the supps so people at least know this before hand.

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[RSTPerformance]

Andy-

The design of the schedule was made based on 7 race goups.

R1/G1: ITA/ITC
R2/G2: FS/FA/FC/FF/FM/CFC/S2/ASR/CSR/DSR
R3/G3: ITS/ITB
R4/G4: GT1/GT2/GT3/T1/T2/T3/AS/ITW/SPO
R5/G5: SM/SSM/SSB/SSC
R6/G6: SRF/GTL/EP/FP/GP/HP/SPU/Legand
R7/G7: FV/F500/NCF

None of those groups were combined or eliminated. They were expanded to the following 8 race groups:

R1/G1: ITA/ITC
R2/G2: FS/FA/FC/FF/FM/CFC/S2/ASR/CSR/DSR
R3/G3: ITS/ITB
R4/G4: GT1/GT2/GT3/T1/T2/T3/AS/ITW/SPO
R5/G5: SM/SSB/SSC
R6/G5A: SSM
R7/G6: SRF/GTL/EP/FP/GP/HP/SPU/Legand
R8/G7: FV/F500/NCF

We raced until 6:38pm. I am trying to figure out your suggestion on the issue, so let me know if I got it correct. The Comp Board should make our normal 7 race group schedule into an 8 race group schedule and shorten the track time for each driver by 10% or so to allow the time necessary for a 8th group?

So now that you see that we had 8 race groups can you offer up a new suggestion??? or you say we should cut a race group... what race group from the above should we cut so that the masses of Miata's can have fun???

Dave-

You offered your opinion that you didn't think you would like having to run a consolation race because it would be to embarrasing... I wont make comments about the embarrasing part, this is racing!!! Can you help by offering up a good suggestion on how to resolve the issue. An option that wont please everyone is better than no option at all.

Everyone-

Don't just critisize different ideas, offer suggestions on how to fix the problems. Feel free to say something doesn't work and why, but also tell us how YOU would fix the problem. When thinking of resolutions also remember this is a club and even the one guy who shows up in the F500 is a member that should have the option to race. Also remember that the 5-10 FV that show up have a bigger race class than most of the other classes not to mention a better race than just about every other race... its just less exciting cause they are not playing bumper cars http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif.

Please please please offer up your suggestions/opinions on this issue, I know the class isn't an IT class, but it does effect your race group. If you don't give your opinion then don't complain on how the day unfolds even if your the last race group and your race gets shortened to 8 minutes due to time restraints.

Raymond "trying to get some feedback to make you happy" Blethen


[This message has been edited by RSTPerformance (edited April 24, 2005).]

[dpc]

Andy is right, the problem at NHIS was that there were two short Qualifing slots, should have been one longer one. But nothing could be done after the fact. dave

[Jake]

For the record, I fully agree with Ray’s suggestion. On Dave’s point, I’m not sure that running the slower Miatas (potentially competitively) against slower ITA and ITC cars is any more embarrassing than running dead last (and getting lapped, and lapped again) in an all-Miata race. Personally, if I was running dead last in ITA, and they asked me to run in an ITB field (sans points), I don’t think I would feel all that bad. It might even be more fun!

As for the point of split qualifying – DO IT, AND DO IT MORE!

Listen, I don’t think I’m alone in saying that I LOVE large race fields, but I HATE large qualifying fields. If I had to run 45-50 car fields at LRP each race I would have an absolute blast! It’s more fun for the driver’s throughout the race, and even makes a better race to watch. It’s the 20-25 car races that always seem to get boring at the end. (when they start turning into time trials) The only problem with the large fields is trying to get a clean lap or two in qualifying. But this is SOOOO easy to remedy. Instead of running 40 cars for a 20min qual – give me 8-10 minutes with 20 cars and I’ll get those laps in so much easier.

Jake Fisher
NER ITA MR2 #22

[Andy Bettencourt]

OK, 8 groups. Dang I hate that!

1. As I stated above, the reason the day went long was because the logistics of the event did not allow for any delays or changes. Haveing a 10 min. qualifier and then a 15 MQ, is NOT the way to be senesitive about minutes. As soon as I heard there was a 5A run group added, I ASSUMED that they would go with 1 20 MQ because time would be tight. Having said that, it was a COOL idea that would have been awesome had time permitted...

2. We do not have one class that is oversubscibed. SM and SSM are two different classes. Split them up throughout the day and move some of the others around to accomodate. ITS, ITA, SM and SSM are the 4 bigest classes in the Region, don't penalize those who show up.

I know you SHOULDN'T combine "wing's and things" but according to mylaps.com ONLY 6 CARS RAN IN GROUP 7. That stinks!

3. I also suggest looking strongly at the 6-car ITE field, the 1-car SPO field, the 5-car SPU field and the 1-car GTL field when considering whose track time to shorten. As you can imaging, it would be frustrating for top classes to lose value for thier dollar when there are 1-cars classes running around at full track-time.

I will do some additional analysis of the run groups to provide a more concrete suggestion (although I am SURE Brian and his team have done a fine job) that I will submit to the committee.

Bottom line? I think we REALLY need to find a way to shuffle so as not to hurt the large groups...the small groups need to bulk up...

AND REMEMEBR, SM and SSM are different - and SHOULD be split. Some Regions run ITS and ITA together...not possible here, so they don't. Same should apply to SM and SSM.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[MMiskoe]

6:30 on track? I am amazed the residents of Canterbury didn't organize a raid at 6:01 when the sounds of racing didn't stop.

Splitting up qualifying into two sessions that allowed your best to count was nice, but would not outweigh the dissapointment of having to race in a second tier group. Ask anyone who has had a problem during qualifying and got poor, or no times and started near or at the back. At least they get to still work their way up and have a chance at where they should be laptime wise.

Having 7 car run groups is the key to the problem. All group 8 did was lengthen the schedule. If those 7 cars had been added to different run group, much of the problem would never have been seen. I know so little about formula cars I shouldn't pass judgement on what is acceptable for mixing of classes. But based on what seems to be acceptable for difference in lap times at an enduro, I see no reason they couldn't have been found a home in another run group. Look at some of the differences in lap times in the GT/ITE/SPO/AS group.

[Jake]

True - racing in another group because you had a problem in qualifying would really suck.

Let's hear it for bigger race groups (even if it means more of a mix of fast/slow cars) and more split qualifying sessions!

For those who have the pleasure of running Enduro's, you know what I mean. Last race of the year for me is usually the EMRA enduro - often more than 45 cars at LRP with times that range from :59 - 1:12. Most fun race of the year!

[gran racing]

Ray – If the qualify to run with your designated race group is listed in the sups (as I recommended), that’s fine. And I personally am not worried about being embarrassed with running in another group because I couldn’t qualify. BUT I did speak with other drivers in ITA last year who were, so this is a real and valid point whether we agree with it or not. Again, if it’s in the supps then people know this in advance.

The point about having mechanical problems when trying to qualify is also another valid point. Think about the long road trips you’ll be taking this year. Something happens to the car; wouldn’t you be a little disappointed not being able to run in your group?

Another possible solution is to do it by who registered first. After X cars, when the next one registers a message could pop up that states the field is oversubscribed and explain how the process works (car drops out and next car in line races). I’m not sure which solution makes more sense; probably the qualify to race (again, add to the supps). Being selfish, I’m all for the “qualify to race” (as long as nothing brakes on the car during the qual. session). J

I'm with Jake, the bigger the field the better!

------------------
Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[bg43wex]

Such a pleasure to tune in this morning and see a constructive discussion going on.

thanx for the compliment Andy, I just love a good butt smooch on Mondays.

combining classes has two issues.
1. safety in the braking areas.
Many open wheel cars have tremendous closing speeds due to down force from the wings even thought they have similar hp as other cars, none of those cars have much for a mirror so many of the drivers rely on what they think is around them when they enter a corner, if a much faster car approaches after your last look in the mirror the chances of something bad happening is high.

2. Quality of event
If you are grouped with a class that is much faster the chances of being lapped a few times during a race is potential, I for one would be unhappy to only recieve a 15-16 lap race verses the 20 lapper the fast cars you are running with would recieve. less laps x same entry fee = bummed out entrant.

what the board is looking at is reworking classes in order to keep the 7 group format, in all likelyhood some open wheel cars as well as small bore and big bore will have to adapt to some changes.

it is possible that sm and ssm will recieve seperate classes with the slowest qualifiers being moved to ITA, or a class with room. this is all based on subscription rates at each event, but there are to my knowledge 30 cars on the wait list for a NARRC #'s, this means their are 140 potential cars which would make for two full classes plus overage possible.

we have not seen this many cars at one event but it may happen.

the club board welcomes your input.

thanx brian m

one note on the two qualifing session at the last event, this practice has been done for a long time. It's done so that if on the first day out your car has a problem you get a second chance to repair and qualify, In all likely hood with rising counts you have seen the last of this practice..

[This message has been edited by bg43wex (edited April 25, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by bg43wex (edited April 25, 2005).]

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by bg43wex:
thanx for the compliment Andy, I just love a good butt smooch on Mondays.



No problem Brian, with a butt that big, why not? http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[Greg Amy]

These mental images are making me wince...

[JohnRW]

"No problem Brian, with a butt that big, why not?"

What happens at Lime Rock...stays at Lime Rock.

Haven't I said that before ?

[This message has been edited by JohnRW (edited April 25, 2005).]