How to make the NARRC more prestigious? [Archive] - Improved Touring Racing Forums

R RACER

11-10-2004, 09:03 PM

Mandatory teardown of top three, and sponsors of the event, I'll be the first one, Parts or services to any Honda or Acura that finish in the top three in any class from my company.$500.00 for 1st,$300 for 2nd, $150.00 3rd.Anyone else willing to kick in? Lets start now and we can probably make it work by next year, there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to attract other drivers from other regions. I just towed 16 hours last weekend to run the big event, and there were lots of outsiders there too. Keep the thread alive Dave ,great question I hope we can build something up.

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Anthony Serra ITA 99

RSTPerformance

11-10-2004, 10:58 PM

I have been involved with racing since the mid 60's and the NARRC has always been held in high regard. Perhaps we should remind people how important it has been over the years. A way to do this might be when you register your number or enter your first event or post it on the website a list of the top 3 in each class of each year it has been run. It would be a long list but as I
recall it has some BIG names on it. It might
inspire others to want to be on that list with them.
Tom Gray
crew chief RST Performance

Greg Amy

11-10-2004, 11:06 PM

Anthony, you are THE MAN!

Hey, can we take a small cut of that prize money and chip in for unique login accounts for the RSTPerformance team...?

lateapex911

11-10-2004, 11:43 PM

It costs money to have an account here????

Uh oh...i better check all my statements!

(Really guys...you all have a lot to offer, but it gets confusing when all three of you are the same name)

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

lateapex911

11-10-2004, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by R RACER:
Mandatory teardown of top three, Keep the thread alive Dave ,great question I hope we can build something up.

Cool deal, Anthony...

Sounds like you enjoyed your Atlanta tech shed experience!

(BTW, thanks for showing me what a read Honda 40 over piston, complete with part numbers looks like! wink..wink!)

I DO like the idea of a teardown, but that's 12 cars minimum for IT alone...any ideas on how to staff such an event? Did you see alll the tech folks in Atlanta? Maybe we could propose a mandatory teardown of less magnitude?

I wonder if a teardown will attract more drivers...or dissuade more drivers? Even if you are 100% legal, it's a lot of work to put it all back together...

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

RSTPerformance

11-11-2004, 02:10 AM

First thing to do is to decide where to run the event. Limerock is obviously not going to work. As it was this year we had to many cars and it didn't work. TO get more people you first need to be able to handle more people. Wtkins glen or beaverrun might be good but NHIS and LR are out. Way to small to run a good championship event.

Stephen

gran racing

11-11-2004, 09:40 AM

Very cool Anthony! And of course congrats on your win at the ARRC.

What is the max. amount of cars that Atlanta allows on the track? With a waiver, how many have we done at LRP? Anyone know what the Glen is?

Bev Run - na. I'll admit I'm being a bit selfish here and am looking for a showcase event where NER guys/gals don't have to do a 12 hr plus tow.

The NARRC - make it a restricted regional. We don't need to open it up to national classes. And that would solve the numbers issue. The event could have the flexibility of each class running out on the track by themselves if need be. I do think LRP could be a very good place to hold the event. Unlike the Glen, it is a great spectator track as well.

Some type of tear down makes sense. Not only would it add credibility to the event and winners of it, but it would also force the regions to become adapt in tear downs. Like Jake said, one downside of tear downs is it may dissuade people from the event because it isn't the last race of the year for the top drivers. For people like me, having the entire winter to figure out what to do with all of the parts that were torn down isn't too imtimidating (I always seem to have a few extra bolts after working on my car http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif )

Adding a NARRC section on this forum would be a good idea. I assume there is not a NARRC site similar to the ARRC one?

Tom, I need some reminding of how the NARRC is held in high regard... I've attended the NARRC and other SCCA LRP races for several years as a spectator and just completed my 2nd racing season. From both perspectives, the primary difference I've seen between the NARRC and a typical race weekend is the amount of cub scouts at the NARRC. (Great tradition by the way.) Yes, I've also seen it matter for NER points but that is too regionalized for it to be a high profile race. I've also spoken with several other racers about the NARRC and what it means. The answer I get is that it's just another race weekend. Maybe it is just people like me that are relatively new to sport?

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[This message has been edited by gran racing (edited November 11, 2004).]

ITSRX7

11-11-2004, 10:53 AM

Flatout will be follwoing Anthony's lead on this. Cash or services from us TBD. We will work out the plan this winter.

The idea is great.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

7racing

11-11-2004, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by gran racing:

What is the max. amount of cars that Atlanta allows on the track? With a waiver, how many have we done at LRP? Anyone know what the Glen is?

SCCA rules state 25 cars per mile. With a "waiver" I think the max cars on course at LRP is 42. Road Atlanta is how many miles long? Multiply that number by 25, and you get the idea of how many cars can be put on course. I ran an SCCA Glen Enduro a few years ago with 75 cars on track (3.37 miles). Big difference.

Bev Run - na. I'll admit I'm being a bit selfish here and am looking for a showcase event where NER guys/gals don't have to do a 12 hr plus tow.

Yeah, I agree, I think the NARRC Runoffs should be at a NARRC track. That leaves NHIS, LRP or Pocono. Pocono would be big enough to have a large amount of cars, but scheduling there might be tough in late September/early October. Besides, are you willing to give up the regional at LRP to do this? Or are you looking to add another event?

The NARRC - make it a restricted regional. We don't need to open it up to national classes. And that would solve the numbers issue. The event could have the flexibility of each class running out on the track by themselves if need be.

Every National class is also a Regional class that runs for NARRC points. How do you eliminate the regional only Production drivers from the NARRC Run-offs? I don't see a feasible way to do that, unless you make another ARRC out the NARRC runoffs (which probably won't be popular).

Some type of tear down makes sense.

Not sure if I am for or against this idea. The ARRC is suppose to be a country wide race for the championship. The NARRC is the series ending championship for a local series. Though I would like to see teardowns, not sure it is feasible or warranted in this situation.

Adding a NARRC section on this forum would be a good idea. I assume there is not a NARRC site similar to the ARRC one?

I thought the Northeast division section was pretty much the NARRC part of this site. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

Anyway, I would like to see more prestige to the NARRC Runoffs as well. This is just my $.02 thrown into the mix.

Anthony, if I hit a Acura/Honda, can I get the prize money?

Jeremy

RSTPerformance

11-11-2004, 11:11 AM

The NARRC Runoffs has always been the "championship race" for the so called or referred to North Atlantic Region. Back in the day 80's early 90's it was more of a challenge or as much of a prestige to win the NARRC Runoffs as it was to win the NARRC championship (points). The prestige came from what the drivers made it to be. Even today it is still the biggest race in the northeast so I don't think we can say it isn't a championship. I think that the local regions do the best they can to make this event a "prestigious" one. I think that it is the drivers who need to spread the word more by saying this is "the race" of the northeast. I am always telling people from long distances to attend the race, as it is the biggest one.

In the Northeast they have always "shied away" from contingencies or sponsorships possibly because of two things:

a) everyone wants it but know one will put it together, sorta like the I Card Timing system)

B) The region officials don't want it to be a crash fest where we need to stay up all night dealing with protests.

With that said we do have contingencies from such wonderful people as Hoosier, but they are the same contingencies as every other race.

What can be done to make this event better... Hummm I had the idea that the NARRC banquette be Saturday night (after the event) at one of the chalets at Lime Rock. Have the biggest worker party and a ceremony crowning race champions as well as points champions. Everyone could party till the sun came up and then start the drive home Sunday... Lime Rock races should actually appeal to "distant" racers as Sunday can be a travel day rather than a race day.

Raymond "I know the Northeast has just as much hospitality as the south all does http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif " Blethen

Tom Blaney

11-11-2004, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by R RACER:
Mandatory teardown of top three, and sponsors of the event, I'll be the first one, Parts or services to any Honda or Acura that finish in the top three in any class from my company.$500.00 for 1st,$300 for 2nd, $150.00 3rd.Anyone else willing to kick in? Lets start now and we can probably make it work by next year, there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to attract other drivers from other regions. I just towed 16 hours last weekend to run the big event, and there were lots of outsiders there too. Keep the thread alive Dave ,great question I hope we can build something up.

Ok I'll play this game, only my company SBMS Racing Inc. will focus it a little differently (since I am a purist, and I want to support the people I service). I will offer $501.00 in parts or services to the highest placing HONDA (that's right we don't want no stinking acura's) in ITA (that excludes mine).

Tom Blaney
SBMS Racing Inc.

gran racing

11-11-2004, 12:19 PM

What about ITB Hondas? http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

nlevine

11-11-2004, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by gran racing:
The NARRC - make it a restricted regional. We don't need to open it up to national classes. And that would solve the numbers issue. The event could have the flexibility of each class running out on the track by themselves if need be.

...or, while we're brainstorming here, you could make it "by invitation only" - only folks with a certain number of NARRC points accrued, or in the top xx% of their class are qualified to run the NARRC-offs. That would also solve the numbers thing. I know that this may be a very unpopular concept as some folks "need" the race to make license renewals, but if you don't want it to be thought of as "just another regional", make it something you have to earn. Also adds more incentive to play legal throughout the season if one of the penalties is loss of accrued points if found guilty after protest. I also thought I've heard of other regions doing this (the invitation thing), but that could just be exhaust fumes getting to me. Either that, or add a day (Thursday?) for a real qualifying session - some folks may not get to play in the "feature".

I also seem to remember that the entry form for the NARRC-offs used to have some language in it about the race not being intended for novice drivers, or something like that.

-noam
#18 ITA BMW Z3 (just trying to keep up with mid-pack at this point)

Scott Koschwitz

11-11-2004, 01:42 PM

I like Raymond's suggestion of the big bash afterwards for the drivers and workers. That suggestion goes perfectly with the idea that the NAARC Runoffs are pretigious races in themselves, and may decide the NAARC class champions. In addition, if I remember, the NAARC Runoffs are always the last regional at Lime Rock, so it's a nice way to cap off the season at Lime Rock. Having Sunday to recover and tow home makes it convenient for scheduling, and should entice more racers from farther away to attend.

I also like Noam's idea of it being an invitation-only event (though I'm probably shooting myself in the foot here). Perhaps the top 50% of the class could be invited. That would add to the prestige and address the issues of limited paddock and track space. This could also increase participation in the NAARC series throughout the year, as racers try to acquire enough points to make it to the NAARC Runoffs.

(Side note: any chance we could move some of the NAARC series races from NHIS to Lime Rock or Watkins Glen?)

The ingredients are there to make the NAARC Runoffs a huge date on the calendar, for the racers and the spectators:

1) Weather at Lime Rock is usually beautiful that time of year;
2) The camping out of the Cub/Boy Scouts adds a festival type of atmosphere;
3) Limiting entry to the cream of each class would increase the competition and add to the prestige;
4) A big bash afterwards is always fun;
5) Lime Rock supports the NAARC Runoffs by advertising on their web site and the radio, and giving away tickets; and
6) Any sponsorship prize money would also add to the prestige.

Here's to the next NAARC Runoffs (and hopefully running it, not watching from the hillside).

Scott Koschwitz (former future IT racer, now SSM)

Diane

11-11-2004, 02:02 PM

Until I got my W2W license in 2002, I thought you did have to qualify for the NARRC runoffs. Wasn't that the case "way back when"?

Diane

gran racing

11-11-2004, 07:29 PM

I personally don't like NARRC season points being a focus of this race. Or even proclaiming the NARRC season champion here. (They have an awards dinner for that already, don't they?) I think putting emphasis on the NARRC points would get away from the race being a bigger / non-regionalized race. I'd love to entice people from down south up to LRP. It would be nice to race against drivers both up North at our home track then again in the ARRC at their home track.

The invitation idea is interesting, but would be curious what other methods of determining who is invited there could be other then simply the regional points. (I personally don't follow the NARRC championship and would much rather race at the Glen, Summit, ect. then up at NHIS.) And again, I'd like to attract drivers from several of the other regions.

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[This message has been edited by gran racing (edited November 11, 2004).]

Scott Koschwitz

11-11-2004, 08:13 PM

Dave, if we de-emphasize the NAARC Runoffs as a possible championship-deciding race, how do we draw the drivers, especially those from down south? We'd have to make it something other than just another regional.

The only things I can think of now are: 1) tons of track time (which is difficult with 10 race groups on Lime Rock's schedule); 2) prize money; and 3) other prizes (tires, test day passes, free alignment and ccorner balance).

The last two would take some pretty heavy involvement with sponsors, which might be a tough sell in this economic climate.

I am definitely in favor of moving some of the NAARC races from NHIS.

lateapex911

11-11-2004, 08:33 PM

From a dollars and cents angle, whatever is done mustn't adversely affect the regions income. Limiting subscription below a "full house" won't be a popular concept.

While I like the "invitation only" idea, I just don't think it's practical.

In the past, the OMP series got the most attention from far away lands. I remember Mike VanSteenberg making the trip all the way from FL with the big rig. Why? Well, it was a big weekend, lots of NASCAR stuff going on, his brother Kip lived nearby and so on. I doubt he would have come without Kips urging, but thats just a guess.

Remember, the ARRCs bills itself as the IT (and other regional only classes) National Championship. Even still, who actually shows up? Mostly locals, and a smattering of others, but the Canadians are by far the long distance champs. And, when SM goes National, the ARRCs will be just another regional to them, so the numbers may drop. Of course, I see lots of ITA grids bigger here than I saw at the ARRCs, so our subscription rate is pretty good.

I guess what I'm getting at is if you want to attract distant runners, cash counts. But if it costs more to enter...theres no big incentive unless you think you can win.

So, my recipe is:
- Advertise-buy ads in the other regions publications that don't have a conflicting event.
-Buy ads on popular web sites like this.
-Sponsorship- A great start so far, but cash talks...the more money, the better to hand out at the end.
- Special Prizes. Like a hard charger award. Give guys like me a chance!
- Press - Make the entries marginally higher and choose a charity to give the overage to. State on the entry that X dollars goes to the charity. As a car guy (and neighbor) I often think Paul Newmans Hole in the Wall Gang is ideal. Use the oppurtunity to get the word out to the locla press.
-Track rides...for visiting press folk, in race cars at lunch. I bet we can throw some seats in our cars, add some straps and have some fun. Not at racing speeds, of course! LimeRock has done this, I was there, and it seemed pretty popular! We'd need a skeleton crew on the flag stations and on the flag net. When the worker van goes to pick them up, lunches could be dropped off for those choosing to stay. An extra $20 per remaining flagger wouldn't hurt!

Finally, a NICE simple silver (sterling plated at the least) bowl nicely engraved would beat fake wood and fake brass plaques anyday! (Although I will cherish my fake wood plaque forever! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif )

I really think that events like this a re very possible, but they tke work. Selling sponsorship is KEY, and to do that, the sponsor needs t see his name in a good light. Giving to charity is always a good light.

I'm sure Anthony would be happy to kick in a G or two to have the event marketed and written up in all the local papers as "The NARCC Runoffs presented by The Mechanics Shop of Bedford Hills" or something like that, right Mr ARRC ITA Champ? http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

0100

11-11-2004, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by gran racing:
For the most part the NARRC is viewed as just another race weekend with no more emphasis placed on it. It certainly pales in comparison to the ARRC. What can be done to make more of a "championship" race?

Are we talking the NARRC or the NARRC runoffs?

I think to make the NARRC runoffs more of a "championship" race we need to make the NARRC series better, alot better.

NHIS and LRP is not a very good series to me. Yeah I know we had one weekend at pocono woopdedoo...

1 or 2 races at all the north atlantic tracks would be better. This is the NARRC not the NERRC.

[This message has been edited by 0100 (edited November 11, 2004).]

RKramden

11-12-2004, 01:38 AM

First off, understand that some of this may cause the entry fee to go up, and it's New York Region's call, as they run the race. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

OK, invite only those NARRC drivers that have run at 2 or more NARRC tracks and are currently in the top 2/3rds (maybe 1/2) in points. IIRC, it used to be this way quite some time ago. Greed (or, not losing money) caused NYR to open up the race.

That will cut down a lot of folks, so maybe the entry fee would need to be more than a bit higher.

Also invite the top three in each class in MARRS and NYSRRC (provided they were also in the top half of their class), and turn it into a Area 1,2, 10 shootout.

Also, with fewer cars, maybe we could have less than 10 race groups and actually get some track time. Maybe two or three groups for real race cars and 4 or 5 for those with fenders. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/tongue.gif

RSTPerformance

11-12-2004, 02:39 AM

I have to agree we need more tracks in the NARRC series eventhough NHIS is only 20 minutes for me!!! The series as a whole has been slipping and more races need to be at other tracks I think to bring it back. Although I think that the top 5 is generally well compeated for in each class.

From my understanding it is a regions choice to have a race count towards the NARRC Championship or not... It is not NARRC saying no, we don't want your race to count, it is the regions saying no. I guess this means if you live outside the NER region (where I think every race counts) then get to work go to meetings and have your regions add NARRC championship points to each of your events.

On other notes...

Yes this race used to be by invitation, however I don't like that idea asit would restrict people from outside the northeast from playing with us.

Jake, you need to win a NARRC race http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif, they give out much better trophies than normal and a bottle of champaine rather than water.

Teardowns are a great idea, however as someone mentioned that might be to many teardowns for tech to handle...

Tom- I like the idea of having the "history" of the NARRC Runoffs webpage... anyone have any info or sources to get this info and possibly pictures? (I know I have a few pictures of the 1988 ITA NARRC champion).

And lastly as I mentioned before word of mouth is the best advertizing... great job Kip for getting your bro to come up, if half of us could get a friend from another region to come race think how many people we would have!!!

Raymond "dreaming of a bigger championship" Blethen

[This message has been edited by RSTPerformance (edited November 12, 2004).]

7racing

11-12-2004, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by gran racing:
I personally don't like NARRC season points being a focus of this race. Or even proclaiming the NARRC season champion here. (They have an awards dinner for that already, don't they?) I think putting emphasis on the NARRC points would get away from the race being a bigger / non-regionalized race.

No offense here Dave, but the the event we are discussing is the NARRC Run-offs at LRP in late September, right? The emphasis of this race has been that it is the final NARRC race of the season and is double-points. As someone that follows/competes in the NARRC Championship, I would prefer it remain a NARRC run-offs for double points.

Granted, I might enjoy seeing it as a Championship event, not just a regional within the championship.

I think the history of what this race is needs to be remembered and brought forward.

Where are the old-timers in this thread? I see RKramden, where is Dick, Jack Hanifan, Elder Blethen (I'm sure he can use the RST account)?

Jeremy

Greg Amy

11-12-2004, 11:44 AM

...this race used to be by invitation...

Is this a recent or a very old thing? I raced the NARRC Runoffs in 1992 in SSB (I think I won?), and I don't recall having to get an invitation...

Greg

dickita15

11-12-2004, 11:57 AM

well greg if you ran it must not have been invitational. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif go I can't belive I took such a cheap shot, sorry greg.

seriously, when I first started reading this I rooled my eyes as most people making suggestions do not understand the narrc structure, but as i read on I relized I was getting an interesting insight into what some people would like to see. so keep talking, some of this is impossible at this race but that does not mean that many of these ideas could not be used in some manner.
now I am off to long island for the NE Div convention and the NARRC Meeting.
DicK Patullo

philstireservice

11-12-2004, 12:06 PM

Hey Guys, here is a chance to learn a little from one of the new guys on the block, NASA. I have raced with SCCA for 13 years and never, at any event, have I ever had a so- called awards ceremony at the end of the day's activities. NASA does it at every event after Saturday's races. Along with the food party, they have the announced trophy presentations complete with "trophy babes" and photos. All the racers love it!!!...men and women alike. Also, starting with EMRA as I did back in the 80's, they always have had an awards ceremony after the day's activities. It's not hard to do. It promotes comraderie and sense of appreciation in front of your racing peers. SCCA, in the Northeast, has a great bunch of competitors. Some of the best in the country. We can do this..... This is when we as racers can bond together as a community and enjoy each others triumphs......

------------------
Phil Phillips
2004 Honda Challenge H3
NASA ECHC CHAMPION

www.philstireservice.com

Greg Amy

11-12-2004, 12:29 PM

well greg if you ran it must not have been invitational. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

To paraphrase one wise forum philosopher: "Well, this is a disturbing turn of events..."

http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

dazzlesa

11-12-2004, 02:07 PM

i think we have to create a 10 to 12 race series running during regional races for the north east.we could run one or 2 races at each of these tracks. summit,watkinsglen,nhis,lrp,beaver run,nelson ledges,pocono,vir. there would be a enrollment fee for the year,a points fund fee at each event you run and hopefully some sponser to create a year end prize fund for the top 3.marrs , narrc and nysrrc is too regional to be prestgious.money and magazine coverage brings interest and prestige. just my opinion. rick ITA 06

dpc

11-12-2004, 02:35 PM

Tear downs???? It appears that 1 is to many. dave

lateapex911

11-12-2004, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by dpc:
Tear downs???? It appears that 1 is to many. dave

Why??

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

RKramden

11-13-2004, 04:15 AM

I'd like to clear up some stuff to try to help people understand a bit more, then let people run wild with ideas on how to improve things.

Basically, there is a rules committee/board made up of the RE's of the regions involved. Thats, basically, Area 1 plus MoHud. The RE may defer to others in the region, for example, Dick and Brian M are going to the meeting, and I'll bet they get to say what they want and k.barnes (the RE) pretty much goes along. Kathy is the RE, she runs the region (and IMHO does a super job), but she doesn't micro-manage Racing, Solo or Rally. That is a good thing.

One of the regions does the awards banquet each year, taking turns.

The money for the awards and the checks for the winners (and other high placed drivers) come from a tax. The tax is is something like $6 per entry for all the entries in any NARRC race.

The region (each of them) makes a business decision on if a race they run should be a NARRC race. Basically, does making each race at NHIS make business sense from the viewpoint of attracting more drivers (since it is a NARRC race, and in some cases, a double) vs the cost of having the extra cars (Insurance costs more, and a few other expenses go up a bit.)

In the case of NHIS, NER has made the decision that, yes, it makes business sense to have each race be a NARRC race, so the region pays the NARRC committee the $$$ for each car. Thats your prize money.

One exception was when we had the "Track time is King" races a few years ago. At NHIS, we had practice/qualifying in the AM, and a regional race in the PM that set the grid for the Sunday race. The Sunday race was a NARRC race, but the race the day before was not. It could of been, if the region wanted to pay a second NARRC fee for each car, since drivers would have gotten NARRC points for each race. As it ended up, they did get NERRC points for both because that costs the region nothing extra, but only Sunday was NARRC. Simple business decision.

So, if you want a NARRC race at the Glen, then show either Glen Region of Finger Lakes region why it is a sound business decision (e.g. it will get them lots more entries) to pay the NARRC fees. If you do that, then I'm sure that the NARRC committee will gladly expand the schedule to accomedate them.

I hope that helps people understand what some of the forces driving NARRC are.

Given the above (which is not 100% correct, but I thing it is close) how would you change the structure to get other regions to hold NARRC events, and how do you not hurt regions like NER if you restrict the number of NARRC races that they can hold at NHIS?

And if it is two races at a track, the which two regions get to have their regional at Lime Rock be a NARRC race?

What is the business plan to transition from the current cash flow model to the new one without each region taking it in the shorts in a financial sense?

Just some things to think about when you have (good) ideas.

dazzlesa

11-13-2004, 09:36 AM

it sounds like taking away dates will not work.how can we talk to the narrc commitee to add events with other regions.im sure no one wants to hurt regions or the people who help us race, but it would be nice to open it up to more people and tracks.

gran racing

11-13-2004, 10:38 AM

No offense here Dave, but the the event we are discussing is the NARRC Run-offs at LRP in late September, right? The emphasis of this race has been that it is the final NARRC race of the season and is double-points. As someone that follows/competes in the NARRC Championship, I would prefer it remain a NARRC run-offs for double points.

Yeah, I know. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif I was just hoping for a ARRC similar event here up north. I love the hype and attention the ARRC gets and how it draws people from many various areas.

------------------
Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

RSTPerformance

11-13-2004, 02:41 PM

dazzlesa-

I don't think you need to convince the NARRC commity, you need to convince the other regions...

Here is one bit of convincing to use... I ONLY race in NARRC events, the GLen Enduro, and the ARRC (I didn't run the Glen this year cause it was not part of NARRC and didn't have the "extra" $$$). Same with my brother. That means if other tracks had NARRC events you would see 2 more cars at those events and yes we would have made the tow, we did it to Pocono. You can use us as an example of last year what would have been but don't count on us next year as everything is still up in the air on what we will do.

Look up how many other people run most of the NARRC series and see if they run those "other" events. Call them and see if they would go to those other tracks you are interested in adding(If they were a NARRC event). Then go to a Comp board meetig and present your findings. Maybe that will convince the region to have a NARRC race.

I think that if you get some "down south" (VIR, summit, etc.) races you will see a much closer points battle even if people are not willing to travel, as you will get more "winners." That might get more people who may never have raced each other to go to the NARRC as whomever wins would win the champion.

Raymond

RKramden

11-13-2004, 10:10 PM

If you do the math, it takes about 8-10 extra cars to make it worth making a race a NARRC race. That is the money side of it.

I was rather shocked by how few cars are needed to hit break even

8 or 10 cars isn't a whole lot.

If the Glen was added as a NARRC race, then there would be a points bonus for running at yet another track, a reason why some of those crusty New Englanders would make the tow out there.

The math:

$200 entry fee, for 200 cars. $6 times 200 is a $1200 NARRC fee.

I assumed that the incremental cost was about $60 per car, and that is high.

So, profit per additional car is about $140.

Thats 8.5 cars to recover the cost, less if the incremental costs are lower. If the Incremental costs are about $40, then thats only 7.5 cars. If the entry fee is higher (like $230) then the break even car count drops even more to just over 6 cars.

(Note, Glen charged $210 this year and FL charged $225.)

lateapex911

11-13-2004, 10:36 PM

I remember looking at the NARRC schedule one time and thinking it wasn't much of a series!

The name sounds impressive, but the schedule isn't!

If it6 were to match its name it would run at NHIS, LRP, WGI, Summit and VIR...

oh...and Pocono...I suppose.... http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/rolleyes.gif

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

Pellegrino Family

11-14-2004, 01:05 AM

Raymond and Stephen,
You have a 25 year history of LRP at your house and I have one too. Let's collaborate on working on a NARRC history. Tom is correct, there was a tremendous amount of prestige in the NARRC Runoffs back when. When your Dad ran the NARRC Runoff that he won in the rain in the Capri, the NARRC champion was determined ONLY by who won that race. It didn't matter how many points you had in the year. For a matter of fact, Norm Latullippe had the most points in ITA that year. The points determined whether or not you were "invited" -- that is, got an entry form for the event. No entry form in the mail, you weren't invited. You had to run at least two of the tracks (Pocono and Bridgehampton were also on the schedule) as well as LRP and back then, Bryar (now NHIS). It was a smaller turnout, yes, but much tougher racing.
I agree, if NYR added the Glen to the series and NNJR another Pocono weekend, it would draw many more. Plus adding Thursday as a practice day and Friday being simply qualifying might help also.
I'd be happy to do a history on it. I believe that there is one in existance at NNJR and I know the History of LRP has some history in it as well.
Trish

Andy Bettencourt

11-14-2004, 10:06 AM

Preliminary NARRC Contingency Plan from Flatout Motorsports:

We currently run in two primary classes, SM and ITS. This is where we will focus the payout.

$250 to the "Hard Charger" in each of the two classes. HC is defined as the most positions advanced from Grid/Qual spot to official race finsih results. Tie goes to better qualifying position.

Eligibility? Run two small FOM stickers on your car...

Thoughts? The idea was to create something a little different but something that was been successful in series like Speed World Challenge...

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITS RX-7 and ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com

lateapex911

11-14-2004, 01:46 PM

Good job Flat Out!
(And BIG kudos for making it cash (nad a solid amount too!))

I once won the hard charger award at the OMP deal...$100 in gas at Lime Rock.

Which is like $50 anywhere else, but that's cool.....so, I went to get some gas, but they were out of the stuff I run in my race car. I went back later but the guy was on a break. Then he closed....finally when I got there and he was there, the thing was expired!

My fault of course, but hats off to F.O. and cash prizes with out a lot of BS!

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

RSTPerformance

11-14-2004, 09:42 PM

What do you folks think of this

The NARRC championship is decided by total points. Each region can have 1 event at as many tracks as feasible. Example NER has evaents at NHIS, LRP, Watkins Glen, Pocono.
NY region has events atLRP , WatkinsGlen, Pocono. MoHud does LRP, Summit Point etc
You get the regions that are involved to pick races that they want to count to the
championship.
Now lets make it interesting

The NARRC RUNOFFS is double points but also special trophies, prizes & contingencies.

Only the top 10 in NARRC points are invited,
the others are probably out of the chase.

NOW

The top 10 at lasr years ARRC are invited.
As are the top 10 in MARRS, NYSRRC etc across
the country.

This is not to take anything from the ARRC

Road Atlanta works better than LRP as a venue
for a national championship race,however, if you are in the top 10 in your region you are
good enough to join us.

The NARRC RUNOFFS have been a premier event for many years. I would like it to be the
premier event in the northeast

Tom

JeffYoung

11-14-2004, 11:10 PM

Not to but in (an SEDiv guy), but our SIC (Southeast Invitational Challenge) is a pretty big deal. Here's how we do it:

a. Invitation only, but invitation is sent to any one who ran at least 3 SARRC events in a season. I think this is the right kind of threshold -- doesn't keep anyone out on points, just a participation requirement.

b. Here's teh kicker: the SIC "pays" double points over a regular SARRC race. Taht's a pretty big deal and often results in the championship being decided at teh SARRC.

Works for us.

7racing

11-15-2004, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by gran racing:
Yeah, I know. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif I was just hoping for a ARRC similar event here up north. I love the hype and attention the ARRC gets and how it draws people from many various areas.

Now that I can understand and agree with. A big race up here would be great.

Jeremy

JackH55

11-15-2004, 08:32 PM

Old Timer?

Well - some comments. NARRC is composed of the Regions that race at LRP. NER, Mo-Hud NYR and NNJR. Those regions can also have races at other tracks ie. NNJR at Pocono, NER at NHIS etc. In the past The NARRC committe composed of each RE and a Driver Rep have voted to allow other regions to have a NARRC race ie Tri-Region at Pocono and Glen at WGI.
NARRC is for all SCCA classes and NARRC recognized classes ie NARRC Club Ford, Club FC etc.
Remember ARRC is billed as a National Championship for those classes not invited to the SCCA National Championships. There are only about 8 classes in 4 Race Groups.
It would be kind of difficult to have 2 National Championships for Regional Cars.
NYR controls the NARRC Runoffs and with the new track rental rates they could not afford to limit the entries.
The offers of sponsorship are great ways to increase prestige.
As an old timer, I guess I would not change anything as far as format but work to get things like sponsorhip.
Rembember we have 3 other Regional Racing Championships in NeDiv- MARRS, NYSRRC and Kryder Racing.

NYSRRC runs at Watkins Glen, Pocono, Nelson Ledges, Lime Rock and this year had a race at NHIS with NER.

Jack

0100

11-16-2004, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by JackH55:

NYSRRC runs at Watkins Glen, Pocono, Nelson Ledges, Lime Rock and this year had a race at NHIS with NER.

Jack

WOW, to me the NYSRRC looked to be a better series... at least to me. All they need to due is add summit point, beaverun, and VIR to the list to have an awesome series. But why would they, they are the NYSRRC not the NARRC. Now the North Atlantic RRC on the other hand should have all these tracks, either that or change the name.

0100

11-16-2004, 12:35 AM

I'll have to look at all the series 2005 scheduals to decide which series I will run next year. I hope it is the NARRC and I hope it will be great.

RSTPerformance

11-16-2004, 03:04 AM

Originally posted by 0100:
WOW, to me the NYSRRC looked to be a better series... at least to me. All they need to due is add summit point, beaverun, and VIR to the list to have an awesome series. But why would they, they are the NYSRRC not the NARRC. Now the North Atlantic RRC on the other hand should have all these tracks, either that or change the name.

0100, The NARRC doesn't decide what tracks it will run at. YOU DO. go to the regions and show them how the extra $6.00 will make it a better event and why they should consider it a NARRC event as well as there own region.

Stephen

[This message has been edited by RSTPerformance (edited November 16, 2004).]