New Road Course in New England & no SCCA dates

[Dave Patten]

That's right, a 3.3 mile road course, Valley Motorsports Park, is in the final stages of permitting in Tamworth, NH. Ground breaking is expected within a month. The facility owned by Club Motorsports, Inc. (CMI) is being established as a motorsports country club with memberships. The track is being designed by Alan Wilson to comply with SCCA standards. Track rental will be available to outside groups as well (PCA, BMWCCA, VSCCA, etc). Scheduled opening was to have been the Fall of 2004, but delays for re-designs to meet the political bureaucracy will make the facility's opening Spring/Summer of 2005.

Information can be found on the CMI's website.
http://www.clubmotorsports.com

Alan Wilson's Site
http://www.wilsonmotorsport.com/default.htm

Here is the rub for SCCA racing at the facility. No SCCA dates have been reserved. CMI has contacted the New England Region of SCCA (NER) about booking dates for track rental. The NER Road Racing Board has adopted a wait and see attitude before making any commitment or deposit to secure any dates at an un-built facility. NER wants to see the facility fully operational before committing to dates.

Generally, the regional Board of Directors and /or regional Road Racing Boards make the actual contracts with the tracks and set schedules. These Boards need driver input as to what facilities we want to race at and how frequently. These Boards need and generally do not receive input until something goes horribly wrong.

I'm concerned that NER-SCCA's wait and see approach is horribly wrong. CMI is booking dates for a facility that has yet to be constructed for a $500 refundable deposit. These dates are being renewed for the 2005 season. These are preferred dates and if NER-SCCA waits until the facility is 100% operational these preferred dates will be spoken for.

SCCA has NO dates reserved as of this date. If you race in the Northeast and want to see a new date at a new track, please express your concerns and contact:

NER's RRB Chairman, Brian Mushnick at [email protected] or 508-954-8110
NER Regional Executive, Kathy Barnes at [email protected] or 860-875-0254

If dates are not secured now, I fear only early Spring and late Fall dates will be available. It is not very warm in Northern New Hampshire at that time of year.


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Dave Patten
Dunbarton, NH

[JohnRW]

You can't race on a 'paper track'.

Not a thimble-full of dirt has moved yet. No permits have been issued. If ground-breaking is (optimistically...) thought to be in a month or so, there is no way in hell it will be operational by next spring or summer.

Many a 'paper track' has come and gone in the past 15 to 20 years. Many people have paid 'refundable' deposits for track dates and memberships, that then became vapor when the owners/organizers fell into insolvency. Anybody here want to publish a list of tracks in the N.E. that were planned/announced/about-to-be-built in the last decade ? Sort them any way you'd like - alphabetically, by length, by # or corners, by zip code...it's still a really long list.

In addition, fitting races into the existing NEDiv SCCA schedule is quite a project. Planning for the 2005 season won't begin until mid-fall, and trying to fit in a date at a track that doesn't exist/isn't built/may not ever be built, is really a stretch.

IMO, New England Region is just being careful with their members' funds. I wish Valley Motorsports Park good luck, but I agree with NER on this one.

[MMiskoe]

I tend to agree with the BoD, if you compare what the press releases say with what is happening in Tamworth, you'll find that the schedule is a bit optimistic to say the least. Having talked to EMRA members who have had similar experiences with tracks not ever getting built, the first question is "do you have any open lawsuits". If not, go on to question #2, "do you have all your permits". If yes, then consider signing up.

The other rumor I had heard was that since the course is set up finaincially like a golf country club, paying members are granted open use of it through out the season. This does not allow for the track to be 100% rented out, leaving us types to use what ever section of track they give us, but not to race on the whole thing.

[clubmotorsports]

Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Tom Murphy and I am the VP of Sales for www.clubmotorsports.com (http://www.clubmotorsports.com) .

To answer some of the questions/issues

1) Not a thimble full of dirt has been moved. True. We do have to wait for the permits.

This is definitely a work in progress. We will be open next year assuming we get our permits.

2) No permits yet. True, but we expect the state permits within 30 days, could be sooner.

3) Being careful with the money. We have rented (taken a deposit) the track for over 90 dates so far. As you can imagine, the early bird gets the best dates. We are not getting rich taking $500 deposits. It is strictly so that people hve skin in the game.

4) Paper track. Definitely true today, but we have only been at this for 20 months or so. I do not know of anyone who is closer to being operational in all of New England than CMI is.

5) Cannot race the entire (3+ mile track). This is not strictly true. I have presented to the NER BOD and they asked this question. I told them that I would be willing to work with them on the rental of the entire track to them. We have rented the entire track to one other organization.

If I missed any other question/issue, please feel free to post/call or email and i will do my best to answer.

Regards,
Tom
[email protected]
603 437 3278 x 206

[clubmotorsports]

Sorry, forgot one issue.

If renting the track in 2005 is too hard due to schedule, I have offered to work with them for 2006. There is no question in my mind that we will be open.

Regards,
Tom

[RSTPerformance]

I personally think that we should be willing to give a non-refundable $500 to Tom and his team. We need to create a friendly and open relationship with him. If we wait for the track to open we have done nothing to help them. I think everyone that lives close enough to Tamworth that is an NER member should go up and do something to help out. We have spent 30+ thousand on a facility of our own and we don't even have any property. For 500 bucks we can establish a date to race! I am 100% for securing a date. I think we should rent the entire track and have our own NER runnoffs up there. Then rent out there clubhouse for a wonderful catered event and have the year-end banquet at the last event!! Maybe make it a three-day event with practice/qual. on Friday then the races on Saturday then a few couple hr endures for all race groups while they tally up the year end results on Sunday. Then Sunday around 3 have our banquet. OK so I have digressed but either way we need to build a good relationship now... if anything we have already dropped the ball on this.

Being an NER member I am volunteering to do anything that NER asks of me or that Tom asks of me to help build a good relationship.


PS: Tom is there anyway that NER members can have a tour in Tamworth of your facility and your plans. Maybe if we could set up a date for several people to come up and then publish it we could get more people interested in the facility.

Stephen

[JohnRW]

[This message has been edited by JohnRW (edited July 19, 2004).]

[ITSRX7]

There are many, many factors that have gone into the BoD's decision that people are not aware of.

Just to address one quick one that Stephen suggested - rental of the whole track - if even possible - it would be cost prohibitive for a Regional in this area, as well as virtually impossible to staff with the amount of workers needed to run the event - you know how many corner workers you would need for a track that size?

Anyway, if you would like to learn where the Board stands, please join us an our meetings and request it as an agenda item. 2nd Wed of each month. They are open to all.

BTW: Tom and his team are great people with a great plan and I see a nice partnership in the future.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[RSTPerformance]

Andy- I herd a rumor that they would supply the corner workers??? is that true tom??? If so that is one issue out of the way.

Everyone- The other issue I see is a lack of interest to travel so far for a race. I dount doubt that the facility would be more of a "true" road course and that people will enjoy driving it more, just the added travel time and $$$ might drive people away... thus lower demand and high rental fees will drive up entry fees, thus turning away even more people.

On the plus side, maybe we can recruite a few more of the hillclimb and rally nuts!!!

Maybe my bro's idea isn't bad... a late in the season frigid championship race that attracted a lot of people... That date wouldn't be a "peak date" might cost less, and we still would have time to make sure they get all the permits http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Raymond "Looking forward to a new place close bye http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif" Blethen

PS: I don't think our $500.00 deposit is really an issue, if the track really needs that money, it will never get finished... $500.00 is just a drop in the bucket when building a track. I think the track and SCCA probably realizes that when the track is finished we will get dates. Both parties would be crazy to not think that IMO.

[gran racing]

Depending on how the track is laid out, I'd definately be interested. I personally am not a big fan of NHIS; would rather make the drive to the Glen. But of course I would rather another track in CT. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

And yes, when building just about anything there are always delays. I was totally psyched for the EMRA Shannadoah (sp?) but it got canceled since it wasn't complete.

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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[MMiskoe]

Dave - any possibility of getting you to send an email address so I can ask you a different topic question? Didn't get to find you this weekend.

Thanks
Matt Miskoe
[email protected]

[gran racing]

Sure...

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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[Jake]

Too long? Isn't the Glen even longer? They seem to get corner-workers up there.

[lateapex911]

Not really...it's not every race at the Glen that uses the whole track.

It's not just about the length either, but the number of stations that need to be staffed. more corners often means more stations....

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[gran racing]

How many corner workers would be needed for this track? As a comparison, how many are needed for VIR, the Glen (long track), Summit Pt. and Road Atlanta?



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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[clubmotorsports]

I see that quite a few responses have piled up so I will attempt to answer them. As usual, please feel free to call or email if I miss your question.

1) Corner workers. Yes, we are supplying them to every other club that has rented the facility.

2) Yes, I told the BOD that we could discuss a reduction in the cost if you supplied your own. This is not something we want to do for everyone forever since one of the attractions to the town was the employment prospect. In order to attract the SCCA, we are willing to discuss this.

3) Clubhouse and other amenities - Just want to make it clear that we are putting all of our effort into the Asphalt first. so depending on when (if?) the SCCA books a date 2005 or 2006, the amenities will be different. I will tell you that I told the BOD that we would put out the red carpet for you. Obviously, the reasons are that we know that some of you will join as members and we hope you book multiple track days from us.

4) Three day event - I do not want to throw cold water on anyone but if that is your thinking, doing a three day event is something that needs to be discussed well in advance for everyone. We do have a three day event in 2005 and 2006 (motorcycle) but there were lots of negotiations. Since we are a "country club" first, we need to make sure we do not OVERLY displace our members.

5) Tour - yes. I offered to have an SCCA day where as many members of SCCA as are interested can come up and see the facility. It is just dirt now but we are planning a ground breaking ceremony in August.

6) To Address Andy Bettencourts post - As above, we can supply the corner workers, we can augment the force and if you only rented the 1.4 mile track, it should be similiar to other tracks you have run

As to a decision being made by the BOD, I ask ANDY, has one been made? Because if it has, It would have been nice to let me know. That is what is done in polite company.

I do appreciate the kind words as to the partnership and I hope that the BOD has reached a decision and that decision is to investigate moving the partnership closer to reality.

I having been talking to Dave Patten (phone and email) and my concern is that we have rented a lot of dates to a lot of clubs AT A DISCOUNT and my concern is that when the SCCA is interested, that all of the good dates will be gone. We also gave discounts off of memberships to COM, BMW and Porsche clubs. We would like to offer a discount to SCCA as well.


Regards,
Tom
[email protected]
603 437 3278 x206

[clubmotorsports]

Reread and realized that I missed the comment about NHIS. I wanted to make a point about safety on that.

Since this is a "Paper track" we get to do things right. By right I mean runoff, then kitty litter, then tire walls then fence. it also means Corner worker stations, hard lines, radio and Video monitoring of the entire track.

We want to make this the safest track possible.

Some of you may have heard to the motorcyle tragedy in turn 3? at NHIS on the 7th or 8th. Because we are a paper track, we can make sure that that type of accident does not occur at our facility.

Our goal is to make this a fun (exciting) and safe place to drive.

regards,
Tom

[bill f]

Don't corner workers have to be licensed by the SCCA...actually, usually members of the regions that are using the track? As a Registrar, I have to examine those licenses at each event. How does the track have "Workers" that are not SCCA licensed workers, that would not be available also to the region renting the track?

One of the problems confronting sponsoring regions that host an event, is that those corner workers are spread out at other SCCA events, or even CART/NASCAR events. How many times have you heard complements on TV about the source of the "volunteers" that are manning the corners of that particular event?

A note about the Glen: They have a worker problem very frequently, in that they are not able to utilize the "long" course (all too many times each year) due to not having enough workers. My partner stopped racing there due to the uncertainty of which track configuration would be raced. We enjoy the long course, and find the short course boring compared to other avialable venues. Racers always found out about the worker shortage after arrival, or on the day of the event, if it was a two day event.

As an official of a region, would I speculate with the membership's money? As a board member of NER would I speculate with the region's money? Very difficult question to address from afar (Western New York Region SCCA member, myself), but my answer would be thus:
If the property IS purchased in a realistically appropriate area for racing ...and the permits HAVE BEEN filed and paid for...perhaps if a "letter of intent" is avialable to the Region's officers...I would speculate with the money.

Only because there are times when "speculation" is worthwile. It can be defended to the membership if it is done "carefully".

Isn't any "new" regional race date actually speculative? WNY had a somewhat similar, but, very different problem decades ago, with the new date attemped for a regional. It worked out well, but at the time, much more money on the block. Our leadership was challenged by one member who offered to front the "nut money", and accept the profit or loss for the event. WNY actually decided to accept the risk, and the event turned out to be very successful.

Just my humble opinion, of course. If this was in WNY's back yard, I'd get $100 from each of my fellow racers (or some amount smaller from more people), and throw it in the pot just to progress past this discussion point...provided that the above conditions, and possibly others that I haven't thought of, were in place.

Best of luck with YOUR decision, guys and gals.

Good racing.

Bill

[This message has been edited by bill f (edited July 20, 2004).]

[clubmotorsports]

Bill,

Some good points there. I will only handle the corner workers.

Because we are a country club for auto and bike enthusiasts, we have to have our own corner workers. It is absolutely our intention to have them trained and licensed by the SCCA because we believe this is the best training they can get.

When COM or BMW come to our facility in the future, they are grateful that we supply the corner workers.

In discussions that I have had with SCCA, it is been indicated to me that they wanted to use "their own corner workers". As I said in a previous post, we are willing to do that for SCCA when discussing a track date.

If the SCCA wanted to rent the entire track, we could augment the corner workers.

We are more than willing to discuss this and more.

Regards,
Tom

[sccaflagger74]

To add briefly to the corner worker discussion... A lot of tracks (most?) have their own corner workers. Some do no more than sit on a chair with a radio and yellow flag. Some, however, also flag with the SCCA. There are several flaggers at Lime Rock who flag during the week for the track (a way to keep busy during retirement and make some extra cash) then flag with the SCCA on weekends.

Also, to flag an SCCA event you must be an SCCA member. Likewise, to flag a non-SCCA event at some tracks (the Glen for example) you must be a member of the local flagging club...usually just a small fee.

Cheers,

Bob Lindenmuth
Philly Region
F&C

(btw, I say send in the deposit... what a beautiful part of the country for a race track!)

[EV]

Don't forget, SCCA has to approve the track before it will sanction an event. I have heard that it can from 2-6 months to get approval.

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Enjoy,
Bill

[stevel]

The other issue is cost to rent the track. I remember seeing the track rental cost on there site and I swear it was at least twice what NHIS costs. Most likely it was more than that. LRP is expensive enough for me. If it costs $300 (just a number thrown out there) for an entry fee I won't be heading up there.

I do see that Tom mentioned a discount to clubs, hopefully the discount is substantial enough to keep entry fees near or below what LRP costs.

steve


[This message has been edited by stevel (edited July 24, 2004).]

[lateapex911]

This brings up an interesting situation.

CMS want to have SCCA certified and liscenced corner workers.

SCCA does the legwork and sinks resources into training them and so on.

Will CMS be paying for the workers when they flag for CMS events? (I would assume so, since the track is a profit making venture that they will have to pay their staff)

I assume CMS will have events as often as possible; they will certainly want as many events on the weekends as possible. Staffing two tracks at once will require a large pool of workers.

Will this result in putting the SCCA in the non enviable position of extending resources to train workers, then lose them to a more tempting (read paying) position at CMS?

Is there a potential that the SCCAs worker ranks could be diminihed? (or that these workers will choose to "work" at CMS instead of "volunteer" at conflicting SCCA events?)

Or will more new workers surface in an attempt to be trained for a paying position at the track.

Just thinking out loud here. I wonder what the net/net will be. I do however, see a conflict of interest looming for the Region.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited July 24, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited July 25, 2004).]

[Renaultfool]

It is always nice to see a new track being built somewhere!
You must also take into consideration the SCCA scheduling problems that may come up if the track does not open. If you put up $500 and the track does not open, ok not too big a loss, refundable, whatever.
If you put your one race for the year at that track and it does not open, you most likely will not have a race that year. Your old venue will not hold your date open for you, they are a business, they will rent to someone else. You will simply go a year without a race. We have found it very difficult to try and get a date changed or new date added after the division schedule is set.
I would suggest you keep your traditional date and venue and try and schedule an extra event at the new proposed/under construction track. If it happens it would be a nice bonus. Good luck with the divisional scheduling folks.