emissions dilemma

[gran racing]

I received the CT emissions notification for my prelude, and am at a bit of a loss as what to do. If I had a full trailer it would not be a problem but because I use a tow dolly, I am required to have the car registered. A very long story made short, I found out that the tow dolly does not need to be registered because it become a part of the car.

I spoke with the DMV and emissions department about potential options, but they were unable to figure anything out. (They were actually helpful when I called this time. Wow!) The parade plate, composite registration, off-road registration will not work. I can not afford a trailer, so that is not an option. The exhaust would be a real pain in the butt to put the cat back on then take off after with the way my exhaust is set-up. I really, really don’t want to go down that path. I did confirm that even if passes emissions, it still needs the cat.

I did find out that I can claim the car non-working which would buy me five months to figure something out. But then what? If I had property in another state that does not require emissions, I’d go that route. Right now I’m at a loss. Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks,

Dave
[email protected]


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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[JohnRW]

Register it in another state. Most just require a mailing address. No state that I know of requires 'property ownership'. Just don't choose a state with a 'personal property tax'.



[This message has been edited by JohnRW (edited February 10, 2005).]

[Greg Amy]

Dave, you have an unalterable progression of facts:

- If you must use a tow dolly, the car must be registered.
- If the car must be registered, it must pass emissions.
- If it must pass emissions, it must have a catalytic converter.
- If it must have a catalytic converter, ya gotta install it.
-Therefore, if you must use a tow dolly, you gotta install the cat.

With respect to Das EnduroMeister, I think registering the car out of state is impractical and, most importantly, illegal. All states have laws that govern this and the fines if you get caught are pretty severe. The only viable way to do this would be to register the car to someone you know in another state, that way you can legitimately claim it's not yours.

One thing that you've glossed over is the "I can't afford a trailer" issue. You've been tossing this idea around for a couple of years now, which means you've had your car registered during that time. And, during that time, you've paid registration fees, insurance premiums, and property tax on a car that you really don't need to have registered. When you add up all these costs, you have spent MORE than the price of a good used steel trailer. Add it all up.

I strongly encourage you to rethink your paradigm and get off the stick and buy a trailer. You cannot afford NOT to. - GA

[RKramden]

You said that the dolly becomes part of the car. How about if you register the dolly and the can becomes part of the trailer?

Or, since you never drive it on the street, can you register it as a trailer?

If the motor isn't in it some day, does that make it legal as a trailer?

[gran racing]

Actually, I save money by having it registered. The insurance company gives us a bigger discount on our other cars (we only have theft insurance since it isn't driven on the street) taxes were under $60 this year. It surprised me a bit too!!! If the car had comp. things would probably turn to the other side.

But I did give serious thought to the trailer purchase again this year. Instead I'm getting a LSD and a few other goodies. And at that time I didn't have the emissions issue, so I selectively forgot about it.

Kramden, that was my initial thought last year. The stuff I went through was just crazy. Eventually I went to court to fight a ticket I received for not having a license plate (although I showed the officer proof from the DMV police officer that it should not have a registration). I kept getting conflicting information and the judge dismissed the case but was not sure himself. Maybe I'll try that route again.

I'm sure I'll figure something out; just hoping someone had some clever ideas.

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[JeffYoung]

We just sold a tow dolly -- and not a great one -- for $625 on ebay, no problem at all.

Take that money from selling your dolly and MAYBE $400 more and get a decent used trailer.

That's what I would do.

[JOESELLSVW]

I think installing a cat wouldn't be all that dificult. If you designed the exhaust to allow the cat to be removed and reinstalled it shouldn't be too bad. I worked in a shop where we did a lot of Porsche work for PCA Club Racing. At one time we went through a phase where we were using "cat tips" basically it was a small cat fabricated into an exhaust tip used specifically to get a car like yours to pass emissions so it couls remain registered, even though it never saw street time. This worked ok with 911's because the exhaust was short enough that the cat could still heat up enough to be effective. Does your exhaust exit before the rear wheels? Maybe this'd work for you... Just a thought...

[Greg Amy]

Property Taxes: $60/yr
Marginal Ins Costs: $250/yr (est)
Registration costs: $75/yr (est)
Resell tow dolly on eBay: $600+ (est)

Total: $385/yr + $600 = $985 you're spending this year for a tow dolly, plus $385 (and growing) each subsequent year, ad infinitum.

Cost of a decent used trailer: $1000.

Not having to deal with The State, your insurance company, and your local tax assesor: priceless.

[RKramden]

Originally posted by GregAmy:
Not having to deal with The State, your insurance company, and your local tax assesor: priceless.

Except you have to
Pay taxes on the trailer,
Insure the trailer,
Register the trailer.

So, you have to deal with the tax people, the DMV, the insurance company.....

I used to live in "The State", and it makes the B.S. in Mass. look downright pleasent.

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\"> Except you have to...</font>

Yep, that's true, sorry for the oversight. However, for reference, registration for my (2003) trailer is $18/yr (no emissions tesitng requried http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif), taxes were $15 this year (Middletown), and no insurance is required (it's covered as part of your tow vehicle). - GA

[RKramden]

Originally posted by GregAmy:
Yep, that's true, sorry for the oversight. However, for reference, registration for my (2003) trailer is $18/yr (no emissions tesitng requried http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif), taxes were $15 this year (Middletown), and no insurance is required (it's covered as part of your tow vehicle). - GA

While I do live in Mass., my trailer is $85 per year to register (based on gross weight), about $150 to insure (not covered as part of the tow vehicle, since gross weight is over 2000 pounds) and I forget what taxes are, but it's not too much.

I guess it depends on how much trailer you want/need.

[itracer]

Dave-

Email me at itracer(at )comcast . net

I may have a real bargain on an old trailer. It could solve all your problems.

Jason

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Jason
ITB 17 (NER SCCA)
VW Scirocco

[Diane]

As a CT resident who has lived in a few towns and read up on rules in other towns, there is one thing you haven't mentioned: what is your towns ruling on unregistered vehicles? Not the "my neighbors don't care" but the official ruling.

My town allows one outside if it falls into one of 3 categories. I can have 100 if they are inside. Windsor doesn't allow any, even if they are under lock and key. If you have a neighbor complain, you're done. Stupid but true. I don't know your town as I've never researched living there (I also research pet laws as that's in interesting subject).

Anyway, we have a race exhaust and a street exhaust for the race cars. Swaps over pretty easy, even I can handle it. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

My race car went through during one of those 10 degree days the end of January. Battery was dead. So glad I had gotten new gloves from the shop the day before! Worst problem is getting someone short enough to fit in the car. Still not sure why they had the hood up, it's an 88 so it's only the roller/tailpipe test but......

My .02

Diane



[This message has been edited by Diane (edited February 11, 2005).]

[joeg]

Go and get a trailer!

(Everyone is telling you that)

[gran racing]

Everyone but my wife and visa card. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif

Financially right now it is a bit tough to purchase a trailer. I know, it is tough not to as well. My wife is trying to start up a business (while still working her full time job). I just got the tranny in today (LSD and new clutch). Since I'll be in ITB, Hoosiers will be another thing I "need". I was hoping to do that in time for the SCDA HPDE in March so I can try the car out with the stuff I've done before the first race. (I instruct so there is not event fee)

Jason - thanks! Can't hurt to hear about the trailer deal.

I am very fortunate to have great neighbors!!! Yes, I have spoken with them to see if they mind the car being parked on the side of the house. Their response was no; buy the way, do you want a car that needs some work for free and you could fix up then sell? I already knew "my" answer - so it was my wife's NOOOOOOO!



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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[gran racing]

Diane - good idea about the exhaust swap. I wish I had thought about some of this before I cut up the parts car.

The car is almost done at the bodyshop...I'll be contacting you soon for vinyl. (Have to plug her viny business - they really do a geat job and caring about us fellow racers shows in the work they do.)

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[Diane]

Originally posted by gran racing:
Diane - good idea about the exhaust swap. I wish I had thought about some of this before I cut up the parts car.

The car is almost done at the bodyshop...I'll be contacting you soon for vinyl. (Have to plug her viny business - they really do a geat job and caring about us fellow racers shows in the work they do.)




Check your bodyshop or the junkyards to see if they have any kicking around. I like it as I'm then legal to drive on the street any time I want, works out great.

Thanks for the plug! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif Just let me know when you get everything finalized, I still have your specs from the old order.

Diane

<fixed typo>

[This message has been edited by Diane (edited February 12, 2005).]

[JLawton]

Dave,
Where in CT do you live?



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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi

[gran racing]

Jeff - I live in Newington.

(Ooops - I just noticed that I misposted my e-mail in the first post. Should be [email protected])



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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[Jeremy Billiel]

I just bought a used car trailer and you will be VERY hard pressed to find a decent one for anything less than $1800. Unfortunatly, the price of steel has gone through the roof and as a result trailers are going up big time. I just got a steel on a 18' steel solid deck trailer with a winch for $2500. Just something to think about...

[dyoungre]

Dave,
I just sold my tow dolly because I didn't want to deal with having to register it in NJ. Haven't done the research, but if registering the tow dolly in NJ means that what is on it does NOT have to be registered in other states, I'd be willing to do so for you ... something to think about, but you should check with NJ and CT laws to see how going across state lines changes requirements...

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Dave Youngren
NER ITA RX7 #61

[seamus88]

Dave
I feel for you.I still have not bought a trailer .I am lucky enough to borrow one(major pain in the a$$).My problem is more than just funds(which is real). But I live in a row home and have no way and cant afford to park one.

[lateapex911]

Ok,here's the deal. You are lucky...you're married. Read that again!

Register the car in her name in Maine. NEVER let her drive it or be with it when towing.

Maine needs $. They don't care 'bout no 'missions stuff.

You don't even need a Maine address, or even have to vacation there. BUT...if the thing is registered in YOUR name, and a cop pulls you over and looks at YOUR lic, which says "CT", you are screwed. Bonus points if your wife has the first name of "Fran" or similar, and thought "Gran" wasn't the way to go, and kept her own surname... http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[gran racing]

Jake, just how many times was I supposed to read that? http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif Just playing...she's busy doing some yoga thing so back to the computer.

The only issue with that is she actually wants to go with me to some of the races, esp. ones a bit further away. Guess it's a good time to catch-up on her reading? With some of the longer tows such as Summit and Atlanta (who knows??), she'll be doing some of the driving. But that gave me some ideas in the worst case scenerio even if just a temp fix after the 5 month non-working CT thing expires.

Dave, I really, really appreciate the offer but won't risk getting you in trouble. It is one thing to shoot myself in the foot, but to point a loaded gun at someone else's and hope it doesn't go off would be wrong. But seriously, thanks!!

When I looked at some of the cheap used trailers, I found that after getting it in decent shape (brakes working properly, lights, tires, ect.) it often got a bit pricey. Trailers just don't seem to depreciate much.

Seamus - have you looked into various places to store it? Meaning...any local business such as auto parts store, car dealership, autobody shop, ect. Or if in a more rural area, landscaping businesses at their "home base", farms, ect. Call it a form of sponsorship or if you don't feel like doing it that way, pay them a bit for their space. Depending on where you work (this could be very convenient), maybe you could store it somewhere hidden there. I was a bit surprised to find out that there is a trailer stored behind one of our buildings for exactly that reason. (And it is a conservative company in the banking industry) Just a thought.

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[dickita15]

I was just told about a good used trailer in Ct that is available for $1000. owner upgraded to alum.
dick patullo

[email protected]

[badal]

So how much is a junkyard exhaust?
Buy one and do Diane's deal.

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"Bad" Al Bell
ITC #3 Datsun 510
DC Region MARRS Series

[itracer]

Originally posted by gran racing:
Jason - thanks! Can't hurt to hear about the trailer deal.


Dave-- You have mail http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif


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Jason
ITB 17 (NER SCCA)
VW Scirocco

[JohnRW]

Originally posted by GregAmy:
With respect to Das EnduroMeister, I think registering the car out of state is impractical and, most importantly, illegal.

Illegal ? I'd rather think of it as a 'bureaucratic anomaly'. I used to keep a street car registered in Louisiana, and a trailer registerin Maine. I think the 'symbiotic confluence' of these two was someplace near at White Castle near Columbus, Ohio. Mmmmm.....'sliders'....Mmmmmm.

I never 'did time' in the 'big house' for registration shenanigans. Civil gov't jacks us around all the time, I'm just doing my part jacking them around right back.

Did you know that, by mailing a $20 bill to the right person in Louisiana, you could get an inspection sticker, mailed right back ? You just have to know the right kind of people.

[Diane]

Originally posted by JohnRW:
Illegal ? I'd rather think of it as a 'bureaucratic anomaly'. I used to keep a street car registered in Louisiana, and a trailer registerin Maine. I think the 'symbiotic confluence' of these two was someplace near at White Castle near Columbus, Ohio. Mmmmm.....'sliders'....Mmmmmm.

I never 'did time' in the 'big house' for registration shenanigans. Civil gov't jacks us around all the time, I'm just doing my part jacking them around right back.

Did you know that, by mailing a $20 bill to the right person in Louisiana, you could get an inspection sticker, mailed right back ? You just have to know the right kind of people.


Last I knew it *was* illegal in CT to have a car registered in another state unless you also had a residence in that state. Another case where your neighbors can turn you in and you're done. And while todays neighbors may be fine, the next one may not like the race car parked in the back or side yard.

http://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=810&Q...r=|27892|#27893 (http://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=810&Q=245080&dmvPNavCtr=|27892|#27893)

Diane

[dyoungre]

It was my understanding that it was also illegal to buy a used catalyst from a junkyard - anybody know if that is true? Do I just not know the right people? I'd love to get a modern, high flow catalyst onto my '83 RX7 and still meet (well, pass) state emissions requirements.



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Dave Youngren
NER ITA RX7 #61

[Dano77]

David, it is illeagle(?) to purchase a cat from the junk yard,but not to buy an emblem for 100.00 CASH (no reciept) You just have to ask the correct questions. good luck,Dan

[Diane]

Interesting! You can surely purchase a junked car and swap the system over though. I get spoiled as Tim builds them for me. I think he recently bought a free-flow cat for well under $100 though.

Diane

[Diane]

sheesh, obviously posting in my sleep!

[This message has been edited by Diane (edited March 05, 2005).]