NAARC/MARRS Races at the Glen/Pocono

[benspeed]

Hello,

I'd like to guage some interest in having some additional NAARC/MARRS races at Watkins Glen and Pocono. Many racers from the more southern parts of the NE region would like the option of running some races on their home tracks for points. This last year only 2 races were held outstide of LRP and NH. There are 6 of the 12 NAARC races are at one track NHIS, which seems a little lopsided-especially considering nearly every single class is being won by a NE region driver.

The idea is that if we have more races for points at more tracks - the series will more competitive and less lopsided to the NHIS home track drivers. Also, if we can hold a joint MARRS/NAARC race, particularly at Pocono, we should have some large turnout with some new competition.

The NE DIV mini con is coming up and I believe the schedule is decided at that event. (If not - then where/how?)

I suggest that the series can be more competitive by adding two events while still selecting the best of 8 races for points.

Pros? Cons? Chime in!

Cheers,


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BenSpeed
#33 ITS RX7
BigSpeed Racing
[email protected]
NNJR

[jcmotorsports]

awesome idea ben. more tracks may give more people a shot at the points. pocono, watkins glen, and even beaverun are relatively close for the guys south of new england.
john costello

[dave parker]

Ben
Good idea. As a serious MARRS competitor i would enjoy some more out of region races.
But i would not however go to Pocono. Too many poor expirences there. Beaverun, Watkins would be excellent.
Make sure that you get your regions Board of Directors involved. It will get discussed here in Washington DC region.
dave parker
wdcr ITC #97

[lateapex911]

yea... I know you'll all throw tomatoes at me, but Pocono...it sucks!

I am a believer that each track has it's "signature character". At NHIS its the NASCAR 1 & 2...major importance to getting a pass done there is gettign thru the banking fast. The Glen is "the classic" road race track. Up, down, left right. Lime Rock it a weird highly technical "roadrace bull ring". Cut out the downhill at Lime Rock, ot the 1 & 2 combination at NHIS, and the character of the place is lost.

Pocono has little character to start with, and the ever changing configuration, along with the fact that you feel as though you are on the moon when you're there have caused me to lose interest.

I would love to go to Beaver and it would be nice to have some friends come along....

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[22timber]

I don't really like Pocono, but I'd race there for a MARRS/NAARC event.

[moto62]

I like your idea Ben. Running for NARRC/NERRC points pretty much kept me at NHIS and LRP but I got tired of the same scene weekend after weekend. I purposely skipped the last few races at NHIS because I was just tired of it. Never mind the points. I went to the Glen instead, a few weeks ago and had a blast and if the weather forecast improves for this coming weekend, I'll be at the Glen again. Pocono??? Although it has no character, a trip or two a year wouldn't be bad. I think if NHIS, LRP, Pocono, The Glen, and maybe even the Beaver were included in the NARRC/NERRC series it would make for an interesting series. It may be a towing disadvantage for the folks from south to run up north but it will be the same for the folks up north to go south.(I live smack dab in the middle of most of all the northeast tracks so I would not be affected http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif.)
What are the chances of something like this actually happening?
Ray

[0100]

Yes most definitly need to add more tracks to the NARRC.

I vote Watkins and Beverun.

[DaveITB1]

I think its a great idea too.
Love the Glen,
Would like Pocono better if we little SCCA racers were made to feel a bit more welcome there,
and have never been to BeaverRun, but would be urged to make the trip for more points, more races, and different competition.

dave

[Dave Zaslow]

Marrs has run the Glen and Pocono in the past. Got the body damage to prove it. It would be great to have these reinstated as an interdivisional race. Go for it.

Dave Z

[ITSRX7]

Every year there is a Double Regional at Pocono that is part of the NARRC series. Very few show up from NER.

People are asking for it, they have it, but nobody goes - what gives?

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[mgyip]

The concept is quite good but my concern is that a minority of overly vocal MARRS drivers don't want to travel out of region (even 1-2 hours is too far for some of these folks). I like the idea of racing out of region and would welcome the opportunity to go somewhere new. However Pocono has a reputation for rain and fog - after the 2004 season, I think I've had enough rain racing to last a lifetime.

The majority of the ITA drivers prefer The Glen over Pocono although a few long-term ITAers have been lobbying quite hard to run Pocono (probably b/c it's a shorter tow).

As Dave Parker has mentioned, get your BOD involved and they'll contact the DC Region BOD. How does that go? Have your people call our people and we'll talk.

Thanks for the thought!!

Haz-Matt

[benspeed]

Thanks all for the thoughtful replies. I'm getting involved in the NNJR Board as treasurer and the veterans said the same - get the other boards involved to effect the change. Being a rookie to the management side, I'm not sure who to contact. I'll check out the region sites, but if anybody would like to contact me on this or point me to the right people, that would be very appriciated. [email protected]

For folks who missed the Pocono race this year, it was very different. The layout has now been finalized (I believe) going clockwise with the chicane before NASCAR 1 - not the lame barriers, but an actual 2nd gear corner that makes for some good passing and a critical turn as it leads onto the straightaway. We now know what to run for track record and what to expect when we get there. The track staff was also very warm and friendly-unlike other events. That said - most folks seem to want another NAARC race at the Glen. And Beaver. I'd like to have a NAARC race at all three. And cross division will turn out a bunch of cars.

I'm very intersted in why we might meet with objections to this proposed idea - can anybody give me some cons on this so I know how this might be debated by our senior leadership? Seems to me that if enough folks agree it's a good idea-we ought to do it.

Thanks again,

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BenSpeed
#33 ITS RX7
BigSpeed Racing
[email protected]
NNJR

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by benspeed:
For folks who missed the Pocono race this year, it was very different. The layout has now been finalized (I believe) going clockwise with the chicane before NASCAR 1 - not the lame barriers, but an actual 2nd gear corner that makes for some good passing and a critical turn as it leads onto the straightaway. We now know what to run for track record and what to expect when we get there. The track staff was also very warm and friendly-unlike other events. That said - most folks seem to want another NAARC race at the Glen. And Beaver. I'd like to have a NAARC race at all three. And cross division will turn out a bunch of cars.




The course at pocono you described above is not that great. Granted it is far superior to the short course at the glen which is completly boring but it is still a ton of straightaway and you use a very poorly designed chicane that was never designed to be a chicane. One of the best courses I have run on is the north and south chicane at Pocono. Go back to this config. and you'll have people continue to come out.

As far as using Beaverrun, Pocono, nelson and the glen I am all for it! we should count an event almost every weekend if we can. Of course we can't count to many more in overall points because then it would become far to expensive. However have an event almost every weekend and then you let more drivers be compeditive in the points and you give them more choices of events to attend. I think we still need to have drops to keep the costs down but it would certainly be better with more chances to do well for more drivers. And the Money pool at the end will be that much bigger if we run an event every weekend!

We also need to change the NARRC Runnoffs to a larger track. LRP just isn't big enough anymore and it has far to many restrictions on time. Move it to a larger track so we can have bigger fields and good racing.

Oh-Ya one more thing.... move the awards banquet to another weekend besides the weekend of the ARRC.

Stephen
NORTH ATLANTIC road racing series!

[CSPTK]

The best race I've been to [edit: this year]was a NYSRRC/MARRS dual event at the Glen.

It was a points event for both series and the turnout was awesome. Bringing the WDC guys up from the south was a great experience...

A NARRC/NYSRRC/MARRS trifecta at the Glen would be a great draw I think.

Tom Kearney
SSM #85
Finger Lakes Region

[This message has been edited by CSPTK (edited October 14, 2004).]

[JohnRW]

Ben -

Sometimes, all it takes is somebody to ask the question "Can we come race with you ?". Let your RE, and your Regional Competition Chair/Board, and any series administrator know that there is interest in taking your series "on the road". The scheduling meeting for 2005 happens NEXT MONTH, so it's time to speak.

Possible problems ?

Track/paddock size, Group scheduling, for one. Imagine the chaos if the all the NARRC guys showed up at a MARRS weekend, and visa-versa.

Some Regions balk at unusually high 'per-car fees' required by the visiting Series. Some get $5 a car, some ask $25 or more a car. Talk to your Series administrators about this, as it may be why you haven't been 'invited' to race elsewhere.

[mgyip]

Originally posted by JohnRW:
Track/paddock size, Group scheduling, for one. Imagine the chaos if the all the NARRC guys showed up at a MARRS weekend, and visa-versa.

One of the biggest issues that MARRS encounters is the total number of participants (not all of whom travel to out-of-region races). Many smaller regions can be overwhelmed by the number of competitors when adding the MARRS series that routinely attracts 250 participants per weekend.

[mlytle]

matt is right, bringing in a marrs crowd can create some size issues sometimes. we had about 400 cars at the marrs labor day double at summit and i think the annual sarrc/marrs event at vir draws 350+. the glenn was far enough away from dc to cut down a little on the "marrs pack". the glenn is a large track though and can handle the larger fields. not many tracks can do 50+ cars per session.

marshall

[dickita15]

john is right about the per car points fund, for narrc it is $6 per car. if for instance dc hosted a narrc event they would have to pay into the points fund for every entry. if they already draw 300 cars that is $1800 twice that for a double. now they would only have to draw 15 or 20 extra cars to break even.

at nysrrc's request NER made our august nhis event a nysrrc points race but they only charge $3 per car.
dick

[moto62]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance:
Oh-Ya one more thing.... move the awards banquet to another weekend besides the weekend of the ARRC.

Holy crap! Say it aint so http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/eek.gif
http://www.users.fast.net/~nescca/NARRCbanquet.pdf
Darn! I guess a few of us will be missing the NARRC banquet this year. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif
Ray

[benspeed]

Originally posted by JohnRW:
Ben -

The scheduling meeting for 2005 happens NEXT MONTH, so it's time to speak.

.

JohnRW,

Who do I contact to find out when this meeting will be held and to get this subject on the agenda?

Thanks,

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BenSpeed
#33 ITS RX7
BigSpeed Racing
[email protected]
NNJR

[dickita15]

the narrc meetings are held twice a year on the saturday of the spring and fall divisional meetings. the next one is Nov 20th. the narrc commitee is made up of the RE's and Competition directors of the 4 narrc meetings. nnjr, nyr, ner and mo hud.
i know the nysrrc meetings are usually the same time. i know nothing about the marrs meetings as that is one region.
dick patullo

[22timber]

I know Bill Hutchens was just elected to the Washington DC region board of directors. His email is [email protected].

Mark Lapos

[tdw6974]

Originally posted by dickita15:
[B] narrc meetings
Dick is there a web site for NAARC Info? Thanks TW

[itracer]

[/QUOTE][/b]
Dick is there a web site for NAARC Info? Thanks TW[/b][/QUOTE]

http://www.scca-nnjr.org/series/narrc.html#Head

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Jason
ITB 17 (NER SCCA)
VW Scirocco

[This message has been edited by itracer (edited January 20, 2005).]

[Andy Bettencourt]

The net/net is that there is a NARRC Double at Pocono May 14-15 and a NERRC single at WGI July 23-24.

edit - Thanks Terry!

Andy

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM 1.6
Spec Miata 1.8
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[This message has been edited by Andy Bettencourt (edited January 21, 2005).]

[Terry Hanushek]

Andy


<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">The net/net is that there is a NARRC Double at Pocono July 9-10 and a NERRC single at WGI July 23-24.</font>

The NNJR NARRC Double Regional at Pocono is scheduled for 14-15 May.

Terry


[This message has been edited by Terry Hanushek (edited January 20, 2005).]

[JOESELLSVW]

This wouldn't be a terrible idea, but I too must say that the Pocono track is lame. I've done plenty of laps there with Porsche Club, BMW club etc. I'll bet that anyone who really likes Pocono has never driven Summit. I can say this with Pocono being the CLOSEST tack to me. Pocono is just plain boring to drive compared to Summit. Basically I'm saying that I'd rather drive 3 hours to SP than about an hour and fifteen minutes to get to Pocono. Seriously, Nelson is more fun.. no lie! As soon as Thunderbolt Raceway in Millville NJ opens I'll never even think about Pocono and the nasty staff, tiny paddock, and total lack of atmosphere again. Seriously, the MARRS series is such a good time to attend I really couldn't see it being as fun if it were at Pocono. MARRS at TR? It'll happen, guaranteed!

[benspeed]

I was pleased to see that NERRC points will be awarded at the Glenn this year - still not sure why NAARC points didn't get included. We'll all need to lobby for that next year before the mini-con which I think is when the schedule is finialized.

Thunder Raceway and a new roadcourse at Englishtown will make things real interesting in the next couple of years for determining which tracks host what series points.

Anybody see the development for the Englishtown track? I thought it was going to be a kart track, but the pavement is 40 ft wide and should be good for road racing.

Check out the link:
http://www.etownraceway.com/

Cheers,

[SamITC85]

I don't think the SCCA will ever approve w2w racing at Englishtown. Look at the pictures of turn 8 you can see how close it comes to turn 10. They had a fatality these year at Thunderhill when a car crossed over from one portion of a track to another. I can maybe see Solo 1 or auto cross but no racing. But maybe they will put some barriers up, who knows.

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Sam Rolfe
TBR Motorsports
#85 ITC VW Rabbit being converted to LPHP
#85 GP Scirocco

[Matt Rowe]

Originally posted by SamITC85:
I can maybe see Solo 1 or auto cross but no racing. But maybe they will put some barriers up, who knows.



Road racing seems unlikely with how closely the course doubles back on itself. In fact when the first course map came out a couple of years back some of the stewards in the local Solo I group took a look. Although we would wait until the course is finalized, our preliminary opinion was the track would not be good for a Solo I track because of the lack of seperation between sections of the course. To break even Solo I's need to run multiple cars on course and although we maintain gaps between cars during timed runs those gaps vary depending on the speed differential between cars not to mention someone having a good or bad lap. There are several places where a car can make an error and affect another portion of the course.

The final configuration with barriers and berms might improve the situation but I have my reservations.

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~Matt Rowe
ITA Shelby Charger
MARRS #96