How does one run "not for points"

[Andy Bettencourt]

We will be using some of our SM's in the ITA class (double duty) to test Hoosiers and Kumho's. Because it will be the second run group of the weekend for me, and I don't care about points (and frankly, a SM prepped Miata is a mid-pack car in the NE at best), I want to specifiy "not for points" with the points keepers...can it be done? Should it be done? I will be RACING out there but I want to make sure I don't take points away from some who are wanting them...(chances are I won't finish high enough up in an SM anyway but...)

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[irondragon]

Andy:
In some equestrian events, what you are trying to do is called riding 'hor's de concours'. (Out of the competition)
Never heard of it formally in car racing. Though I have finished that way a few times.
Could you not achieve what you want by just turning off your transponder??
Best Regards - Bill Miskoe

[IP2GSR]

Originally posted by irondragon:
Andy:
Could you not achieve what you want by just turning off your transponder??
Best Regards - Bill Miskoe

Or just not finishing the last lap....

Dave

[Matt Rowe]

It might vary a little series to series, but MARRS points keeping only applies points to cars with a MARRS sticker on the car. If you already have the sticker you can tape over it and they typically won't record points. From my own observations they are 100% accurate on this, but the sample size is a little small. What series were you planning on (not) running in?

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~Matt Rowe
ITA Shelby Charger
MARRS #96

[dave parker]

Andy,
Yes it is possible. In the DC Region we have the MARRS(MidAtlantic Road Racing Series)points series. If you do not want to run for points then you remove or coverup your MARRS stickers before gridding for your race.

Of course since you are in New England you might not be able to get there from here. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
cheers
dave parker
wdcr ITC#97

[JohnRW]

Originally posted by IP2GSR:
Or just not finishing the last lap....

Bingo. Of course, sometimes you never know if you're on the 'last lap'.

I've seen Pro SRF guys do this at Nat'ls, and seen 'out of Division' Nat'l guys do this at Regionals. I once paid an on-line compliment to a Pro guy who 'retired' a couple of laps early, but his story was that his Stack dash was lit up like a Christmas tree and that he really wanted to stay in the battle. Har. I'll take a podium any way I can get one. And NEVER compliment anyone on their sportsmanship again. Har again.

Talk to the Chief Steward, and/or the Series Administrator, of whatever series you're dealing with. The conversation will be appreciated, and they'll find a way to accomodate you.

[RKramden]

1 1/2 years ago (I know that is ancient history to a driver) Ken Payson ran in the NARRC runoffs, IIRC, and withdrew from the competition by making a request to the chief steward. Well, it might have been 2 1/2 years, back in the Dark Ages, when we all wore cloth helmets.

Serge got the First place points even though he finished behind Ken, and the SM championship along with it.

Ken said he was out for fun, not to run in the championship.

So, the answer is simply: Tell the Chief Steward that you want to withdraw.

(Or, don't go to impound, but then you might get points for being disqualified. :-) )

D

p.s. I think that was the year the Serge got the Vavoline award for Road Racers as well, by the smallest of margins. Nobody knew it would end up that way, but it sure was nice.

[This message has been edited by RKramden (edited March 11, 2005).]

[Blix]

Originally posted by irondragon:
Andy:

Never heard of it formally in car racing. Though I have finished that way a few times.



You obviously don't follow the ALMS...right now Aston Martin is all bent out of round because Masarati has been given permission to run a car not for point because it is too long past the wheel base in the back.

E

[16v]

I think there are some other underlying issues keeping the Maserati from full entry.

[irondragon]

Andy:
Me again. Thanks for your kind references to ALMS, but the reasons I have finished out of contention for a trophy, unfortunately have had nothing to do with the car. Just me, the driver.
SCCA has renewed my licence so I'll be back. Probably way back.
I live ten miles from NHIS and am looking out at almost three feet of snow on the ground. Let's all get together and think about sunshine.
Best regards - Bill Miskoe

[lateapex911]

So, with a month to go, will the track be open? And if you go off, will you need snow tires?

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[RKramden]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
So, with a month to go, will the track be open? And if you go off, will you need snow tires?


The track rented some snow blowers (the industrial sized ones) three years ago, and yes, you neeeded snow tires (or mud tires, depending on the location) if you went off.

I have a picture (somewhere) of the Chief of Flaging standing on top of a snow bank that was higher than he was. Made a good turn in marker at 3. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

[bill f]

Andy,

Why not just start at the back of the pack and do your testing from there? If you also end the session/race early, after half way, you will get credit (if you need it), and will accomplish the mission.

Just a thought.

Bill Frieder

[stevel]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt:
We will be using some of our SM's in the ITA class (double duty) to test Hoosiers and Kumho's. Because it will be the second run group of the weekend for me, and I don't care about points (and frankly, a SM prepped Miata is a mid-pack car in the NE at best), I want to specifiy "not for points" with the points keepers...can it be done? Should it be done? I will be RACING out there but I want to make sure I don't take points away from some who are wanting them...(chances are I won't finish high enough up in an SM anyway but...)

AB



Andy, if you don't wanna run for points I'd be glad to help YOU out and run the miata in ITA. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif Hey, what are friends for, right?

steve

P.S. I can't believe I'm the first one to say that!

[stevel]

[This message has been edited by stevel (edited March 14, 2005).]

[dave parker]

I was asked by Beth Mills at the DC Region club office to alert everyone here that "turning off" your transponder is not an acceptable way to not run for points in the DC region MARRS series. By "turning off" your transponder you are requiring Timing & Scoring to increase their workload signifigantly because one person will be tasked with timing you manually with a stopwatch.
Sounds like a great way to be shown the "black flag" and piss off the T&S people to me.
cheers
dave parker
wdcr ITC#97

[16v]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
So, with a month to go, will the track be open?


I went up to shoot the rallyX on Sunday. As I passed NHIS they had a couple "Offical snow plowing trucks of NASACR" pushing the white stuff around at the entrance to the main gate. It certainly didn't look much deeper than what I have here in MA.
On my way back down 106 they had the whole entrance area cleared to pavement. I'd think that with the predicted 40 degree days coming up it will put a dent in whatever snow pack is actually on the course.

of course we'll probably get another dumping in a week or two. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/eek.gif



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Doug
NER.org (http://ner.org) webmaster
the16v.com (http://the16v.com) Photography
briansgarage.com (http://www.briansgarage.com)

[irondragon]

Two items.
I was the one who suggested turning off the transponder. It wasn't suggested as a source of extra work for the T&S people. Either don't do it, or tell T&S ahead of time not to manual score your numbers.Bad idea I guess.
As an alternative, Andy why not just do your tire research at an NHIS open track session?

Second item: snow at NHIS. It's leaving fast but there is lot of it. However, snowplow trucks at the entrance road do not mean that the track will get plowed. I've never known it to happen. Sweepers yes, plows that might gouge the track no. Problem is that snow drifts onto the south oval, which is shaded from the sun by stands and billboards.Takes forever to leave. Best to wish for lots of warm breezes.
Bill Miskoe

[RKramden]

Originally posted by dave parker:
... By "turning off" your transponder you are requiring Timing & Scoring to increase their workload signifigantly because one person will be tasked with timing you manually with a stopwatch.

AT NHIS, it is a bit more work for T&S, but not that much. The folks (two of them) running the AMB systems (a dual system, so there is always a hot backup) will notice your missing transponder, and start "hitting the button" each time you pass in any case. On the fly, they go back and fudge the pass where you were missing. You still get lap times. It is a bit more work, but they are often doing it for two or three cars in some of the race groups (which seem to run Lucas electrics) already.

But, the point is moot, as the transponder system is the TIMING system (GCR 8.1.4), not the SCORING system (GCR 8.1.5), which is still done and checked by a team of people who write down your car number every time you go past the T&S building. In three part harmony. With feeling.(1) This is used to produce a lap chart that is the official SCORING of the race, and the AMB system is checked against this. If they agree (and most often they do), then the AMB system is used to print the results. If they don't agree then it is either:

A "passing" was missed for some reason.
or
There was a pass between T&S and Start on the last lap.

In either case, the AMB system results are "edited" to make the correction.

Way more that you wanted to know, but that is what happens at NHIS. Lime Rock is the same, except you don't have the problem of about 1/6th of a mile from T&S to the end of the race.


(1) Two lines from "Alice's Resturant." (The song, not the movie.) The car numbers are written in triplicate, and each list is checked against the other two. The GCR requires this for national races and recomends it for regionals.

[JohnRW]

Wow...first post I've seen on IT.com with footnotes. Officer Obie would be proud.

[RKramden]

Originally posted by JohnRW:
Wow...first post I've seen on IT.com with footnotes. Officer Obie would be proud.


I'd post 27 8x10 color glossy photos, with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back explaining what each one was, but a http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif you would not be able to read the back, b http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif some of you are just like the judge.

[dave parker]

Guys,
My comments were directed at those running in the DC region MARRS series. The MARRS series has five out of the nine run groups with 50 plus cars so manual scoring becomes a big deal.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.....
cheers
dave parker
wdcr ITC#97

[dpc]

Andy, I have been gone for a week, or I would have posted earlier. Go for the GOLD, Race hard and don't look back. dave

[Andy Bettencourt]

Here is the issue:

I want to do some development in IT on R-tires. I now have a 1.8 Miata in SM that is an ITS car. Since the SM's (1.6 and 1.8) are 'equalized' by resrictors, the 1.6's and 1.8's are the same speed. I thought about running the 1.8 car in ITA for no points - mostly to stay the heck outta the ITS cars way as this car would be way off the pace.

Having thought it through, the Miata's run hard with ITB so thee will be a rcae in there somewhere...

ITS it is! Thanks to all.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)